WWMD. My younger brother.

[moose pit]

If he sewers your parents there will be a time in the future when you will be the one helping them dig out of the financial hole...

[splat]

My gf had an adopted son that did all this kind of shit. He burned through a quarter mil or more of inheritance and couldn't let the good times stop, so he took to burning everyone with fantastical stories of why he needed to borrow a few grand. One day MS13 would be threatening to kill him, the next day his friends would. He wrote bum checks, skated on a jail rap when some dude got killed in a barroom brawl, connived the holy living shit out of everyone so he could do hookers and blow and single-handedly ruined the free burningman tickets to locals of the black rock desert by selling his tickets twenty times. Finally, people stopped answering his calls, called him out on fb and he had no one left to burn. He recently contracted herpes simplex 2 and it was eating the inside of his mouth, which is kinda karmic. Karma's a bitch.

[fishbenk]

You can try and get your parents and/or you to go to a meeting of http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/for-parents I have no personal experience with it but have heard from friends that have problem family members that it is a good organization. Vibes

[jono]

What he said ^^^ Sorry you have to go through this, it's hell but sometimes it can work out amazingly well, too.

[Art Shirk]

I cut my oldest son off after paying his rent, buying his food and everything else. He stole money from me twice and other family members many times. He was taught values and right from wrong but thievery and drugs were more important to him. I warned him about stealing after the first time, second time I cut him off. I haven't seen him since. Its been 4 years. If he ever gets his shit together he will prolly show up. Unless he is dead, which is where he was heading. VIBES

Heavy. Hope you guys end up hashing it out.

[Rip'nStick]

You can try and get your parents and/or you to go to a meeting of http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/for-parents I have no personal experience with it but have heard from friends that have problem family members that it is a good organization. Vibes

CookieMonster, there have been some good posts on here and some not so good ones. As a son concerned for his parents and as a brother who is probably wondering what happened to his brother, I hope you can sort out the wheat from the chaff. Even advres has something to say here:-)

Addiction is one of the most baffling things you will ever have to witness in this life To a anyone who is not a recovering addict, the actions of your brother will make no sense. From what I have experienced, the mind of an addict is actually more like a split personality than anything else. There is the personality that was developed before addiction really set in; and there is the parasitic addict psyche which gains domination over the former, and perhaps normal, sweet personality you once knew.

This parasitic/addict personality wants NOTHING else than to use drugs that give it a "high". Nothing else. It is like the Terminator, that is it's sole purpose. The weird thing is it exist, parasitically, within the mind and body of the former personality. So it can and has to use the memories and long experience with the family and the world at large to manipulate them into achieving it's sole purpose.

Here is another weird thing. Under the influence of drugs and alcohol (considerable amounts I may add), this parasitic/addict personality will act just simple hedonistic and will be associated with the reptilian brain type of reasoning. The drunk who gets into a fight for another drink for instance. This is just because this addict personality is housed in the physical brain which is under the influence of such drugs. BUT once the drugs clear the system (BAC 0.0), the addict brain will resume it's sole purpose (unbeknownst to the host personality) with all of the reasoning of a con artist. It has to lie to it's host personality before it can even engage the rest of the world! Weird shit I know, invasion of the body snatchers stuff.

In summary, your brother has been taken over by parasitic addiction, and nothing short of a "bottom" scary enough for the survival instincts of your brother to kick in will give him a moment of clarity in which he may be able to chose actions such as rehab followed by a recovery program for the rest of his life (by far the most successful being 12-step programs, in which he will have to see his purpose changed from doing drugs to helping others recover from drugs with a new awareness and communion with a higher power, which makes everything ok) will save him from quick or prolonged destruction.

I know, it sounds like a B-grade horror movie. I am not making this shit up, I had to personally experience it. There will be those that say that 12-step programs like Alcoholics Anonymous are a cult. Fine. Ask any of those people how they personally recovered from addiction. I would certainly like to know. I tried everything I could do and that did not stop that parasite. In a moment of clarity I sought the best help on the planet. It wasn't enough. I had to go beyond this planet.


