Engineer to Firefighter

[4frntmorrison]

Looking for some advice from the maggot collective. I know there's a reasonable number of people in the engineering field and firefighting field on here so I thought this would be a good place to start. I graduated from college and have been working as a civil engineer for a year now and find it to be absolutely soul sucking. I'm stuck at a desk doing tedious work that is wasting tax payer dollars and my life. I want to be working outside with other people, doing a physically and mentally challenging job, and making a difference by helping people. I want to do something big and exciting. Anyways, I'm thinking about firefighting. I found this wildland firefighter apprentice program that sounds like what I'm looking for and I'm open to municipal firefighting. What's life like (paying bills, free time, etc) as a career wildland firefighter? How much of a toll is the work on your body (am I going to be crippled by 30)? Good idea/bad idea? Is a fire science degree necessary? Thanks in advance.

[IVplay]

^honestly, from an outside perspective, firefighters are heroes. And the pay scale is good the higher you climb-fire chief in toronto makes over 300k.

[Meadow Skipper]

Last I heard the apprentice program was hard to get into, but a good deal if you can go that route. Getting that first job can be really difficult these days. Wildland starts out seasonal, so it can be a good idea to have a winter gig at first...or just ski your ass off. Year-round jobs can be hard to get too, and I had a forestry degree which helped to get off the line when I got older.

Promotions usually require moving to a different area. It can be hard on your body and relationships (you're often gone a lot). Down the road it's not a bad idea to have a strategy to get off of crews - a degree helps to get into something a little farther up the ladder. That worked for me anyway.

I was a career federal wildland guy and it worked out pretty good for me, other than a couple of cratered marriages and ending the run in an office job. Nice retirement package though.

[TacocaT]

I have a degree in forestry and work in fire. Wildland Firefighting is a very satisfying job but it is tough to turn into a long term career. You will have to work seasonally for several seasons before finding something year round. It could be many many season. You will probably have to move a few times to get good assignments. Many year round fire jobs require a degree in some type of natural resources. Civil engineering may get you something. If you get on an active crew that travels a lot you can make decent money while not spending much. The actual job is great, you get to work with aircraft and heavy machinery and see some beautiful areas. I love the job but I have a hard time recommending the career path these days especially to someone with a valuable degree like civil engineering.

It can be very tough dirty demanding work and I have definitely had days when i get off 12 hours on the line and wonder why I do it. But every year right around now the I can't wait for things to get rolling. I work an engine job now so I don't work quit as hard as the straight up diggers but I still put in my share. I am 31 this July and my body is doing fine. I do worry long term on the effects on my respiratory system.

Structure is a different world. I looked into it in the past. It is extremely competitive. Wildland stuff does not get you much at most departments. You pretty much have to be a paramedic to be competitive. Fighting fires is a very small part of the job mostly medical and car accidents.

[char]

I am doing the exact opposite of what you are interested in doing for basically the same reasons.

A bunch of people on here told me I would be bored and regret it. I don't. I haven't felt as mentally and physically well in years (I have fucked up knees and sciatica from disk issues). I am looking forward to having a summer, predictable paychecks and schedule, significantly higher salary prospects and control of my diet. You will also find that wildland fire is as much a tax dollar black hole as any other profession.

You don't need another degree.

You can check out the GS payscale on the OPM website (just google it). You will start as a GS-5 at best, plan on GS-4 working 6 months max unless in California. Figure 5-6 years to get to a GS-7. California is the only state where you will find year-round work as less than a GS-7.

Edit- I realize the above sounds quite negative. Being a wildland firefighter can/is incredibly rewarding. You will see and do things that only a few get to experience. Most of the people are fantastic people to work for and with. Lots of people also find the 6 month on 6 month off schedule fits their lifestyle and allows for long periods of travel, other jobs, etc. I'd strongly suggest you avoid getting in the unemployment line if you can avoid it.

[jma233]

Buddy of mine has been a firefighter in a major metro area for a long time(25 yrs?). As was said earlier it's mainly car accidents and medical calls. For the longest time he worked the busiest house because he said everything else was mind numbing. Lately though he's at a very quiet house and does outdoor stuff on his days off. When I ask him about exciting weeks its never about fires but rather about figuring how to get obese people out of their homes.

I did the career switch from engineer to the medical field, mainly because I was manufacturing and every company I worked for went belly up. If I had a more generic degree like mechanical or civil I think I would have kept looking until I found the right fit. I would talk to your engineer peers and see if they have any ideas.

[M_R]

Civil engineering has many different options. look around the private sector for interesting opportunities. I recall a relative who had a gig in cement forming and he traveled globally to large scale construction sites, so the outdoor aspect can be there.

