Negotiating relocation

[nickwm21]

I am going through this right now... Two suggestions that are currently helping me.

Read your company policy on the subject, they probably have one and it will lay out your path forward. You might find some hidden gems - for example, my company will pay for an RE agent...

Calculate the difference in living expenses then ask for a COLA.

[concretejungle]

Your move has already been budgeted for. How much? That's the question. Obviously you want as much as possible but it's better to get it as part of your salary. You think your the only one? Are you sure because they'd be just as likely to go with another person who isn't a pita. Remember you can most likely make this up as part of your salary and although moving expenses are huge at the time they aren't in the long term. That said we had a certain amount we were given for relocation and whatever we used on the move was taken out of our rent budget. I sure as shit wasn't moving us so we got a couple quotes chose one and had the rest left over. Remember that they won't and you won't want them to move everything and as such you will be able to expense or get them to cover moving that stuff. It's cheaper to drive your car then have it shipped for example.

I can add a bit more later but this type of thing isn't as good as it used to be. Most likely they won't pay for your house but you don't sound like your selling it. Dude above gets his RE agent paid for. I'd be surprised if most companies still did this but if it's in the policy then there you go.

It's easier for them to justify an actual expense such as 3 months rent instead of a signing bonus.

I have no idea about taxes but you might want an accountant just because. We've always had one so I'm not sure how she did our relocation.

[systemoverblow'd]

Not sure on this one actually. Pretty sure if your company gives you money, it will count towards earned income on your taxes.

You might be able to then tax deduct as a moving expense afterwards.

If it comes out as normal wages and taxed at the normal rate. However, if the company is into relocating maybe it comes out taxed a reduced rate? I really have no idea, just thinking outloud.

[stfu&gbtw]

I just read through that IRS doc. That's all fairly clear actually... Seems my expenses are definitely deductible. How the money comes in should be irelevant. I don't see why it would be beneficial to get into some drawn out process with the company to document all the expenses, fill out forms, engage in whatever their process might be - unless they want to come with some open-ended agreement about rent and COLA. Tough to know until I get the docs. We'll see... I really appreciate all the advice guys. Thanks.

[Supermoon]

Just FYI, my wife recently got moved and our moving bonus was taxed as a bonus, not as normal income which came out to like 50% of the total.

[stfu&gbtw]

Just FYI, my wife recently got moved and our moving bonus was taxed as a bonus, not as normal income which came out to like 50% of the total.

No shit.... Fuck man... The irs takes all the fun out of making money. The first half is rarely the fun part.

[stfu&gbtw]

It's easier for them to justify an actual expense such as 3 months rent instead of a signing bonus.

Thanks for all that info. This part is especially helpful. The rent's absurd... $3200/month, easy. Seems like it woukd be a lock to buy, but the taxes are 3%+/year, and it still expensive. Even if I get a mortgage for $2k (buy a fixer-upper for like $400k), it'll be another $1000/month in taxes and insurance and I'll be on the hook for maintaining the thing... Would like to keep this simpler than that ... If I could get them to pick that up for a while, that'd be good.

[DasBlunt]

not to harsh the mellow, but holy shit, a fixer upper for 400K is retarded talk. SF is nuts.

congrats, ask for hookers and blow, plus a helicopter.

[MTT]

Thanks for all that info. This part is especially helpful. The rent's absurd... $3200/month, easy. Seems like it woukd be a lock to buy, but the taxes are 3%+/year, and it still expensive. Even if I get a mortgage for $2k (buy a fixer-upper for like $400k), it'll be another $1000/month in taxes and insurance and I'll be on the hook for maintaining the thing... Would like to keep this simpler than that ... If I could get them to pick that up for a while, that'd be good.

dude! You have a family, you don't move into the Actual San Francisco!

You will be commuting from another City or town somewhere within Driving Distance of the BART Line. find Dublin, and search for houses with 30 miles of there.

You can have a nice life, Work in San Fran, visit, But Actually have a nice life around (Relatively) normal people.

[jfost]

dude! You have a family, you don't move into the Actual San Francisco!...Actually have a nice life around (Relatively) normal people.

there's relatively normal coke heads who live in Snowy Valley in 2.5M rowhouses with an M3 in the driveway, ONE chair in the living room and a mattress on the floor up on level #3... you can dine with them at the Tapas joint on the corner from 11pm to 2am almost nightly...

Were you looking for more of a "family" feel?

