Praxis Powder Boards Review - and resources

[Island Bay]

There's a lot of info floating around in many different threads: Reviews, mount point suggestions, sizing etc, so I thought I'd do a Grand Unified Thread for those interested in Powder Boards in particular, and reverse/reverse skis in general.

It would be great to hear comparisons with other r/r skis; Lotus 138, Armada Arg, Skevik Oda et al.

Skis:
Powder Boards 180
Regular lay up
Husky/Eagle UHMW top sheet
Mounted at -8 (+3 from dimple) as per current Praxis guidelines
Skied 4 days at Myoko and Seki Onsen, Niigata Japan

Me:
170 x 6'1
Aging kook
Non hucker

Other skis:
Praxis Protest 187
Praxis BC 190

First af all, I would have bought 190s in an instant, but this was the too-good-to-be-true-by-far Thanksgiving sale with 180s the longest available, and I was so curious to ski these in Japan.

Having skied the Protests for 2 seasons, and absolutely loving the way they don't lock you into a certain turn shape, I was always fascinated with the Powder Boards. However, lots of reviews made them sound downright scary and practically unskiable if not in deep powder, so I was a bit hesitant to break them out. Don't be! They're no beasts.

Conditions ranged from bottomless powder at Seki Onsen to knee-deep powder and semi-tracked powder at Myoko, and soft groomers.

I mostly skied them in the trees at Myoko; very variable terrain with lots of rollers, little drops, flat bits, steep bits, quite tight trees. Hiking above the top chair, the birches are gladed, the terrain much more even, and fark were they good there!
I love being able to do a long drifting turn, then load the tails and accelerate across the fall line, and these do that so well.
Stay centered and balanced, and they will do whatever you want. In this terrain, I never felt that they were too short.

In more tight and technical trees, they pivot super quickly and can be skied quite hard, but here the length was an issue if I didn't stay properly balanced; running into a bump in poor vis resulted in a few unplanned push fronts, but the tails seemed quite supportive still. Disclaimer! I rarely ski tight trees, and I'd definitely not win any prizes there.

At Seki Onsen, there was so much snow that everybody got bogged down at times, even the guy on the DPS Spoons. Get up to speed, though, or ski the steeper lines through the trees, and they porpoised or floated per your input. This was a day beyond face shots, and all I could have wished for was another 10 or 20 cm of length. But then again, on open, fast terrain, they were superb.

The biggest surprise was their performance on groomers. I was afraid that I'd do the splits at the drop of a hat, and would have to nurse them back to the lift, but they were more than fine. As long as you don'y initiate the turn on your shins, but briefly slide from a balanced position, you can actually do a meaning full carve, loading the tails and coming out of the turn with a fair bit of energy. Or release the tails and do big, high speed slides.

In short, if you want to experience the most exquisite feeling in skiing, get your arse on a pair of r/r skis. If you want a quiver-of-one tool, look elsewhere (but these are much more versatile than I had ever imagined).

I'm sure that hard groomers and traverses would be less fun, but I'm so looking forward to skiing them at the NZ club fields in big, open bowls and steep couloirs. I'll return with a broader review as soon as possible (July-August).

For more reviews and info:

Mount point:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...-Powder-Boards

More mount point:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...xis+pows+mount

Old review:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...er-185-reviews

Spindrift's review:
http://www.epicski.com/products/2013...boards/reviews

Tutuko's review (page 19):
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...is-Skis/page19

McConkey's Brain Floss (essential reading):
http://www.skinet.com/ski/gear/2009/...-of-saucer-boy

Blister's Protest review - lots of Powder Boards info in the comments section:
http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...praxis-protest

If you have links to other reviews/resources, just post them and I'll be happy to add them to this list.

Thanks!

[Charmander]

I have a pair of 195s, so the older generation (thinner and straighter I believe).

I reallylike them in soft snow, great at speed, extremely maneuverable in tight trees. Decent enough on piste, I'v skied them I some 2-3" days and they're still a lot of fun.

I'm 5 10 190 and have them mounted -2 from true center which was the only place left for me to mount them (4th or 5th mount) a it feels good, I'd actually recommend that as a mount point.

