Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

[MultiVerse]

The discussion over the past few pages has things backwards. Backwards in the sense that as more low cost renewable energy comes online it pushes higher cost coal, gas, and nuclear plants out of service. That's where bitcoin mining comes in.

Bitcoin mining doesn't accelerate the green energy transition. Instead the availability of renewable energy makes it cost effective for miners to acquire old power plants, often coal, often with no other interested buyers, and repurpose them without concern for the environmental impacts and remediation obligations.

So while it's theoretically possible for miners to utilize zero-emission sources of electricity, in reality it's a tiny fraction of overall mining. Miners prefer fossil-fired energy because:

1. Fossil fuel derived energy is more readily available at a lower cost thanks to renewables
2. Fossil fuel energy better matches the 24/7 load characteristics of cryptocurrency mining
3. Statutory and regulatory requirements increase the value of renewable energy for other things making fossil fuel energy more cost competitive when price is the only consideration

[Bunion 2020]

I believe it certainly will go up, bigly. If I'm wrong oh well.

That's the spirit. 100% hoping it works out for you.

[bennymac]

I own Bitcoin because I want to make money off it - same as my other investments.

[stalefish3169]

Awful quiet now that I’ve proved you wrong (again). You’re the person you accuse others of being.

Right now, I'm in a time zone that is likely quite different from yours dude. I know I live rent free in your head, but I have a life outside of TGR.

Not sure what the context was, but congrats on admitting you were wrong. You're the best Benny this place has ever seen.

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[stalefish3169]

Staley, your recourse to generational warfare arguments never seems to convince anyone here of the fundamental value proposition. As you surely know, Gen X holds the largest store of BTC…there are more millennials holding, but at far less per hodler. Meanwhile in case anyone missed it, gen Z crypto sentiment appeared to have turned last year. FWIW (!) there are indications why…

Not sure what your point is here. But the value proposition for BTC as a store of value is that older generations largely benefitted from the fiat system and more specifically the recent ZIRP. Since older generations own far more assets, they benefit the most every time the fed hits CTRL + P and asset prices go up. Fact is the millennial generation is the first in recent US history to see its standard of living decrease relative to parents.

As for Zoomers, I think it's too early to tell what their trends are and legacy will be as most are still very young. But it isn't hard for journalists with an agenda to try and drive the narrative with whatever they want to push.

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[MultiVerse]

Bullshit. The talking point that Millennials are making less than their parents was already debunked several times in this thread. After a rough start the Millennial generation is thriving. Since 2019, households headed by Millennials are making considerably more money than those headed by Boomers and Gen Xers at the same age. Fact is the Millennial generation is prospering in America.

Just one of many sources: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...owners/673485/

[stalefish3169]

Bullshit. The talking point that Millennials are making less than their parents was already debunked several times in this thread. After a rough start the Millennial generation is thriving. Since 2019, households headed by Millennials are making considerably more money than those headed by Boomers and Gen Xers at the same age. Fact is the Millennial generation is prospering in America.

Just one of many sources: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...owners/673485/

Cherry pick all you want dude. For every bullshit article you post there are many more like this one. Really feel for the guy. A dozen rental properties. The horror.

I have a STEM M.S. degree and make over 100k and there's no way I'd be able to afford a SFH in my neighborhood without BTC.

---------

‘It feels like I’m holding two full-time jobs:’ I’m 65, retired and have a $2,000 pension. I own rental properties, but they’re stressful to maintain. Should I keep them or sell?

Last Updated: Jan. 9, 2023 at 6:41 p.m. ETFirst Published: Jan. 9, 2023 at 8:47 a.m. ET


Dear MarketWatch,

I’m a 65-year-old married man in Southern California. I retired about 5 years ago, and have very little in pension payments of about $2,000 from my old job, without any medical benefits.

But I have rental income from about a dozen single-family homes that I collected during my professional career as a civil engineer.

Some of these homes have mortgages, and others are free and clear. I currently manage and maintain all of them myself. Even though I’m retired, it feels like I’m holding two full-time jobs, that of a handyman and a bookkeeper.

