Lawn Tech: How does one fire up a new lawn?

[Buster Highmen]

Had a flat swath cleared of alders and bushes (it had been cleared and riprapped years ago as required by the local FD but then just went to crap and has been a pain in the ass to maintain).
Long story short: had it graded and filled with gravel then smeared with 1-2" of soil mixed with clay.

The plan is to make a grass tennis court.

So I seeded it 2 months ago and it's been limping along. I've been amending it with steer manure (sling shit V-here-V and there huh?) and running a lawnmower over leaves I get out of our woods to mulch in some nutrients, sift some ash from wood burning fireplace over it.

But it's just weak. Most of it hasn't grown more than an inch in these two last months (admittedly, it is the Puget Sound). I water it when it's (edit) been sunny in the morning. Done some aerating with ski poles which seemd to help some...

So what's the loving lawn lore out there?

[lynchdogger]

Where to start? Seeding in the spring is always tuff because of competition with crabgrass and weeds and new seedlings do not handle summer drought well.
There are ways around this but really later summer fall is best time to seed. Hate to say but start over. Your problems are bigger than this.
Your design was flawed from the get go and too much wrong to list. Quick Google search for "best soil structure for grass tennis court" will get you there.
Good luck. A seeded lawn is not fully established for 2-3 years especially considering the stress of tennis. Seed choice will be key. Good luck.

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[nobueno]

Do a soil sample before you go putting ash and shit on it. The manure is way too hot to put directly on new grass unless its been composted first. Grass uses a lot of nitrogen. You should add a healthy dose of it 4-6 weeks after grass emerges. If its not growing there's a 98% chance it's because it doesn't have enough nitrogen.

Don't water when its sunny. The water beads up on the blades and it can actually get burned by the sun and a lot evaporates on sunny days. Water at night or very early in the am.

No idea about growing a tennis court but any grass is going to need more than an inch or two of soil. 6" is probably the minimum for grass to develop a healthy root system and be able to bounce back from heavy traffic.

What type of grass did you use? You'll never mow a bluegrass, rye or fescue short enough for a tennis court and still keep it healthy.

So yea... it sounds like starting over is probably going to be the best bet. Seed in the fall, let it over winter and get a jump start on the weeds in the spring.

[Buster Highmen]

Hmmm. I'm wondering how my lack of detail above can grow into 'flawed from the get go and too much wrong to list'. I followed the directions regarding the clay content soil and tamping, have drainage pipes, etc...

But I had not read that spring is the wrong time to start this. If I just have to wait, so be it.

So I should just keep watering sparsely (usually early in the morning before the sun hits it) and skip the steer manure? Yeah, we started it about 7 weeks ago, so the grass has been growing for 6 weeks. I just started doing the maure last week with the grass between 1 and 2 inches long.

Grass type is "sun and shade" and then "tough" mix.

Note that I'm not looking to match Wimbledon, but just cut the grass on the lowest setting on the mower.

[nobueno]

Spring is just harder to fight all the weeds and keep it evenly moist so the seedlings don't die. It develops more roots in the late fall and winter and can compete better the following spring. Heat can ne tougher on new seedlings too.

Steer manure is great but it needs to be composted first. If its not I'd go out and just buy some fertilizer that is heavy on the nitrogen. You can burn it with too much so follow directions. More isn't always better.

You don't want to drown or starve your grass with water. Soak it really well over night so the water gets deep into the soil so the roots will go deeper. You can let it dry out during the day so the roots chase the water deep in the soil.

[nobueno]

Sun and shade mix is most likely a fescue or rye mix and the tough could be a bluegrass. These are going to do their best at 3" long. They'll do ok at 1 1/2" but that still isn't short enough to get a tennis ball to bounce.

In two min of tennis court research it looks like they're 100% rye in most places. Thats probably going to be your best bet. You'll get much better grass seed contacting a turf company than grabbing those mixes at a big box store.

[Buster Highmen]

What grass type would tolerate a 1" or less length?

[nobueno]

A Bermuda grass (warm weather grass) would do well that short and rye can be cut that short but I don't think it would do its best.

[Buster Highmen]

I'd read that rye is the standard for grass courts in England. We're in the Seattle area, so the sun is pretty weak here and I thought that following the suggestions for England would do OK. Colorado sun is like 10 times stronger.

I guess my biggest question is whether grass 1-2 inches tall is normal after seeding it 8 weeks ago.

[nobueno]

Depending how long it took to emerge and how much sun its getting that could be about right but you said it hasn't shown any growth lately. That's what makes me think it's nitrogen deficient.

[Vt-Freeheel]

Where to start? Seeding in the spring is always tuff because of competition with crabgrass and weeds and new seedlings do not handle summer drought well.
There are ways around this but really later summer fall is best time to seed. Hate to say but start over. Your problems are bigger than this.
Your design was flawed from the get go and too much wrong to list. Quick Google search for "best soil structure for grass tennis court" will get you there.
Good luck. A seeded lawn is not fully established for 2-3 years especially considering the stress of tennis. Seed choice will be key. Good luck.