[Shu Shu]

Nice review! Just when I had convinced myself to go with some Protests in the hopefully upcoming 2015 preorder, now back on the fence again.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "push fronts" is that like the same as going over the handle bars?

@ 5,10 155 i have been surprisingly comfy on my 177 concepts, so thinking the 180 would be a silly fun length in these, even if they're not mach speed alpine destroying vertical eaters.

[Island Bay]

Push front = low front flip, almost like a forward roll with one foot/ski slightly in front of the other. I never attempted one, but ended up skiing out of a couple - slightly confused and very covered in snow

180s sound just right for you, although I'm sure the 190s would ski short enough. And just for the record - and to keep you firmly on that fence - Protests are still the one ski I'll never part with.

[Shu Shu]

Ok i get it. There's a pair in gear swap right now at a ridiculous price that is getting really hard to resist.

[tuco]

I have some older 195's. Rip the shit out of corn and slush. Also make 3D conditions a touch more manageable because of no tip/tail engagement, this was a surprise,especially for such a wide ski.
I also thought they were fine on groomers, just gotta ski the middle.
Trying to coast across flatish shit(runouts) sucks balls!
Quiver ski, but well the fuck worth it!

[Shorty_J]

Nice review! Just when I had convinced myself to go with some Protests in the hopefully upcoming 2015 preorder, now back on the fence again.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "push fronts" is that like the same as going over the handle bars?

@ 5,10 155 i have been surprisingly comfy on my 177 concepts, so thinking the 180 would be a silly fun length in these, even if they're not mach speed alpine destroying vertical eaters.

What do you want to use them for? Resort powder, CAT skiing, touring?

If resort powder I'd go Protest (which I hear is ALMOST as loose as the powder), for touring or CAT, I'd go Powder Board.

[Island Bay]

Ok i get it. There's a pair in gear swap right now at a ridiculous price that is getting really hard to resist.

That's a smoking deal. I'd buy them, try them, and if you're not totally stoked sell them. IIRC, you've got Concepts and GPOs, which means you don't need to be "sensible" about a powder ski.

[neck beard]

Nice one, IB.

I do not like mine on groomers at all. Poorly fitted AT boots on skinny feet doesn't help.

I use my PBs on days where I skin from and ski back to the car. They go fast in trees and turns are drifted without you really knowing it is happening. They just drift, or feel different. You can time your turn differently through spaces which is a fun game. They have been my ski of choice on several days recently.

Breaking trail in deep snow is not bad, but not great with the narrow tips. In the same way, they actually do not have mega float. I think the width is for surfing. They are perhaps not true fat boards. What do you think? I think they are better when it isn't deep.

I need to stay balanced on them, rather than drive them. I'm not a ski racer background tip driver by any measure, but I still like to push tips a bit. This takes some getting used to.

[Shu Shu]

What do you want to use them for? Resort powder, CAT skiing, touring?

If resort powder I'd go Protest (which I hear is ALMOST as loose as the powder), for touring or CAT, I'd go Powder Board.

Thanks Shorty_J it will be all lift served pow, and little hikes. As much as the protest seems like the more sensible choice, the PBs have always appealed to me, and as IB pointed out i have two skis already that pretty much do it all in most conditions soo yeah.

I don't get to ski much interesting terrain that regularly so it kind of keeps things fresh and fun to ski on boards that are not ideally suited for the conditions and figure out ways to make them work.

[tuco]

My brother and I each owned Protests, both sold them, only PB's remain, if that tells you anything.

[hoarhey]

if anyone's interested in a pair of 185 praxis pow's for cheap let me know...
2 mounts, 1 at 296 for dukes and 1 at 296 for dynadukes

I'm preferring protests myself

[Island Bay]

Nice one, IB.

I do not like mine on groomers at all. Poorly fitted AT boots on skinny feet doesn't help.

I use my PBs on days where I skin from and ski back to the car. They go fast in trees and turns are drifted without you really knowing it is happening. They just drift, or feel different. You can time your turn differently through spaces which is a fun game. They have been my ski of choice on several days recently.