‘Even though I’m retired, it feels like I’m holding two full-time jobs, that of a handyman and a bookkeeper. ‘

I’m still able to do them for now, but looking ahead to five to 10 years, I’m not sure if I’ll still be able to.

So my question is, what are my options with these homes? Should I sell? Should I consolidate the single-family homes? And how can I make it such that they can give me good income to help me in my retirement, and free up my time, so that I can really enjoy my retirement?





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[MultiVerse]

Contrary to your narrative, and looking at data which is the opposite of cherry picking, Millennial homeownership rates are roughly the sane as Boomers’ and Gen Xers’ at the same age—around 50%. Millennials have not been unlucky when it comes to homeownership. If anything, the reverse is true. Many bought homes in the 2010s after the aughts housing bubble popped and purchased those homes with the help of historically low mortgage rates.

Fact every generation faces challenges, including some that their parents’ generation did not. Within every generation, there is hardship, and Millennials are no different. But all in all, Millennials are a generation on the cusp of middle age that looks successful, not lost

[J. Barron DeJong]

Not sure what your point is here. But the value proposition for BTC as a store of value is that older generations largely benefitted from the fiat system and more specifically the recent ZIRP. Since older generations own far more assets, they benefit the most every time the fed hits CTRL + P and asset prices go up. Fact is the millennial generation is the first in recent US history to see its standard of living decrease relative to parents.

As for Zoomers, I think it's too early to tell what their trends are and legacy will be as most are still very young. But it isn't hard for journalists with an agenda to try and drive the narrative with whatever they want to push.

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https://jabberwocking.com/millennial...g-very-normal/

Stop your fucking whining. I can’t afford to buy in the neighborhood I ‘want to’ on my $100k+ salary either. I’m not going to scam people out of their money to try and get enough to make it happen.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Contrary to your narrative, and looking at data which is the opposite of cherry picking, Millennial homeownership rates are roughly the sane as Boomers’ and Gen Xers’ at the same age—around 50%. Millennials have not been unlucky when it comes to homeownership. If anything, the reverse is true. Many bought homes in the 2010s after the aughts housing bubble popped and purchased those homes with the help of historically low mortgage rates.

Fact every generation faces challenges, including some that their parents’ generation did not. Within every generation, there is hardship, and Millennials are no different. But all in all, Millennials are a generation on the cusp of middle age that looks successful, not lost

Sounds like you‘re unaware that the data shows that literally every retired civil engineer owns a dozen rental properties…

[bennymac]

Right now, I'm in a time zone that is likely quite different from yours dude. I know I live rent free in your head, but I have a life outside of TGR.

I’m on a different continent than my home - we’ll add this to the lengthy list of times you’ve been wrong about me. You’re on a hot streak this week!

I’d say “living rent fee” = you concocting a delusion about me deleting multiple posts in this thread after allegedly shilling some coin. Ask yourself why you can’t even find responses to my deleted posts with others quoting me…

But hey it’s super fucking cringe embarrassing (but on brand) that you want to have a time-zone off LOL

[stalefish3169]

I’m on a different continent than my home - we’ll add this to the lengthy list of times you’ve been wrong about me. You’re on a hot streak this week!

I’d say “living rent fee” = you concocting a delusion about me deleting multiple posts in this thread after allegedly shilling some coin. Ask yourself why you can’t even find responses to my deleted posts with others quoting me…

But hey it’s super fucking cringe embarrassing (but on brand) that you want to have a time-zone off LOL

All I meant by the time zone comment is that you should chill out and that I didn't respond to you immediately because I might've been sleeping. I have a life outside of the TGR forums.

Living rent free means you posting over and over about me when I'm not even referring to you or mentioning you. Since you likely don't own any crypto, I know you need to feel validated by coming in here and trolling.

Anyway, thanks for the inspiration. Just bought some more BTC.

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[bennymac]

You: criticize me

Me: fuck off loser

You: haha see I knew it - you can’t refute my criticism!!

Me: refutes with proof

You: pivots to “you live in my head!”

Me: rolls eyes

[stalefish3169]

You: criticize me

Me: fuck off loser

You: haha see I knew it - you can’t refute my criticism!!

