Gap between binding and ski?

[milestogo]

So I mounted my own fucking skis yesterday, Barons on BD Warrants. I have a reasonable amount of experience, from 3 pin and Tele to Dynafit, but never with traditional bindings. I borrowed the jig from local shop (thanks Skiershop!), never used one before and it sure makes drilling simple, and got them on last night. Here is my problem: a small, as in tiny, gap between the binding and the ski. I can just make out the space when held on edge. I did not tap (shop said it wasnt necessary with these skis), and screwed them in. Trying to eliminate the gap I ended up with a spinner on each binding (same one, too...weird), so I dont want to tighten up the clutch anymore on the drill for fear of more spinners.

Is it ok to have a tiny gap? Should I take them off and tap the holes now, or is it too late? Any thoughts?

Thanks

[mntlion]

remove bindings, and check that a small volcano didn't rise up afer drilling on the sides of the hole. file it off and re-screw in.

[milestogo]

remove bindings, and check that a small volcano didn't rise up afer drilling on the sides of the hole. file it off and re-screw in.

I thought I had checked, but I guess I should do that again. Should I countersink the holes? I checked them and they were the right depth...

[F#*k you cat]

mtnlion is right. you have volcano's just use a sharp chisel to sheet them off.

[axebiker]

Did you bang the shit out of the skis to make sure nothing was left in the drilled holes?

[milestogo]

Did you bang the shit out of the skis to make sure nothing was left in the drilled holes?

I thought about that, too. I did, however, bang the shit out of those fucking skis.

Are the "volcanoes" formed when you drill in the screw? I imagine they must be, because the top of the holes were flush after I drilled the holes. How do you avoid the gap created by volcanoes then? Screw partway, take them out, trim volcano, then finish the job?
I guess I should have tapped them after all...

[LC]

Unless you really know your screw gun's clutch, always use a screwdriver.

[GeezerSteve]

What mntlion, et. al. said. Always chamfer binding screw holes.

Are the "volcanoes" formed when you drill in the screw?

Often, yes.

It's probably a volcano but in theory it could be something else, e.g., binding screws bottoming out or something is warped or bowed.

[milestogo]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm guessing I never had a problem with the volcanoes before because the dynafit plates, for example, are so soft that that little volcano goes INTO the binding base, and the Barons are so rigid that there is no way that could happen. I recall now that when I mounted some dynaduke plates last year I had the same issue. I skied them cause they were on some rock skis and didnt really care, but I guess I should have addressed the issue.

What tool to you use to countersink the holes? Is there a tool for that? (there has to be)

[auvgeek]

Binding freedom almost always has what you need: http://www.bindingfreedom.com/Ski-Sc...-Tool-4019.htm

But I often use a razor blade in a pinch. Just angle it and use one side to cut a little ring out of the top. Certainly not perfect, but works fine for me. After getting good at it, I sometimes forget and just use a blade (which I always have handy) instead of the tool. (Honestly, I consider a sharp razor blade essential to my mounting kit.)

Edit: I'm not saying this applies to you, but there are times when the binding *looks* like it's not flush, but that's the way the binding was designed and has nothing to do with how tight the screws are. I've had it happen to me before. A perfect, though pretty obvious, example is dynalook plates.

[GeezerSteve]

What tool to you use to countersink the holes? Is there a tool for that? (there has to be)

Well, first, I do a quick chamfer by hand, not a full countersink. I do a quick chamfer with a handheld large (twist) drill bit, say, 3/8" or so, whatever I have lying around.

[1000-oaks]

Do an initial mount without tightening the screws too much, then unmount, shave off the volcanos with a razor blade, then remount taking care to start the screws in the same threads as the first mount.

[milestogo]

Gonna remount them tonight, I guess. I've got those two spinners to deal with, too.

1. take off bindings
2. open beer
3. clean out holes
4. countersink holes
5. fix spinners (epoxy/fiberglass or wood dowel)
6. Remount BY HAND

Sound like a plan? Perhaps 1 and 2 are out of order, and I forgot music, but conceptually I think it will all work.

[Conundrum]

If using the proper bit, it should put a little countersink in with the bit shoulder.

