dwr. Best bang for the dollar????

[fatnslow]

All you experts of waterproofing variety please step forward. I need to treat the whole damn family wardrobe for the season so we don't get frostbite on our asses on the lift sitting on 31 degree snow in the beautiful NW. What is the best option out there ? Price? Quality?

[XXX-er]

I did a highly scientific comparison of 2 leading spray ons which means ... I ran out of product

So I washed my arcteryx beta shell, sprayed half in granger half in revivex right down the middle, wear for 1 year AND almost no difference I could tell, I think I got some nikwax spray on kicking around here right now which is also good, so IME all the spray-ons work & cost about the same

wash in may be cheaper for a large crew but I don't think it works as well as spray on

watch the overspray it will make the floor very slippery, or if you do it outside on a wood deck you get the out line of an arcterxy shell right next to your BBQ

[old goat]

Wash in is reputed to block the pores in Goretex and other membranes, rendering them non breathable.

[zeroforhire]

I get this stuff from Walmart. Mine comes in a smaller amount. It works great. Cheap too.
http://www.atsko.com/1338q.html

[GeezerSteve]

That's detergent, not DWR.

As old goat says, the problem with wash-in is that it coats the inside of the fabric. Stick to spray-on. Do not expect factory-DWR performance.

ETA: IME the best DIY DWR product is 303 High Tech Fabric Guard. Flouro-based, apply to clean dry garment, air dry for a couple hours then throw in the dryer on low.

[zeroforhire]

^ true. It does seem to revive the factory dwr quite well though. Unless your shell is absolutely trashed with years of neglect, this detergent should suit you fine. Remember to run the shell through the dryer for a bit... Be careful and make sure you don't let the shell sit still against the hot dryer walls. (This could melt it). The heat works wonders at reviving the factory dwr.

[GeezerSteve]

^ true. It does seem to revive the factory dwr quite well though. Unless your shell is absolutely trashed with years of neglect, this detergent should suit you fine.

IME, 2 or 3 brushy approaches abrades off factory DWR

[XXX-er]

also I understand the wash-in is not good on a piece with any lining or internal quilting ?

I am pretty sure the spray-on is all the same shit no matter which brand and they all seem to cost about the same

[zeroforhire]

IME, 2 or 3 brushy approaches abrades off factory DWR

Good to know. I have found the quality of dwr varies widely by company. For some reason patagonia has always had the best stuff in my experience.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

This is the Atsko product you want-http://www.atsko.com/waterproofing/clothing/1336x.html

[GeezerSteve]

I am pretty sure the spray-on is all the same shit no matter which brand

Nope. There are different formulas out there. Some are solvent-based and some are water-based (e.g., Nikwax). Some are fluoro-based, others are fluoro-free.

IME, the most effective DWR treatments are solvent-based fluoro, e.g., Revivex, 303 High Tech Fabric Guard.

[fatnslow]

Seems like any time products are available in solvent based vs. aqueous it's usually the solvent based that is the more durable.

[XXX-er]

every spray on I have ever seen available at a retail out door store including revivex, grangers, nikwax is water based

I havent seen 303 high tech for sale but they say there is no silicone which perhaps means not water based?

[Bronco]

So which gear manufacturer uses the best DWR from the factory? Seems to be a difference between my arcteryx and north face wind shirts.

[zeroforhire]

So which gear manufacturer uses the best DWR from the factory? Seems to be a difference between my arcteryx and north face wind shirts.

In my experience, Patagonia uses long lasting dwr.

[GeezerSteve]

every spray on I have ever seen available at a retail out door store including revivex, grangers, nikwax is water based

My aerosol can of Revivex is solvent-based.

[XXX-er]

hmmm everything I ever seen for sale is in a pump spray ... I do live in a forgien country

[Cocximus]

Wash in is reputed to block the pores in Goretex and other membranes, rendering them non breathable.

Dunno, but I read nothing really sticks to these membranes, therefore the pores don't clog.

I did a crap load of research last year and I found a 3M product for carpets that came by the gallon and the WHMIS sheet contained the same stuff as granger WHMS sheet. I never got to try it,

[GeezerSteve]

hmmm everything I ever seen for sale is in a pump spray ... I do live in a forgien [sic] country

Yes

[XXX-er]

You read my mind cuz I was gona ask you for a link, never seen that stuff up here ... thanx for that!

[Timberridge]

You read my mind cuz I was gona ask you for a link, never seen that stuff up here ... thanx for that!

I think this is one of those moments that calls for...

[swissiphic]

Bumping an old thread.

Where are we these days with DWR? Anything new under the sun?

also

Wondering if there's a product that's super durable and not necessarily breathable...my thinking is this: the areas of my jacket that always seem to lose DWR really fast, like after a week of coastal storm weather ski touring, don't need breathability, just DWRness. The tops of the shoulders, upper back, neck and elbows, cuffs of arms. There's no breathing of fabric happening with a soggy pack on back at the contact points, but sure would be great if the face fabric of jacket doesn't turn into a soggy sponge in those locations.

Thoughts/opinions?

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

Wondering if there's a product that's super durable and not necessarily breathable...my thinking is this: the areas of my jacket that always seem to lose DWR really fast, like after a week of coastal storm weather ski touring, don't need breathability, just DWRness. The tops of the shoulders, upper back, neck and elbows, cuffs of arms. There's no breathing of fabric happening with a soggy pack on back at the contact points, but sure would be great if the face fabric of jacket doesn't turn into a soggy sponge in those locations.

Thoughts/opinions?

I have same thoughts. I usually ski in Saga Monarch jacket that costed like 100$ and has their own 3 layer tech. Jacket material is is really sturdy and feels more like thick oilcloth However, can't complain about the waterproofness, it's on point. And if I need it to breathe, I just use armpit zippers. IMO it's perfect for resort skiing. But I won't try touring in it.

[cmcrawfo]

I have been using 303 fabric guard as a DWR, going on 3 years now, on a variety of jackets / pants.

Cant say that I have noticed any change in the garments breath-ability. But its easy to use and fairly cost effective.

[XXX-er]

Doing a lot of drysuit repair work nowdays for BIG RESCUE which is a similar app to ski gear except you can really get way more wet

I would say all the dry suit makers are either using Gortex and then there is everthing else

Some kind of almost Goretex where the membrane might almost not delaminate from the face fabric, might almost not leak, where the mfger is almost doing a good job of taping seams

IMO you get what you pay for


The spray-in DWR renew can be water based and all the brands cost/work about the same

or solvent based which is suposed to work better but I havent used it much cuz its harder to buy at a local store