Me: refutes with proof

You: pivots to “you live in my head!”

Me: rolls eyes

There you go, making shit up again. You asked me a few years ago if I thought BTC had any negatives, which I now realize was not done in good faith. Yet I responded politely with several detailed paragraphs.

Then you piled on with the overwhelming amount of crypto haters with nothing better to do than post in a thread they know very little about. Additionally, you continue to troll me like a teenager with the same hashtag over and over... sometimes weeks after I haven't posted. You act the same way to others in posts all over this board. But you're the victim. Cool.

[summit]

Boomers vs Millenials... what is the percentage of stay at home vs dual worker households to achieve that wealth? What is the average number of children per household? What is the average level of education? What is the average age of having a child?

That is your frustration and pain point... to be as prosperous as the boomers, the millennials have to:
1. Have both members of the household working
2. More education just to make it
3. Fewer children
4. Delay having children

The only reason we don't have a pending population implosion like other first world countries is we have immigration. Immigration is fine but if you have to have more immigration to maintain population so as to compensate for the inability to have families and the need to delay delay in having families in order to keep a standard of living... well that is a shit trade and that is not a good promise to make the current generation or future generations. It's a shit promise to the future progeny of the current generation of immigrants as well.

I also don't think that the "total wealth" measured reflects purchasing power parity.

It sure as fuck doesn't account for wealth concentration: the median millennial is comparatively worse off and the overall stats are offset by a small cadre of megarich millennial techies.

Productivity is up, but wages are stagnant, and the education needed to hit that productivity means that productivity is down when amortized for time/cost to enter the workforce. The value proposition for education is not nearly as great as it used to be for boomers and the quality of education has fallen at all levels.

Many things are better than they were, but the ability for the average joe and jane to make it and have 2 children (needed to sustain) is harder

[Foggy_Goggles]

I wish I could figure out a way to monitze the buzzword bingo and word salad that the crytoworld seems to have mastered.

[rolls up to what ever fast casual places is in style] "hey bro, do you take fiat?"

Is it works for you, great. But shut the fuck up about it. You log on to your social accounts one keystroke at a time just like the rest of us. Save me the enlightenment.

[summit]

How can millenials be as wealthy as boomers yet 73% are living paycheck to paycheck? WEALTH CONCENTRATION and failures of purchasing power parity



Millennials lag boomers on home ownership and what that doesn't show is millennials hold longer mortgages and pay a larger proportion of earnings for housing costs

None of this is an argument for crypto, which is just an investing ponzi scheme that is leading to further wealth concentration.

[bennymac]

There you go, making shit up again. You asked me a few years ago if I thought BTC had any negatives, which I now realize was not done in good faith. Yet I responded politely with several detailed paragraphs.

Then you piled on with the overwhelming amount of crypto haters with nothing better to do than post in a thread they know very little about. Additionally, you continue to troll me like a teenager with the same hashtag over and over... sometimes weeks after I haven't posted. You act the same way to others in posts all over this board. But you're the victim. Cool.

That post makes as much sense as you accusing me of writing a bunch of posts shilling a shitcoin then deleting them when I’m criticized by others in here - which would really only happen if I owned that shitcoin and was pumping it - but also simultaneously accusing me of being a crypto naysayer/hater and not being a crypto holder.

That is to say you make no sense. Keep dreaming. And shilling scammy shit to mags like FTX.

[stalefish3169]

How can millenials be as wealthy as boomers yet 73% are living paycheck to paycheck? WEALTH CONCENTRATION and failures of purchasing power parity



Millennials lag boomers on home ownership and what that doesn't show is millennials hold longer mortgages and pay a larger proportion of earnings for housing costs

None of this is an argument for crypto, which is just an investing ponzi scheme that is leading to further wealth concentration.

BTC is relevant because it's a defense against the recklessly monetary policy of the fed. Every time the fed decides to print more money it's a form of theft from workers. Even worse, the already rich get richer as asset prices rise with inflation, and wealth inequality grows via a positive feedback loop. Bitcoin is the anti-ponzi due to its Proof-of-Work. Nobody has the ability to create more without expending resources while at the same time, everyone has equal access.

