Am I Making a Terrible Decision for AT setup?

[lpkdz]

I am getting new touring skis, and was planning on using my current AT bindings with them, but want some opinions on if I'm totally making the wrong decision here. I will be touring with Salomon Rockette 178's, weighing just shy of 9 lbs for the pair. I've been touring on Marker F10 tours (weighing 3lbs 12 oz for the pair) with my Lange boots. The Langes are remarkably light because they are the short cuff, I have intuition liners in them, and they are only a 23.5. They are actually fairly comparable in weight to a pair of BD Swift AT boots that I have, but haven't used yet. Here's my issue... I am in a situation where I could sell my F10 Tours and get a dynafit binding. I know that dynafit is where it's at as far as touring weight goes, but here is my dilemma: I am concerned about touring in the BD swifts. I have a really narrow foot (and an extremely narrow heel), prefer stiffer boots, and have put a ton of boot work into my Langes. I have been touring in my Langes for a couple of seasons with no issues as far as comfort/blistering, and then obviously get the downhill performance. I have been doing primarily side country touring, but am wanting to step up my game this year. The F10's are about as light a binding as you can get that aren't dynafit, and I have really liked them. I have only used them this season, and they are pounds lighter than what I was touring on the past couple of years, so of course they have felt great, user friendly, solid on the downhill. I chucked the liner in the swifts, and can just pull my intuition out of my Lange's and use them in the Swifts, but the Swifts are just not awesome on the downhill, and too wide in the heel. It's hard to find a touring boot any narrower though, there really isn't anything that's less than 100 last. I'd also like to be able to ski my rockette's at the resort here and there.

I have had a crazy heavy setup that was only really good for side country and short tours until I switched bindings this year. The Marker F10's are significanly lighter, but am I just fooling myself that this will be a functional setup for trying to do longer stuff? I really value downhill performance, but obviously need to have some ability to do long tours without hating life.

[gwat]

Mount Dynafits. Try the swifts, if they don't work shop for a tech boot that works for you. Dynafits will change your life.

[icelanticskier]

^^^^^boo bees?

if you like yer current setup, run with it. longer tours mean more steps. simple. if you find yerself not liking making more steps with the current setup, go lighter. i'm a marker/heavier din soled AT boot guy. no complaints on longer tours. extra weight just makes ya stronger for other sports.

rog

[Two06]

Until you get a tech boot you like don't ruin what's working for you

Sent from my SGH-T999 using TGR Forums

[stuckathuntermtn]

We're gonna need some more revealing pictures of yourself. For science. It'll help with getting the best and most appropriate advice tailored for you.

[XXX-er]

IME a full lightweight dynafit boot/binding/ski setup compared to a heavy-ish rockerd ski/frame AT binding/4 buckle alpine cost me 10-15% in time, sure I still went the distance but with lighter gear I can go farther/faster/sweat less, people will tell ya weight and reduced ROM is no big deal but IME ... the difference IS real

If $$$ is not a biggy go dynafit now OR you will just be older when you finally do, if you are narrow footed and you want good dh performance I would try the gea RS , its at a good price point and it comes with the all important intuition liner

[grinch]

^^ this. you might consider "binding freedom dynaduke plates" if your comfortable adjusting bindings(I think f10's are same hole pattern as dukes?). switch from f10/lange to tech/dynafit setup when you need. stepping stones to a proper quiver

[freebeerisgood]

^^^^^^^
X2. Can't say enough good things about BF inserts and/or plates.

Ill install them for you. After we go on a date.

[XXX-er]

I dunno its obviously just me but I wouldn't go out with any woman who would have the bad taste to have anything to do with me

[lpkdz]

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it! I know that even small weight differences in a setup makes a huge difference on the uphill, but as far as the difference in weight between my F10 tours and the dynafits I'd get, we are talking 1/2 pound of weight per ski... how huge of a deal is that really?

[lpkdz]

Also, the dynadukes sound like a cool idea and are something to think about, but again, the F10 tours are significantly lighter than dukes or even BD fritchis. The dynaduke plate would add about a 1/4 lb per ski according to the website... Seems pointless to use those if I'm only going to shave off 1/4 lb per ski by having the dynaduke plate on vs just sticking with the F10 tours.

[kalisto]

You have to remember you're not lifting your binding on every step with the dynafits as you are with the F10's… doesn't seem much in reality, but in practice, it's fucking huge. Also just a generally more comfortable stride (especially with a AT boot which you'll have to use).

I also give a vote to plates or inserts. Then you can swap between the two as you see fit. the F10's for the gnarly days, and the dynafits for the deathwalks.

[XXX-er]

The dynafit will weigh 1/2 what a frame AT binding will

The ROM that an AT boot gives you is a big thing, the current crop of AT boots have a huge Range Of Motion so you are not taking small steps shuffling along like a giesha on crack trying to keep up with the rest of your buds

Also the effective binding pivot is closer to the ball of your foot so you get a better stride ergonomicaly

the new boots are way lighter AND mo powerful, my 4 buckle size 24 AT boots from 6 years ago weigh 1750 grams compared to my new mercury's which weigh <1400 grams and have WAY more power, you can weigh/compare your alpine boots to this ...it likely even more

I am pretty sure BD boots are for people with hobbit feet so if you got narrow feet and the boot doesnt fit... it doesnt fit

IME it all adds up to a 10-15% difference on the up and a better boot on the down

You will probably go dynafit sooner or later ... go sooner and save $$$ in the long run

[lpkdz]

I'd really like to go dynafit. Love to. Just the boot situation worries me more than anything else. I'd love to be able to have tour mode, etc., but the most miserable days of skiing I've ever had were days in crappy fitting boots. I'm swimming even in a lange with a 97 last, and had to have a lot of work to get my heel to fit even in those. But I'd also like to tour longer without wanting to die, so it's just a dilemma. Ideally my setup would be manageable as is until someone makes a boot that will fit me decently and I have some money to throw at some fitting, but there's not a lot you can do for a boot that's just too wide.