[krp8128]

if you are worth enough (usually C-suite) they'll cover the difference between old and new/ cover selling the old place.

semi standard, ime as a lackey:

moving you + family (plane tickets)
moving shit (moving firm)
moving car (or cost of driving)

couple days/weeks in a hotel/motel

"pre moving house hunting trip"

cash bonus to cover taxes on above + extra

This basically describes me last time around. ^ months out of college, was living out of state with parents and staying locally with friends until I found a place. $2k covered a plane trip back home, a Penske truck and my security deposit at the new place. Wish i had asked for more, cause they paid no problem.

similar situation a couple times and how I got out to CO years ago.....

Hugh covered this well but make sure you really lock down the bonus to cover the extra taxes, it will come through as revenue for you and could jump you into the next tax bracket which can hurt.

I also negotiated rent in new area to cover expenses while trying to sell my old house. On first move it took 13 months to sell house, that was a good move on my part and saved my ass $$$$ ... only thing company asked for was a no quit clause so I would not run out on them, I considered that job security for the duration of contract. I negotiated a 100% pay back if I quit in first year, 50% if I quit second year, pay 0 if they laid me off or fired, make sure you get that somewhere as I have seen a friend get really screwed by not reading fine print. Bad situation for all but company was dying and lay offs going down, they laid him off and then sued to get the move $$ back, never had to pay but a big pain in the ass for a couple years.

This. I had a 6 month payback clause attached to that $2k. Obviously more $$=more time. Make sure it says if you get canned they are out.

If it comes out as normal wages and taxed at the normal rate. However, if the company is into relocating maybe it comes out taxed a reduced rate? I really have no idea, just thinking outloud.

Just FYI, my wife recently got moved and our moving bonus was taxed as a bonus, not as normal income which came out to like 50% of the total.

Yep, mine was also treated as a bonus, i.e. no taxes at the time but it got added on as income at tax time (by my accountant, taxes were a mess that year). I was able to deduct the expenses though.



I'm currently looking at another relocation, while I don't need $30k I certainly am not going to be able to do it for $2k this time around. I have a lease that I will be breaking, more nice furniture (not parting with it), more tools, a mattress and to top it off I'm not anticipating having friends to stay with so I will likely need temporary digs. I can budget for the moving expenses, its the rent that is a big ? in my mind. I'm thinking start at $10k and go from there.

Does that seem reasonable for a single guy at 27?

[stfu&gbtw]

dude! You have a family, you don't move into the Actual San Francisco!

You will be commuting from another City or town somewhere within Driving Distance of the BART Line. find Dublin, and search for houses with 30 miles of there.

You can have a nice life, Work in San Fran, visit, But Actually have a nice life around (Relatively) normal people.

I dunno about that... It seems like the only way I'll have any shot at seeing my family - and my daughter especially, is if we all live right there. As soon as sitting in traffic to park walk to catch a train to and walk to the office, blah, blah, blah, 1 hour + each way is pretty much a given. These guys are saying all the right things about work/life balance and flexibility and whatnot, but that's all BS. My buddy is getting a new team together, it's all fairly high speed shit, and we're going to be working our asses off. I might be able to swing a 6-5 schedule on the reg, and be home for dinner 9/10. Right where the office is there are some nice condos and good private schools. The whole routine can be within 10 minutes walk of the condo. Seems like a solid investment in remembering what my family looks like.

[Diesel]

So, if you haven't already, talk with your company on relo policy. In most larger companies, they have a set policy dictated by the level of the position. I've never seen a 'negotiable' relo policy, but occasionally there might be some flexiblity for lump sum payments to you.

The lump sum IS taxed like a bonus, so most employers will "gross it up", meaning they'll pay the taxes on it for you, and you still receive the cash in hand. So, for example, if you have been promised 5k towards expenses, the employer will budget 7500, and pay the 2500 in taxes so that you actually get the 5k. Make sense?

If you receive any benefit beyond a lump sum, you will probably be put in touch with the employer's contracted relocation service. They will assign you a representative who will walk you through all aspects of the move, and help you through all the parts and pieces of it. House hunting trips, lodging while in transition, packing and shipping, RE agents, etc. They will also provide you with a complete year end summary of relo expenses for tax purposes.

HTH...

[GimpToo]

s&g - good thinking on the time with family . . . also, good for the kids to have some experience to city life . . . I grew up a city kid and now live in the country - while it's a great life, peeps without a bit of city learning are overwhelmed sometimes with life experiences - often accusing those with experience as 'you think you're better than us' . . . and, they mean it . . . but, it is what it is and the experience of city life is great

[keipow]

relo package is as hugh says, usually pre-tax. it doesn't make sense for you to have them pack and ship everything (the moving cost, the hotel stays, the flights are all taxable) for you unless you have big household and children. for less than 3 ppl or less than 5000lbs of stuff, take the cash package.