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[Mustonen]

BTC is relevant because it's a defense against the recklessly monetary policy of the fed. Every time the fed decides to print more money it's a form of theft from workers. Even worse, the already rich get richer as asset prices rise with inflation, and wealth inequality grows via a positive feedback loop. Bitcoin is the anti-ponzi due to its Proof-of-Work. Nobody has the ability to create more without expending resources while at the same time, everyone has equal access.

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Do go on about how deflationary pressure is good for the working class. We haven’t entertained this particular line of bullshit in a little while.

[J. Barron DeJong]

How can millenials be as wealthy as boomers yet 73% are living paycheck to paycheck? WEALTH CONCENTRATION and failures of purchasing power parity



Millennials lag boomers on home ownership and what that doesn't show is millennials hold longer mortgages and pay a larger proportion of earnings for housing costs

None of this is an argument for crypto, which is just an investing ponzi scheme that is leading to further wealth concentration.

An argument against that point of view:

https://www.slowboring.com/p/nostalg...-totally-wrong

[summit]

BTC is relevant because it's a defense against the recklessly monetary policy of the fed. Every time the fed decides to print more money it's a form of theft from workers. Even worse, the already rich get richer as asset prices rise with inflation, and wealth inequality grows via a positive feedback loop. Bitcoin is the anti-ponzi due to its Proof-of-Work. Nobody has the ability to create more without expending resources while at the same time, everyone has equal access.

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Proof of work does not have inherent value. That is actually a socialist concept. The product of work has value, or doesn't, based on the market value of it's utility based on supply and demand versus substitutability. Crypto is infinitely substitutable supply limited fiat... it doesn't matter that there are finite number of BTC because there are an infinite number of crytpos possible including an infinite number of BTC clones. The only reason BTC is more popular than Joe's Copy of BTC is just a battle of faith, inertia, media and popularity, which is actually less than fiats have. Fiat's have force of law, economy, national pride, regulations, national economies and military to support them. BTC has none of those things.

If BTC is an anti-inflation hedge, then why this? https://www.coindesk.com/markets/202...ven-narrative/

Coindesk:
"Bitcoin's Tight Correlation With Nasdaq-SPX Ratio Muddies Safe-Haven Narrative

Bitcoin continues to move in lockstep with the Nasdaq to S&P 500 ratio. The positive correlation suggests the cryptocurrency is still a risky asset."

Why do tokens and coins boom and bust with fantastically more volatility than any currency or gold?

[Mustonen]

You know what they say when it comes to a job well done - work harder not smarter.

[summit]

An argument against that point of view:

https://www.slowboring.com/p/nostalg...-totally-wrong

That was pretty weak.

"In 1960 a household could have a house, a car, send kids to college with one income. Now they can have two cars..." yes on TWO FUCKING INCOMES, but not two houses, not 4 kids going to college. Oh but they might have a dishwasher! Guess what? They need it because everyone is at work and nobody has time to do dishes. 60% of married couples are dual income now versus 30% in 1960. But we have longer mortgages, college debt, and lower home ownership.

[J. Barron DeJong]

That was pretty weak.

"In 1960 a household could have a house, a car, send kids to college with one income. Now they can have two cars..." yes on TWO FUCKING INCOMES, but not two houses, not 4 kids going to college. Oh but they might have a dishwasher! Guess what? They need it because everyone is at work and nobody has time to do dishes. 60% of married couples are dual income now versus 30% in 1960. But we have longer mortgages, college debt, and lower home ownership.

How about in simple chart form:



It’s just a fact that the typical worker today can afford more and/or higher quality goods and services today than they could in the past.

That doesn’t mean there isn’t anything that can/should be changed to make things even better.

If you want to argue things like people are less financially secure, maybe because they’re trying to keep up with the joneses, or because they see what the super rich are doing, I’m open to hearing about that.

If you want to complain that housing in certain places is ridiculously expensive, and what can be done about that, I’m open to it.

If you want to say college grads are having to delay some of their life milestones because of tuition costs, I’m open to that.

But it’s just a fact that a typical worker today can afford a higher material standard of living than in the past.

Bonus chart: