"Black" Toe - How the hell do you prevent this?

[ill-advised strategy]

You had your foot removed???

I'm retarded.

[leroy jenkins]

call me fucking crazy (maybe retarded fits better) but once the black toe developes i've always been a fan of just skiing harder so it gets more beat up and falls off quicker. no more nail no problem. Also, this is one of the few things smoking pot actually helps with skiing wise.

[coreshot-tourettes]

Two weeks ago, I hucked a few cliffs on Vail's frontside and at the end of the day, big toenail was all black. I think it was from landing too far back from 20' or so. Iced it, didn't help. It hurt for the next three days. Then I decided to try the hot-needle trick.

So I put together:
-rubbing alcohol
-safety pin
-visegrips
-lighter

I cleaned the toe, then used the lighter to heat the pin red hot while holding it with the pliers. Took a deep breath, took left foot in right hand, bent it up in front of me, and with left hand pushed a red-hot needle through the center of the toenail. Eh, this isn't going to workHOLYSHIT and with a "pssst" a jet of blood and pus shoots two feet out of my toenail.

Got it cleaned up, and thought the nail was OK. Felt a lot better.

Yesterday, my toenail fell off in the shower. Oh well. If it grows back ingrown I may go to the doc to take care of it.

[LaramieSkiBum]

put a hole in mine, didn't fall off, and doesn't hurt anymore. Even in my boot. Maybe I'll ski a few more weeks before I get the toe box ground out.

[p-tex]

As counter intuitive as it seems the most common cure is to get a smaller boot. Really depends on the cause and many suggestions are made here but someone mentioned a tight enough boot to hold you in place and most often this is what is lacking resulting in black toe.

what L7 said plus maybe you're in too stiff a boot which will tend to put you back.

[Shepherd Wong]

I would make sure your boots are tight enough, and make sure to ski them at full tightness even if you're just taking a wussy run.
Not tightening my boots all the way thinking I was just going to cruise around was the main way I got black toe.

[Tuckerman]

Why do we need nails on our big toes anyhow?

Climbing trees.

[pappag]

That time of the year already.


Left big toenail has been black for close to two months and finally decided to clean out some of the black stuff underneath the nail. Top half of the nail is flappy, but I'm hoping cuticle cream will help restore some strength.

[hoarhey]

Had to do this for the first time this past week.
Cause was foot moving around in boot b/c I went with plug liners in a non-plug boot.

Used a 2 mm drill bit (disinfect with Hydrogen peroxide alternated with flame).
Once you go through, push fluids out, working towards new hole.
Location of drilling, just above cuticle.
I admit, I had others do the "drilling"
Daily soaks warm water and epsom salts with regular applications of neosporin.
Keep covered with a band-aid.

[ODHGABFE]

Long live the black toe thread..

Do you need to 'plug' the hole you've made after it has stopped leaking? Will it plug itself?

Also, a good tip for first-timers: don't let the hot needle sit in the nail too long, otherwise it will stick there, and you'll freak out for a moment.

[snoweater]

I've been shedding toe-nails every summer for years running Lange boots. I like my boots tight as hell, and really couldn't get a boot-fitter to make a bigger boot fit tight enough to prevent the inevitable toe-pound.
However, i haven't had the dead-nail for about 3 years now. Since i got some Nordica - Speedmachine 14's. I got them smaller than i was used to, then put in a heel cup and custom footbed to raise the heel and pull the toes back away from the end just enough to stop the toe-bang. I fit these myself, and it took a bit of work to get the footbed flat/comfortable after raising the heel, but it was VERY worth the effort. I would pay a fitter in the future to make this adjustment, it's way better than the hot-pin solution after the fact.
Also, i've noticed that making adjustments mid-season after the toe is already bruised wont' feel like it helped much since the damage has been done. It needs to be done at the beginning of the season with a fresh new toe-nail!

[ill-advised strategy]

so glad I just did the permanent removal. I remember this shit being such a pain in the ass. never again!

[Spats]

Black toes = bad bootfitting. 99% of bootfitters put people in boots that are too short. See my post on Heretical Bootfitting Theory:

http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107763

[snoweater]

^^^ +1.

Make sure your ankle and instep are a snug fit, and don't size down if it don't fit, fill in volume space with inserts (heel, footbed, etc.)
IMO, sizing down to reduce volume is the main cause of black toe, along with packed-out liners and leaning back too much.

[Nathan Explosion]

I lost one at the end of last season, and the new one hasn't completely grown back in. I'm getting some pain at the end of the day where the new nail gets pushed into the nailbed between it and the end of my foot. Is that normal? I'm in super tight boots, probably what did it in the first place, though it never happened with the other foot. 10.5 foot in a 26.5 Salomon plug shell, about a half finger behind my heel.