As for firefighting, I spoke to one with 10+ years experience in Toronto, and he really emphasized the mental challenge of the job. He said being a first responder you get to see and deal with some real fucked up shit (specifically humane carnage) and it really plays on your psyche. So just a head up to an aspect of the urban side of the job that not everybody thinks of.

[Hugh Conway]

There's a huge range of places to work in engineering, they don't all suck, but most do. Government involved positions, in particular, have a soul sucking tedium that's horrible. Someplace smaller, more involved, you might find much more stimulating (in bad times this can also be much more stressful). If you are skilled and smart you might be able to start your own shop.

It may be obvious, but you may wish to ask yourself what kind of direction and status you are willing to accept in a job; as an engineer at many places you give orders/directions/plans of actions, within reason, and that's not the case with many other lines of work (e.g as a paramedic you've nurses and doctors above you in the orders chain)

[Kevo]

There are some other threads on here from way back in the day about how to get into wildland fire. Not sure if they are still around. I asked back in 2007ish and ended up getting into wildland fire for a little while.

This is a more recent thread with some info- http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...r-oil-rig-jobs

You've already heard from Meadow Skipper, who to my understanding is by far the most qualified/knowledgeable wildland guy on this forum.

Yetiman has a ton of knowledge and spent many years on helitack crews and engines until 2008.

VC (I think) was or is a jumper out of California.

You might be able to search the above users' post history and find some more info.

The FS apprenticeship program is designed to help qualify and retain people who will eventually go into leadership roles. My understanding is that generally the people who get into it have a couple years of experience fighting fire beforehand.

I have some really good friends from my short time in fire. Out of all the people I worked with and was close with, only a couple are still going. My best friend from my crew is still at it. He has a forestry degree and finished up his 3 year apprenticeship having spent several years on Type 2IA, Engines, HotShot and Helitack crews. He had 3+ seasons in fire before applying to the program.

When I talked to him last, he had finished the apprenticeship but wasn't sure whether he'll stick with fire in the long run since he's getting married and doesn't like the idea of 6 months away from home each year.

Wildland fire can be a great lifestyle in your 20s, but there are very few people who are able to make it into a lifelong career for various reasons.

You can be sent to the other side of the country with 5 minutes to an hour worth of notice. There were several times where my girlfriend was flying out to see me where I had to call her and tell her we'd have to reschedule because I was headed to a fire 700 miles away. I can imagine doing that with a wife and kids would be really hard.

Pay has the potential to be inconsistent, especially if you are on a crew that doesn't get dispatched nationally. If you are on a crew that gets sent all over (Hotshots, certain Type 2IA crews, Fire Use Modules, etc) you'll get a ton more overtime and hazard pay, especially in years where your particular location isn't burning.

My experience (and several others have told me as well) is that it isn't easy to parlay one's experience in wildland fire into another career path elsewhere when you want to get out.

Physical issues are a real part of that line of work. Some guys seem like they can do it forever, but a lot of people do end up having back/knee/ankle/shoulder issues after several years.

Not meaning to sound negative. Some of the coolest things I've seen and done in my life were during and because of my fire experience. Just be realistic that the work itself and the life of a wildland firefighter is seldom glamourous while you're doing it.

[sb]

If yu have a civil engineering degree I would take that in a different direction than what you are doing now. Way more oppurtunities for that than hose jockey.

Not downing on firefighters either, was a vol for many years.

[GeezerSteve]

I graduated from college and have been working as a civil engineer for a year now and find it to be absolutely soul sucking.

Bah. One year is way too little info. Of course you're doing tedious work one year out of school. Get a couple more years of CE under your belt and check out your options. Better yet, stick in there long enough to get a PE stamp and then assess your options. [/Dutch uncle speech]

[Timberridge]

If you are of Irish descent get a job as a NYC fireman. Work 10 years and then injure your back carrying a hose. You will get a very good disability pension with full benefits. Go play golf in the summer and ski in the winter.

[snapt]

I want to be working outside with other people, doing a physically and mentally challenging job, and making a difference by helping people. I want to do something big and exciting.

if you're stateside http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...rce_Pararescue

[4matic]

Join the military.

[grrrr]

Some good stuff posted so far.

Wildland firefighting - hard work, high risk of injury, you will wear your body down, the only way you will really make money in the short term will be working long hours away from home for months at a time. Long term, the pay is still only OK. Look at a hotshot crew, the only one over 40 is the superintendent. You won't get a permanent position for many years...but if you want to winter in Mexico or ski patrol at the Basin, go for it. The good side - it's at times the most exciting and rewarding gig there is.

Structure firefighting - the ratio of applicants to jobs is often in the 1000's to 1. To be competitve nowadays you need to be ripped, have several years as a vollie and test over and over until you can climb your way out of the pack. The good side - 48/96 is about the best schedule you can work, it's incredibly rewarding and the pay can be damn good.

