Sales mags- how do you guard against the firm firing you and keeping your clients?

**OldLarry** · 07-05-2013, 04:31 PM

Have an opportunity with a pretty interesting start up but wonder what would prevent them from giving me the axe after a predetermined period of time once I bring a shitload of customers on board.

We seem to have iron out what happens in year 2, etc., but it seems to me they cold still say "old larrynis too old/bald/cynical/paranoid" so we had to let him go and keep all of his clients at some point, no?

Client interaction is somewhat marginal once product is sold/ up and running...

**georgio** · 07-05-2013, 04:40 PM

Presumably the potential upside of keeping you around (a shit load more sales) would be what would entice them to keep you around...

**OldLarry** · 07-05-2013, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by georgio

Presumably the potential upside of keeping you around (a shit load more sales) would be what would entice them to keep you around...

Right- audience is limited to around 400 customers at the very high end. Issue is what happens after that.. Or when they realize I am making more $ than he guys who started the firm given the payout they propose...

**flatlander#2** · 07-05-2013, 09:13 PM

Learn as much tech as possible about product. Determine what next step/iteration will be. Anticipate their next steps(s). They shitcan you just make the product you sold piss out of better on own.

**neufox47** · 07-06-2013, 04:59 AM

A contract for a specific period.

Do thy have competitors? If you bring the clients in, why can't you bring the clients elsewhere?

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**OldLarry** · 07-06-2013, 07:48 AM

There is only one competitor with a somewhat similar model- product is likely inferior and they've been around for a while so any potential customers are probably already on board.

I dunno- have to see what the proposal looks like in writing...

**neufox47** · 07-06-2013, 05:07 PM

You could ask for language that if they lay you off or terminate you without cause, you get another year or 18 months of actual commissions from all of your clients.

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**Hott Butt Mud** · 07-06-2013, 05:33 PM

How much 'tech' is there to learn in "high-end" Butt Plug sales?

**OldLarry** · 07-07-2013, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Hott Butt Mud

How much 'tech' is there to learn in "high-end" Butt Plug sales?

This, coming from a dude who chose the user name "hot butt mud"? Seriously?

**Ghostofcarl** · 07-09-2013, 02:41 PM

Well, you're screwed. It's their customers, you are just a tool to bring in those customers. Once they have the customers, they don't need you. No one is paying a realtor over and over and over. Use 'em, pay 'em, get rid of them.

But, you do have some skills. Figure out how you can do this again for someone else, how you can keep relationships with these clients or how you can offer that service to the same clients. How can you take those same skills and leverage them for equity at another business? Then it doesn't matter.

Good luck

**georgio** · 07-09-2013, 04:13 PM

Without knowing much of anything about this company, what stage it's at, or what market it's in... These would be my suggestions. (Credentials: co-founded a startup 4 years ago and have been involved in every hire/fire since then)

1) If stock options are on the table pursue a bonus structure based on options. Potentially structure it so if you were let go it would be at your discretion whether they had to buy out your options or if you kept them.

2) What is the value of the addressable market? Enough that if you sold it to every potential customer you could retire based on your commissions? If so, they will want to keep you around for as long as you're selling shit. And if you get to the end of the rainbow ... Then retire.

3) Assuming the previous point isn't the case... What is the founder's/current owner's plan after you sell 400 units? Further the product to sell more? Or sit there and collect subscription fees until they retire? If its the later, it may not be a company you should be that interested in working for in the first place.

4) Ask to structure things such that you get a lower commission for new sales but are guaranteed commission on renewals for a year or two. That decreases their upside to firing you because they're still paying you those commissions regardless.

5) Be a fucking mercenary. There will always be sales jobs if you're good. Make your cash and get out.

6) I accepted years ago that the sales people would be the highest paid people in our company. As long as they are profitable and increasing the value of the business then good for them, I want them to make a killing (and make me a killing in the process). Don't know how these guys feel about that but they may not care that you're making more than them.

My .02 every company is different.