Breaking trail in deep snow is not bad, but not great with the narrow tips. In the same way, they actually do not have mega float. I think the width is for surfing. They are perhaps not true fat boards. What do you think? I think they are better when it isn't deep.

I need to stay balanced on them, rather than drive them. I'm not a ski racer background tip driver by any measure, but I still like to push tips a bit. This takes some getting used to.

You might be right re really deep snow, and I almost hope you are, as I'll rarely ski it in NZ. Variable powder, wind sift, slush, corn, gunk - not perfect, but thankfully mostly smooth and fast.

I hear you re skinny feet and boots, but with lots of fiddling my Maestrales now ski better than anything else I've tried, and hopefully their lateral stiffness will make traversing doable if not enjoyable.

Happy to hear that you tour a lot on yours. I'll be putting Sollyfit plates on mine to tour the clubfields backcountry when it's soft; hard skin tracks on 138mm does not make my heart sing. That said, a lot will be bootpacking, ridge hiking etc, where the short 180s will be very handy.

[neck beard]

Happy to hear that you tour a lot on yours.

Not too much, but that has more to do with my tour location or objective on some days. This is the season of my explorations. I guess I've had about 15 days on them of my 45 days* touring this season so far. The PB's have been on mostly 2000-3000 foot tours without any hard snow traverses.

* all powder or old powder or soft snow except a couple. haha!

[Island Bay]

Not too much, but that has more to do with my tour location or objective on some days. This is the season of my explorations. I guess I've had about 15 days on them of my 45 days* touring this season so far. The PB's have been on mostly 2000-3000 foot tours without any hard snow traverses.

* all powder or old powder or soft snow except a couple. haha!

45 days this, powder that, bla bla. F"+k you, ahem, I mean, something to aspire to :-)

[jrawk]

So I got two days on my new to me 195 sunset graphic PBs a couple weeks ago when whistler got the only big storm of the season. STH 16s mounted I have no idea where. I was very nervous skiing them at the resort after everything I had read online, and guess what? For No Reason! Took me one run to get used to them, and that involved wind crusted pow, soft pow, long cat track, busy groomer, an unfortunate icy bump section and slushy groomer. By the second lap I was straight lining groomers and passing people on the cat tracks. What is everyone complaining about? As for pow, Lots of fun in tight trees, monster trucks over everything. Point and shoot, very natural feeling. Super quick and stable. Heavy because they are massive! My usual skis are 186 EHPs which are already pretty pivot etc soI am used to sliding around on groomers. Knees were a bit tired of the torque of so much ski by the final ski out. Can't wait for more pow to get more time on them. I don't know why more people don't ski these?

[dark_star]

I'll chime in with my powder board comments...

Picked up a pair this past summer from Keith's tent sale. I'm 5'6", 145 lbs, and found a pair of old stock 2011 175s for something ridiculous like $220 or so. So yeah, I bought them. Have now skied 4 days on them this season in CO and UT (I am from the east). Note, these have full reverse camber, full reverse sidecut. Japanese-style wave graphic with mammoth on the bottom.

1) If I could do it again and/or had the choice, I'd buy the 180s. 175 feels a little sort for me. That said, the shorter length makes them RIDICULOUSLY fun in the trees, where I spend a lot of my time on deep days. Pivoting every which way. LOVE skiing chutes and steeps with these, great for narrow lines, couloirs.

2) I mounted them NTN tele on the line. Whatever your feelings on tele are, this, in retrospect, was a mistake. With full reverse sidecut (my first pair like this), there is absolutely NO reason to mount them tele; they are physically incapable of making a tele turn in the traditional sense (obvious in hindsight, given the design of the ski), and although I got used to making slarvy tele turns in them on the deep stuff, I found myself making parallel turns more often, simply because the shape of the ski seems better suited to it and, quite frankly, it’s more fun. That said, the ski’s soft, playful feel combined with the return of a modern tele binding makes a very snappy rebound from tele turn to tele turn, and it’s very fun to bounce around on top of the snow or light chop. Overall though, I’d mount alpine if I had to do it again.