Al-Anon is a loosely and locally organized group of people, modeled after Alcoholics Anonymous, that meet to talk about how they are recovering from the condition that allowed them to allow addiction in their family or how they are dealing with the effects of addiction in the family. I would suggest to your parents and you to pick up the How Al-Anon Works and find a group that talks about the fundamental learnings to be gained from the text. Avoid groups that sit around and bitch about things and don't go back to the text for solutions in their lives. Seriously, there are a lot of meetings out there where people meet to bitch about things but don't have any idea about understanding the addict and what it means to your own life, which has been impacted be the addict. If a meeting doesn't resonate, find another. Give it at least five different meetings before you give up and read the text.

Well there you go, I feel for you. It may not turn out pretty. But in my opinion, it is, by definition, OK.

[DoWork]

your parents are enabling him.

Very much so. They are addicted to protecting him from himself every bit as much as he's addicted to drugs and alcohol. He's a user- of people and of substances, and I'd cut him out of my life 100% until he was clean. I'd tell my parents I was doing so and I'd also advise them to do the same- let them know you won't be attending functions with him around until he's 100% clean and sober. Once somebody turns the corner like that and goes into full on junkie mode there is no stopping them and if you try they WILL take you down with them. If they aren't ready to stop you will never make them.


Make a stand. Call him out. Demand he get help or gtfo of your life and do your best to get your parents to join.

[Vt-Freeheel]

A drunk thieving rapist, good luck.

[Timberridge]

Buy him a one way ticket to Mexico. America already has the highest incarceration rate in the world and he will just keep costing your parents and the American taxpayer more $.

[systemoverblow'd]

A drunk thieving rapist, good luck.

Shit, I forgot that part. Yeah, I've never raped anyone either.

[Conundrum]

Seems like if your parents are reasonable and fair people, you've got $120k coming your way. Treat yourself to something nice.

[iceman]

Seems like if your parents are reasonable and fair people, you've got $120k coming your way. Treat yourself to something nice.

Fair's fair.

[Timberridge]

Just have it fitted w an Alcolock and hide the keys when your brother is over.

[XXX-er]

Quit whining and invest in the company running the prisons ... its what made America great

call me a hardass cuz I would have seen a pattern long ago & left buddy to deal with problems on his own

[grrrr]

Hookers and blow.

[KQ]

The more I read this thread and think about the situation the more it seems like your time would be best spent helping your parents come to terms with this situation. They need help as much or more so than your brother and if they aren't "mentally healthy" regarding this situation they can't help him (whatever that many mean - i.e. kicking him to the curb, getting an intervention started, etc. etc.).

It is like I told my friend whose husband has early onset Alzheimer's - "this disease is going to take his life, don't let it take yours too". She is struggling to care for him as his brain turns to Jell-o and the man she knew ceases to exist (early onset is REALLY bad and happens fast. He is only 65). He has become someone she doesn't know and is dangerous to her. She is a prisoner in her own home because she can't leave him alone and she feels this is her lot in life to care for him. I don't really see her behavior as being much different than your parents. Both are sacrificing themselves for the disease of another when they could be getting help for all involved. Help them first so they can help themselves.

[Timberridge]

It's probably tough to get into Canada after the fact, but what about having him run for mayor of Toronto?

[Sirshredalot]

Cut bro out of your life until he gets his shit together. If you have any assets, write a will. At least then if you get hit by a meteor your 401k doesn't go to him.

Talk finances with your folks. If that 100k was money they needed to retire then you have a right to know.

[CookieMonster]

I've been reading this thread and waiting until the collective has had it say before weighing in again. First, I want to sincerely thank everyone for the thoughtful responses. What has really helped most about discussing this is hearing from people have walked in those shoes, or know people who have, and that there have been positive outcomes.

My parents have helped me an awful lot at certain points in my life, and I totally agree that it is my parent's money to do with as they see fit. At this point, it's not endangering them financially, but I'd hate if it ever got to that point. That is part of the reason why I'm asking for outside advice. I'm not really the type of person to get angry about how other people spend their money ( even if it's enabling ) because I want to respect people's boundaries. I also am not bothered by the idea that my parents can forgive him for theft and bad behaviour: my parents have every right to choose the relationships in which they participate and the terms thereof.

Two things have bothered me: the stress my parents are enduring, along with the fact that this behaviour continues unabated even when he isn't drinking. I'm sure you all know the familiar refrain: "this time, it'll be different" ... except it never is. In fact, I used to think "oh, this wouldn't be happening if he were sober", but two years of sobriety interspersed with incredibly serious problems cured me of that idea. That's why I wonder if there is another, perhaps worse, pathology in play.

You're all right... this is going to continue until the cost of changing is markedly lower than the cost of the consequences. I sincerely hope that this is the last time that I'm going to hear the voice on the end of the line telling me that I have a collect call from jail, but I realise that it might not be. It's a very frustrating position to work from, you know, "oh, it's another call from jail, but at least he's still alive".

Myself and several of my family members have participated in al-anon, but I've found standard therapy to be more effective at dealing with feeling overwhelmed. Nonetheless I do appreciate the advice in that regard, along with all the other ancedotes and suggestions. As far as cutting him out of my life, I just can't make that happen because I'm not really in a position to tell my other brothers how to live their lives, and I work with 2 of them. So that's not realistic at this point.

What does the collective think about counseling, therapy, and psychiatric intervention for my brother? At this point, it's something I can make happen with a minimum of family drama and stress.

I forgot to add: the brother in question does work, and he has repaid,all the money he stole ( and has been working on repaying the legal and trial expenses ). He didn't want my Mom to tell us that he stole the money, but she did anyway, and I am not sure if he repaid her to save face with her or us ( or both ). I'm only providing this information, as well as the information about him behaving badly when he's not drinking, so that the collective has all the facts.

Increasingly, I am concerned that there's something fundamentally wrong with him.

[Viva]

A drunk thieving rapist,...

He should run for president; about as qualified as the current, and previous, losers.

[hutash]

Yes, there is something fundamentally wrong with him. "Normal" people do not do such things, ateast not all of them. Sure we all screw up, but this is entirely different.

He needs professional help, most likely of a psychiatric nature. If he has all the problems sober, then is is more then just drugs and alcohol. Both of which will worsen the underlying problem. Frying his brain with drugs and alcohol may have lead to this behavior, but is it a chicken or an egg? At this point it doesn't matter and he needs help. It sounds like you have a pretty good family. Get together a discuss it openly and honestly so you can present a united front.

I strongly disagree with cutting him out of your life, or encouraging you parents and family to do so. It may lead to him hitting bottom faster, but it could easily lead to his death as well. Being a loving, supportive brother does not mean enabling him. Your parents need to realize this as well. You can love him, support him, do all you can to help him, just don't enable him. There is a massive difference between the two.

[1080Rider]

You say he still does these things when "sober." Does that mean, when he's not drinking but you don't know whether he's using drugs? He sounds like a drug addict to me- pills or worse but that's what he sounds like. Are you sure that in his "sober" time he's not still using? If he's not using anything and acts like this, he needs some serious mental health therapy.

[frorider]

Der poopenhausen.

[grrrr]

Der poopenhausen.

I was going to go with that instead of hookers and blow, but the image just left me a bit queasy.

[Sirshredalot]

What does the collective think about counseling, therapy, and psychiatric intervention for my brother? At this point, it's something I can make happen with a minimum of family drama and stress.

I forgot to add: the brother in question does work, and he has repaid,all the money he stole ( and has been working on repaying the legal and trial expenses ). He didn't want my Mom to tell us that he stole the money, but she did anyway, and I am not sure if he repaid her to save face with her or us ( or both ). I'm only providing this information, as well as the information about him behaving badly when he's not drinking, so that the collective has all the facts.

Increasingly, I am concerned that there's something fundamentally wrong with him.

In my (unfortunate) experience with this sort of thing, whether you're talking about 12-step programs or therapy from a shrink, it'll only work if he is invested in it. If you think he'll buy in, then it can probably help him. If he's not interested in buying in, then you may as well save your money and effort.

It's probably a good sign that he has made some effort to pay back the cash. Maybe that means he realizes that he's fucked up and would be willing to try treatment with an open mind.