**hawkgt** · 07-09-2013, 04:55 PM

There is no real way to avoid this in any company. They pay you to sell and sell is what you do.... best approach is a personal connection with the clients. If they trust you and your performing for them with product / service you sold them good chance they will stick with you. Of course you can never tell with any mgmt or client and end up on the street in no time.

Of course you could always black mail them... Christmas and New Years parties seem to deliver the best results.

**systemoverblow'd** · 07-09-2013, 05:00 PM

Wouldn't your job with them to be get them (the company) customers? Is it part of your contract that these are your connections and yours only? Sounds unreasonable to sell these people on the companies product and then expect them to jump ship with you when you feel your time has run its course.

But who knows... I'm no sales person.

**skiHOG** · 07-09-2013, 07:26 PM

Keep your client relationships top priority. They're loyal to you, not the company/product. If the company pushes you out the door your clients will follow YOU. I'm sure you'll have an idea if something like that might happen, so make sure to go your clients in advance and talk them through a possible transition.

**splat** · 07-09-2013, 08:06 PM

It's all in those papers they expect you to sign without really reading when hired. Haven't even seen the commission word mentioned. Or non-competes, which are often structured to keep you from taking the clients to another company (competitor) for a long enough period that the customer forgets whether you're worth switching for and you've moved on. Relationship based sales are the tits for stealing the clients with you when you go. I've been through the wringer on the lawsuit end of what you're reaching for re: future commissions based on sales I made in long term projects that would develop into money about two years after closing.

Originally Posted by flatlander#2

Learn as much tech as possible about product. Determine what next step/iteration will be. Anticipate their next steps(s). They shitcan you just make the product you sold piss out of better on own.

dude. call me sometime. you got a new gig doing the same thing???

**BigDaddy** · 07-09-2013, 08:33 PM

It does happen, so you are wise to be concerned.

A friend was the first importer of Boeri and he set up their entire US network. A few years after that, they realized they didn't need him, so they canned him.

**farmer** · 07-09-2013, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

Wouldn't your job with them to be get them (the company) customers? Is it part of your contract that these are your connections and yours only? Sounds unreasonable to sell these people on the companies product and then expect them to jump ship with you when you feel your time has run its course.

But who knows... I'm no sales person.

I agree. Being on the other side of the coin, and buying products from vendors on a regular basis, I am more concerned about the product than which one of you snake oil peddlers is currently lying to me.

**OldLarry** · 07-10-2013, 07:26 PM

They want me for my connections and relationships.

It's very closely related to something (more acuraely, the things) I've been doing for a long time, so, to flatter myself, there is some level of credibility that I bring to the table, but truthfully once I bring the, on board they can kick me out the door. Working on building it into the contracts that commissions last in perpetuity.

Guys who are behind it are solid, so the product is I'm sure. My really question is whether they can run a business.

Being a good product guy and running a business are two different things.

Appreciate the advice as always. I'm the sort of dude that people are surprised is a sales person- tend to partner with people and they realize I sold them something later, heh. Nobody is annoyed with the bill (knock wood).

**OldLarry** · 07-10-2013, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by farmer

I agree. Being on the other side of the coin, and buying products from vendors on a regular basis, I am more concerned about the product than which one of you snake oil peddlers is currently lying to me.

I tend to stun people with reckless honestly- it's why they take my call when I switch jobs...

**Conundrum** · 07-15-2013, 04:43 PM

Have a good attorney read your no-compete before signing if they ask you to sign one. Most of them won't hold up...depends on the state though.

Build residuals (retention) into your contract.

Ask for ownership in the co upon reaching certain goals.

If there's only 400 potential customers and it's a one time sell, you better make a lot of loot up front or the owners had better have a model for future profit (innovation or service contracts). Knowing what little I know about the tech industry, it sounds like your guys are looking to build a good income statement and then sell to Microsoft or whoever the big dog is in that space that hasn't quite taken the time to build their own product. Where does that leave you? Get ownership. Your connections are what is making them money. If their product was that good, they wouldn't need you.