3) I don't care what others say, the hardpack performance is abysmal. You have to smear around on the center of the ski and to untrained eyes you look like you barely know how to ski. If you try to make a traditional tele turn at all, you’ll obviously hook an edge on the ski center and get taken for a ride. This tradeoff is worth it, IMO, if all you need to do is get home at the end of the day, but don’t expect anything other than survival turns. While heading hope at the end of the day, try to avoid running into your friends, as they’ll think you suck (assuming, of course, they didn't see you shredding the gnar earlier). Or better yet, just ski the backcountry.

These comments aside, overall, I LOVE these skis, and just wish they were a tad longer. I’m considering ripping of the tele plates and throwing on some pivots/fks. (If anyone has a cheap pair with wide brakes, let me know…) That would bring me closer to powder bliss

[ego7man]

I have the 195s, I believe they are from the last year before the sizes got changed to 80/90. I have to remount them before I head to Japan because I need something to tour on. They were on the line before, which I think most people said was too far back. Where's the best place to mount these?

[hoarhey]

I have the 195s, I believe they are from the last year before the sizes got changed to 80/90. I have to remount them before I head to Japan because I need something to tour on. They were on the line before, which I think most people said was too far back. Where's the best place to mount these?

Here's the best thread I've found for earlier model of Praxis Pows and mounting points...

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...xis+pows+mount

[John_B]

I've got a set of the older 195s. Black, white and red topsheets, I think there is a sunrise on the tips. I have no idea what year that makes them, or where exactly they are mounted but I just got my first day on them. Holy shit! They did suffer a bit once things got tracked out, but I think part of that is that I was using a set of Maestrale RS boots and maybe something with a bit more omphh would have been the ticket. That said they were a blast and I'm stoked to keep skiing them to get a bit more of an idea on how they work. I'll measure my mount point and get back to this thread too. Wish I'd seen the above link when I mounted them.

[Island Bay]

I've got a set of the older 195s. Black, white and red topsheets, I think there is a sunrise on the tips. I have no idea what year that makes them, or where exactly they are mounted but I just got my first day on them. Holy shit! They did suffer a bit once things got tracked out, but I think part of that is that I was using a set of Maestrale RS boots and maybe something with a bit more omphh would have been the ticket. That said they were a blast and I'm stoked to keep skiing them to get a bit more of an idea on how they work. I'll measure my mount point and get back to this thread too. Wish I'd seen the above link when I mounted them.

FWIW, I ski mine with mango Maestrales, and I personally don't think they require burly boots to drive them (as they aren't really driven, more like 'guided').

Re mounting, see threads in original post, Hoarhey's link above, or just go with Keith's latest recommendations (-8cm from centre).

[John_B]

I'd agree with that. I only felt at a disadvantage when my legs got tired(should have worked out this fall) and when we stopped chasing lifts as they opened.

[ego7man]

Here's the best thread I've found for earlier model of Praxis Pows and mounting points...

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...xis+pows+mount

Thanks a lot hoarhey, just what I needed.

[Island Bay]

Here's the best thread I've found for earlier model of Praxis Pows and mounting points...

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...xis+pows+mount

Cheers Hoarhey. Link added to the list.

[adrenalated]

Couple o questions. Just picked up a well loved pair of older 185 Pows.

First, length. Damn these things are short. They measure 183cm, which makes them shorter than basically everything else that I normally ski (187 GPO, 186 BillyGoat, older 189 RX). I probably should just throw down on a newer pair of 190s, but they're a lot more expensive. So, just how short do these things ski?

Second, mount point. Has anyone mounted the older 185 at around 101cm from the tip? I would like to put a touring binding on these, but because of the previous mounts, my choices are Dynafit @100.7 or Guardian @ ~101.3. Keith felt that a 101-ish mount would be OK, but was wondering if anyone here had actually tried that far back? FWIW this will be a dedicated deep snow, sled skiing rig and hard/mixed conditions performance is a non-issue (I have other skis for that).

Third, what is the tip and tail profile like on the newer generations of Powderboards? These old ones have a super abrupt upturn, like a camber twin tip of old, instead of the smooth, gradual profile of most modern rockered skis like a GPO or BG. Do the newer Powderboards have a smoother tip/tail profile?

Super stoked to try these things out.