[stfu&gbtw]

relo package is as hugh says, usually pre-tax. it doesn't make sense for you to have them pack and ship everything (the moving cost, the hotel stays, the flights are all taxable) for you unless you have big household and children. for less than 3 ppl or less than 5000lbs of stuff, take the cash package.

interesting... thanks. I'm 25 mins away from the meeting, so, TR to follow...

Well, no good TR unfortunately. The HR guy completely dropped the ball. Didn't have any info about me or the position, had no idea what we were talking about, just wanted to email a copy of the benefits package... I spoke to the guys after and they were pretty pissed off that it went like that - they felt they had provided everything HR needed to make the offer.. Not sure what the next step is.

[stfu&gbtw]

So, for whatever reason, HR came with low-ball offer and they aren't even vaguely interested in negotiating. Seems strange considering the team recruited me for this. But to listen to the HR guy, I must be dying of thirst, and he's got the last glass of water on the planet. I countered, but I'm pretty sure the HR guy just shit canned my file. The head of the team is a MD, but even he seems powerless to affect the process. I can't say I learned anything about negotiating here as the HR rep was happy to just interrupt me to say he didn't care whether I took the job or not. What a strange organization. Anyway, after seeing all this BS in action, I'm glad I won't be going to work for them! Nice to see that garbage up front, rather than when I got there.

[4matic]

So, for whatever reason, HR came with low-ball offer and they aren't even vaguely interested in negotiating. Seems strange considering the team recruited me for this. But to listen to the HR guy, I must be dying of thirst, and he's got the last glass of water on the planet. I countered, but I'm pretty sure the HR guy just shit canned my file. The head of the team is a MD, but even he seems powerless to affect the process. I can't say I learned anything about negotiating here as the HR rep was happy to just interrupt me to say he didn't care whether I took the job or not. What a strange organization. Anyway, after seeing all this BS in action, I'm glad I won't be going to work for them! Nice to see that garbage up front, rather than when I got there.

Like Diesel said and is precisely what my company does, relocation cost is a formula based compensation and not negotiable.

[stfu&gbtw]

Like Diesel said and is precisely what my company does, relocation cost is a formula based compensation and not negotiable.

These guys didn't offer any relo. The salary was a low-ball. The whole conversation was like something from bizarro land

[jamesp]

HR guy sounds like a power tripping tool. Recruiting for what sounds like senior position & he won't even have a discussion? WTF? As you say sounds like a good thing you discovered this now & not a month into the job.

[stfu&gbtw]

HR guy sounds like a power tripping tool. Recruiting for what sounds like senior position & he won't even have a discussion? WTF? As you say sounds like a good thing you discovered this now & not a month into the job.

Yeah, that seems to be the consensus among the other people involved. The way the org is set up, I'm not sure anyone can do anything about it. Doesn't matter that much to me - would have been fun to work with those guys again, but not so much fun that I'd lose money to do it... lol... If the team can find a way to get around this guy, I'll still talk to them about it, but otherwise, I've got a job already. Piss on it...

[nealric]

Just FYI, my wife recently got moved and our moving bonus was taxed as a bonus, not as normal income which came out to like 50% of the total.

Just FYI, this is a myth. There is no special tax rate for bonuses. They are taxed exactly the same as any other ordinary income. However, they may be subject to a special withholding rate. Often that withholding is too much, so you get the difference back with your tax refund.

[nickwm21]

So, for whatever reason, HR came with low-ball offer and they aren't even vaguely interested in negotiating.

Why did you even negotiate with HR? Wrong person to talk to about money in my opinion, HR will just follow the book 100% of the time. I bet there is someone with real power in your organization that will be overseeing your new role, that can actually help.

[Supermoon]

Just FYI, this is a myth. There is no special tax rate for bonuses. They are taxed exactly the same as any other ordinary income. However, they may be subject to a special withholding rate. Often that withholding is too much, so you get the difference back with your tax refund.

Ah, ok. Thanks for the clarification. All I know is that the check we got was for like 50% of what we were paid. It'll be nice to get some of that back later.

[grskier]

HR isn't who should be negotiating, they should only be helping set ranges. A range for hiring bonus, or relocation bonus, and/or hiring max, etc.