[SchralphMacchio]

Just take a regular needle, sterilize it, and slide it right under the nail from the front of the toe back into the pool of blood underneath. Remove needle, push on nail from back, and drain.

Rarely hurts if you keep the needle up on the underside of the nail, doesn't leave a hole, etc, etc.

ahhh, the sweet feeling of bloody orange stuff draining onto a clean gauze ... next time I'll remember to cut my damn nails before going on a 30 mile backpacking trip!

[Spats]

about a half finger behind my heel.

Well, there's your problem right there. You will lose toenails as long as you ski those boots.

I have no idea why people are willing to put themselves through that sort of pain. If you need to size a boot down that far, you are most likely in the wrong boot.

[crackboy]

had an awesome/gross black toe incident last night
played soccer for the first time in a long time and my cleats are not exactly the most comfortable. I knew with 15 minutes left in the game i was going to have a bloody toe.

I decided that i was going to needle it from the front when i get home, but thought i should actually trim the nail first so that i had less to go under. as soon as the nail was clipped it my hand was covered in blood as it shot out instantly. Drained for most of the day, and today i felt like a normal toe.

[4-TEEF'S Ghost]

I got them all the time playing basketball and rugby. The hole in the nail is the best treatment. Do it the day of the injury and the nail will stay on. Wait a day or two and the nail usually falls of. I like the hole better than under the nail because it seems to bleed off pressure longer without clotting.

I used to use a small drill bit in my cordless drill. Drill 90% of the way through and then finish with an exacto knife. Snowbird clinic actually has a special tool for the job. A little battery powered pen with a wire on the end. Hold the button for a few secs and the wire glows red and melts through the toe in 2 seconds with no pain.

[beaterdit]

Damn, I got it bad. Forgot how this worked and waited until the second day to decompress. Waited like a week and skied some runs over the weekend and now I'm in pain and might be infected and don't know when I'll ski again.



Some good tips in here. Started soaking in a very warm solution of Epsom salt and Chlorhexadine surgical scrub, bacitracin and bandaids after. And I'm wearing flipflops whenever possible. Thinking about a finger cot with bacitracin if I can find some that aren't that tight.

If we weren't heading into the thick of the season I'd go for the full ablation in a heartbeat.

FML

[westoxified]

Maybe it's the camera angle but holy shit dude, I would be more worried about that first met-head on your left foot.

[Spats]

Maybe it's the camera angle but holy shit dude, I would be more worried about that first met-head on your left foot.

I believe that's called a 'bunion'.

It makes me sad to see people continually torturing themselves by putting themselves in boots that are too short.

I'll bold this:

THE REASON YOU'RE LOSING TOENAILS IS BECAUSE THERE IS SPACE AT THE JUNCTION OF YOUR LOWER LEG AND INSTEP AND YOUR FOOT CAN SLIDE FORWARD. Sizing down your boot will NOT prevent this, and buckling tighter will NOT prevent this, because it has to do with the contour of your shin and instep vs. the boot's contour.

Once again:
[ame="http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107763"]Heretical Bootfitting Theory - Teton Gravity Research Forums[/ame]

If your feet slide around, the best solution is to start putting some bootfitting foam on the boot tongue, over your instep, and up your lower leg, until all the room is taken up and your heel is locked back where it's supposed to be.

Most people have a bunch of room there and can stuff quite a bit of bootfitting foam in there. Tongue boots (Krypton, Full Tilt) have a buckle that can snug the area down somewhat, which often helps...but most of you will probably have to go to a bootfitter. Note that many bootfitters will tell you this isn't the problem and you need to size your shell down: tell them politely but firmly that you're not interested and need this space filled up.

[westoxified]

I believe that's called a 'bunion'.

Semantics. But whatever, it's a sign of a larger problem with belongs in another thread.

[beaterdit]

Maybe it's the camera angle but holy shit dude, I would be more worried about that first met-head on your left foot.

Well, it's not the camera angle that thing is definitely fucked but it doesnt hurt so I'm gonna do anythign about it just now.

[L7]

Semantics. But whatever, it's a sign of a larger problem with belongs in another thread.

That larger problem which can likely be fixed/helped with a good footbed which will also go a long way to fix the black toe problem. ie: prevent the foot from lengthening under pressure, create more volume at the mid foot which may well help hold you back in the heel pocket better. The right foot bunion isn't far behind. Size wise yes, dysfunction wise not far at all.

The point of buying a tight fitting boot (shorter shell) is not the shorter shell itself but to achieve much snugger fit in the areas spats is talking about...... front of the ankle/midfoot and instep. The shorter shell is not the goal it is the means of achieving this fit.

BTW do NOT buy boots sized to accommodate the bunions you will just create more black toe issues. Buy boots that fit where it is important and modify the right sized boots to accommodate the bunion.