[auvgeek]

Have you tried the TLT6 or women's Mercury. Dunno what size you are, but both come in a fairly decent 22, or so says my girl with small feets. I think she preferred the Mercury cuz of the instep buckle and added stiffness.

[lpkdz]

I'll see what my boot guy says. The dynafits are supposed to run narrower, maybe I'll just run it by him and see if he thinks I could make those work without putting a ton of money and time into it. May as well put the swifts up for sale... if there is an AT boot that will work for me I can put that into my fund stash.

I agree with the general concensus that going dynafit binding/AT boot route is best in the long run. I don't want to be in a situation where the boots ruin the downhill for me, but hopefully I can find a solution to that if/when I can throw some money towards it. I think I'll probably go ahead and mount the Rockette's with the F10's for now, and then redrill when I have the boots to match (don't think there should be any issue drilling a dynafit after a marker?). I don't think I'll be real happy with the BD swifts, and I don't think the benefit of a dynafit binding will outweigh the shittiness of downhill in a wide boot. I suppose the boots are really the heart of the issue. I could afford dynafits now if I sell my F10's, but don't have an additional $600-$800 for a boot that actually fits me. Probably not worth the suffering until I can get the whole package.

[Lindahl]

^^ The new Dynafit boots (TLT6, One, Mercury, Vulcan) have quite narrow heels, and might fit your foot well. Pretty sure there's a woman's version in each, except the Vulcan.

Why'd you buy the Swift if it didn't really fit?

It's not just the weight. About half of the equation is the Dynafit stride. It's loads more efficient than any frame binding. You're going to move to Dynafit in the long run, might as well bite the bullet now. Moving to a Dynafit boot would be a decent gain in efficiency as well, especially on flats (where ROM matters most). Even if you have to carefully watch your budget to make it happen, you'll be really happy you did it now, rather than waiting another season.

You could also look at the CAST system. If you go that route, buy a full Dynafit binding and just the CAST plates, since you'll probably want to go full Dynafit on long days at some point in time. The CAST system with a lightweight DIN 10-11 binding (if they have a pattern for one) would be about the same weight as your Marker Tour 10. With the Marker Squire, it'd likely even weigh less.

[lpkdz]

Fortunately I didn't buy the swifts, they were given to me. With them I was thinking I could maybe think more seriously about switching to a dynafit setup, but quickly realized I'd be in boot hell all over again. I'll have to see if I can get any $$ for the swifts and go from there. Still think I'll mount the F10's cause I don't want to wait on touring until I get a decent boot.

[icelanticskier]

another thing to remember is that you love your langes and the power they provide. that power and dh confidence will make up for some of the added weight on the up. you'll work less on the down. how much touring are you doing at this point?

there's no denying the benefit of a dyna setup (I sell lots of dyna setups) but there's also something to be said for a one setup for all resort/side country/back country where you don't hafta think about anything. step in and go with full confidence.

rog

[skifishbum]

my advise
don't be a rog
higher and farther ya go
the more the reality that needlessly luggin heavy shit uphills whack sinks in
the more you need in your pack to insure your crews companion self rescue capes
and the less i'm gonna rip this shit up downhill performance really matters
why lug a 12 pack when a couple doobs ill do

[EEC]

If I were you I'd mount with dynaduke plates now, use the f10 & langes and shop around for a dynafit compatible boot that works. That way no re drilling later and you'll be able to pick and choose which binding/boot set up you want in the future.

[icelanticskier]

If I were you I'd mount with dynaduke plates now, use the f10 & langes and shop around for a dynafit compatible boot that works. That way no re drilling later and you'll be able to pick and choose which binding/boot set up you want in the future.

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

end of TR.

rog

[userA]

agree and have that system in use on a pair of wailers that has worked well.
try the dynafit boots for your narrow fit like others have mentioned.
b

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Fortunately I didn't buy the swifts, they were given to me. With them I was thinking I could maybe think more seriously about switching to a dynafit setup, but quickly realized I'd be in boot hell all over again. I'll have to see if I can get any $$ for the swifts and go from there. Still think I'll mount the F10's cause I don't want to wait on touring until I get a decent boot.

IK the swifts are a pretty soft in general, but try an intuition PW liner and a booster strap. I put a PW in my dynafit UL and it really stiffened them up.

dynafit setup for the win! I have about 5 skis with dynadukes plates, but can't stand touring in my dukes anymore.

edit to add to Bobby's post: try the Dynafit Titan UL. similar shape and feel to a Lang last, a little wider and softer, but it's your touring boot, you'll survive.

[auvgeek]

]try the Dynafit Titan UL. similar shape and feel to a Lang last, a little wider and softer, but it's your touring boot, you'll survive.

Titan UL not even close to a TLT6 (or Mercury) if you want narrow forefoot and heel. It's a fine boot and certainly much cheaper, but it's not a narrow, which seems to be her chief goal.