[milestogo]

If using the proper bit, it should put a little countersink in with the bit shoulder.

This is the one I use, from Tognar. 3.6x9. It makes a hole flush with the topsheet.

[GeezerSteve]

Step drills are the tits but you should still chamfer.

[XXX-er]

Well, first, I do a quick chamfer by hand, not a full countersink. I do a quick chamfer with a handheld large (twist) drill bit, say, 3/8" or so, whatever I have lying around.

I don't have a step bit I use wine bottle cork for a depth stop and this is what I do^^ after drilling the holes with a regular 5/32nd bit

when you remount the spinners do it with slowset epoxy and FG strands chopped into 1cm lengths

note the screws are still gona spin SO what I would do is run the screws into the well saturated FG to the point where they would spin and leave the ski to to cure for 24hrs

crank the screws down by hand and yer good to go

[stuckathuntermtn]

Always hand tighten at the end.

[Conundrum]

This is the one I use, from Tognar. 3.6x9. It makes a hole flush with the topsheet.

Step drills are the tits but you should still chamfer.

When the step bit feels like it stops sinking, give it one final hard push for a brief second and it will countersink. I have a chamfer but rarely use it. I just look at the sinks that are made from the step and they are almost always sufficient.

[GeezerSteve]

When the step bit feels like it stops sinking, give it one final hard push for a brief second and it will countersink.

Yeah, I know what you are talking about. That will produce a compressed disc around the hole, looks sort alike a counterbore (not a countersink), but it's neither. Anyway, I'm talking about chamfering, not countersinking or counterboring.

[XXX-er]

I chamfer away the top sheet material

if you are really close pressing deeper might dimple the base ?

[auvgeek]

Steve, can you explain the difference between a chamfer and a countersink? My understanding is that a countersink creates a load-bearing surface while a chamfer is for ease of insertion. So, with the definition I know, nobody is countersinking their holes (even if they use a countersink) because the screw is not resting on the countersunk edge.

[adrenalated]

Steve, can you explain the difference between a chamfer and a countersink? My understanding is that a countersink creates a load-bearing surface while a chamfer is for ease of insertion. So, with the definition I know, nobody is countersinking their holes (even if they use a countersink) because the screw is not resting on the countersunk edge.

Technically, a chamfer is an angled bevel between any two planes (usually perpendicular). A countersink is a chamfer on a hole. A chamfer isn't limited to holes; could be on the outside of a square block, for example. Not sure about how the terminology is being used in this thread since in the case of a hole, the two words mean the same thing.

[milestogo]

Wow. I'm getting schooled! Love it.

I think I am all set. Came home and took the bindings off, they were quite volcanoed (is that a term?). Looked like the Hawaii Island chain.

Took of the big chunks with a chisel, then chamfered (I guess) with a big drill bit (too choppy, perhaps it is dullish), and then went to the razor blade.

Checked the spinners, one remained, the other managed to bite, presumably because there was more material now. Set a wood plug in the remaining spinner (picked up some from Edgewise in Stowe on my way home from work, benefit of driving past numerous ski shops no matter how I drive home), went for a walk.

Came home, shaved off and drilled the wood plug. Glue, hand screw the holes with fresh screws with no gunk on them, and we are good to go. Space gone and screws tight.

Thanks again. Now I just need to figure out what size screw holds the brake in place on the Barons. Anyone know the size?

[auvgeek]

Technically, a chamfer is an angled bevel between any two planes (usually perpendicular). A countersink is a chamfer on a hole. A chamfer isn't limited to holes; could be on the outside of a square block, for example. Not sure about how the terminology is being used in this thread since in the case of a hole, the two words mean the same thing.

I don't believe they do. While I agree with your definition of a chamfer, I think you're losing a subtlety here for a chamfer on a hole. I'm no machinist, but, as I understand it, specifying a chamfer or a countersink are two different things. A chamfer is used to guide the screw into the hole and the chamfered surface does not bear any weight, but a countersink must be much more precise because the screw will rest on the countersunk part, making that part weightbearing.

Am I wrong? Any machinist mags want to confirm?