There are departments where some wildland firefighting experience is going to help; we are one of them. I do not hire anyone who does not have some wildfire experience (even my paramedics). That is usually the case only in wildland urban interface areas, where departments are often smaller and don't pay as well. Our department serves as a feeder department - people come here to get the experience to get jobs in city departments and on shot crews. Those candidates are keeping many of the volunteer departments alive.

My advice - find a reputable volunteer department to start with. Stay in engineering until you decide whether you like it. Get your EMT, you will need that before getting paramedic or a full time fire gig. If you live somewhere where the local department does (bona fide) wildfire, you will be more likely to get on as a seasonal state or federal fire gig. Do a year, then you can decide whether it's for you.

[east or bust]

Sounds like you're being a little rash here. Like stated by others there are many disciplines in civil engineering, it's pretty broad.

[GiBo]

Civil engineering has many different options. look around the private sector for interesting opportunities. I recall a relative who had a gig in cement forming and he traveled globally to large scale construction sites, so the outdoor aspect can be there...

This.^^^

I work in a gov setting with a lot of engineers. We joke about that building being the 'black hole' because it of its soul sucking qualities (although, honestly, the whole place is soul sucking to some degree).

My last gig was being a PM in land development/entitlement. Lots of engineers in that field. There was a lot more energy and satisfaction in that job. I got to drive around to our different projects and I was outside a lot of the time. I can tell you that seeing real world projects go from design to build out is very satisfying and fun. Godamn I miss that job!

There were quite a few young engineering grads who worked as construction managers for the large construction companies we hired. They had pretty cool jobs too.

If you are feeling your soul sucked out by a government job in year one, GTFO! I would if I could, but I can't.

[Meadow Skipper]

...Just be realistic that the work itself and the life of a wildland firefighter is seldom glamourous while you're doing it.

Heh. I sometimes refer to it as doing push-ups in a sunbaked ashtray for five months.

Kevo and grrr nailed it.

[DJSapp]

Looking for some advice from the maggot collective. I know there's a reasonable number of people in the engineering field and firefighting field on here so I thought this would be a good place to start. I graduated from college and have been working as a civil engineer for a year now and find it to be absolutely soul sucking. I'm stuck at a desk doing tedious work that is wasting tax payer dollars and my life. I want to be working outside with other people, doing a physically and mentally challenging job, and making a difference by helping people. I want to do something big and exciting. Anyways, I'm thinking about firefighting. I found this wildland firefighter apprentice program that sounds like what I'm looking for and I'm open to municipal firefighting. What's life like (paying bills, free time, etc) as a career wildland firefighter? How much of a toll is the work on your body (am I going to be crippled by 30)? Good idea/bad idea? Is a fire science degree necessary? Thanks in advance.

You got a job as an engineer for a government agency and it was a soul sucking wasteland of full of mouthbreathers and Lumbergs? Shocking.


You need to work for a heavy civil contractor. That is the job you just described, and it is less likely to kill you than wildland firefighting. Where do you live?

[Tippster]

^honestly, from an outside perspective, firefighters are heroes. And the pay scale is good the higher you climb-fire chief in toronto makes over 300k.

And, you know, being the top fireman in all of Canada is a totally actionable career path.

Good lord.

[grskier]

I think if you're not helping people and aren't able to get outside doing 'civil' engineering.. you're doing it wrong.

[Skistack]

Bah. One year is way too little info. Of course you're doing tedious work one year out of school. Get a couple more years of CE under your belt and check out your options. Better yet, stick in there long enough to get a PE stamp and then assess your options. [/Dutch uncle speech]

Agreed, alot of first year out of college jobs are the suck. Somebody's got to do the grunt work and right now you're the grunt. Welcome to the real world!

Don't look at what you're doing now, but where this career path can lead you.

[Viva]

...there are many disciplines in civil engineering, it's pretty broad.

On the flip side, there aren't too many pretty broads in the CE field, or engineering overall for that matter.

[Meadow Skipper]

On the flip side, there aren't too many pretty broads in the CE field, or engineering overall for that matter.

Heh. Check out a fire crew sometime. "She's a fire camp 9, real world 4." Unless you like chicks with black soot ground into all their pores.

[Hugh Conway]

On the flip side, there aren't too many pretty broads in the CE field, or engineering overall for that matter.

Outside of sales, marketing, and sales & marketing, oh and maybe some bio something, there aren't many pretty broads in the workplace.

Agreed, alot of first year out of college jobs are the suck. Somebody's got to do the grunt work and right now you're the grunt. Welcome to the real world!

that's not so much the case with engineering.