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This ^^^^^

+this



=this

[Jethro]

We tried a raised bed garden a few years ago. We mixed in too much composted horse manure/straw and burned the garden. I would be careful with the manure you use

[Buster Highmen]

Depending how long it took to emerge and how much sun its getting that could be about right but you said it hasn't shown any growth lately. That's what makes me think it's nitrogen deficient.

OK, will try some nitrogen fertilizer.
FWIW we get this stuff at the local Grange, not Deep Homo.


(NSA are you listening? Nitro fertilizer).

Thanks.

We tried a raised bed garden a few years ago. We mixed in too much composted horse manure/straw and burned the garden. I would be careful with the manure you use

I have a compost pile of horse manure that we use for our veggie/flower gardens. Works great, but is sufficiently "cellared".

[lynchdogger]

OK, will try some nitrogen fertilizer.
FWIW we get this stuff at the local Grange, not Deep Homo.


(NSA are you listening? Nitro fertilizer).

Thanks.



I have a compost pile of horse manure that we use for our veggie/flower gardens. Works great, but is sufficiently "cellared".

Starter fertilizer every 4-6 weeks for first 3 feedings then fertilize every 6-8 weeks. No weed control until late summer 4 weeks prior to re-seeding in fall.

I would check with local sports facilities growing grass courts in your area and ask for assistance specific to Seattle weather and soil.

Blindly adding nutrients to soil is a recipe for disaster and certainly hot manure is no bueno. Soil test is an excellent call.

Still think your soil structure is fucked. What is clay content / percentage? Too much clay + extreme wet weather could create anaerobic conditions. Also 1-2" of soil is not much to support a healthy root system. Was that really the recommendation?




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[IAlove]

Gotta be a troll...

[bushman]

Don't forget the fancy stripes.

[Buster Highmen]

Starter fertilizer every 4-6 weeks for first 3 feedings then fertilize every 6-8 weeks. No weed control until late summer 4 weeks prior to re-seeding in fall.

Check. Hey, it's WA: tehre's no weed control.

I would check with local sports facilities growing grass courts in your area and ask for assistance specific to Seattle weather and soil.

Don't know of any one else around here doing this. Scandanavians weren't big on lawn sports.

Blindly adding nutrients to soil is a recipe for disaster and certainly hot manure is no bueno. Soil test is an excellent call.

Still think your soil structure is fucked. What is clay content / percentage? Too much clay + extreme wet weather could create anaerobic conditions. Also 1-2" of soil is not much to support a healthy root system. Was that really the recommendation?

Yup, I've been guessing about what to add.

Are you calling nobueno hot manure? Settle your innert00b spats elsewhere.
...
No, hey, thanks for the pointers.
Clay/soil is 50/50 appx. Did this to put down a layer that will retain some water per some instructions I read that said to do this and tamp it down, then just add seed and keep moist.
None of the other instructions were very explicit about growing rates and what to add...so will try some nitrogen fert per nobueno's suggestion.




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[lynchdogger]

Check. Hey, it's WA: tehre's no weed control.


Don't know of any one else around here doing this. Scandanavians weren't big on lawn sports.

Yup, I've been guessing about what to add.

Are you calling nobueno hot manure? Settle your innert00b spats elsewhere.
...
No, hey, thanks for the pointers.
Clay/soil is 50/50 appx. Did this to put down a layer that will retain some water per some instructions I read that said to do this and tamp it down, then just add seed and keep moist.
None of the other instructions were very explicit about growing rates and what to add...so will try some nitrogen fert per nobueno's suggestion.




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[/QUOTE]

I think your mixture has too much clay. My brief search saw 20% to be best? A soil with over 50% clay is considered heavy clay and can be too acidic ph wise and affect nutrient absorption and therefore growth.
Add gypsum or greensand (but check nitrogen level and any restrictions with new seed). And / or aerate before seeding and top dress with gypsum or greensand.
Gypsum takes time (multiple applications) but should not make court too slow like adding too much organic matter would. PH test and soil test!
Proper fertilizing is on-going as is soil testing and adding proper nutrients especially for high traffic lawn like a tennis court. Lawns are needy and greedy.
Also I did not even look at other comments or user names until your comment - sorry no bueno. But I do not agree with watering lawns at nite. Can lead to disease.
The new seeded lawns or sod I install I water 3x's a day ( early mornin, mid morning, early afternoon). I water for 15 mins or slightly more for first month or more if needed then back off to longer waterings every other day or longer intervals for established lawns.
Lawns are PIA. So much for a relaxing summer of tennis.

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[nobueno]

Clay can be nasty stuff to work with. Too much clay and there is too much compaction and no air (which is what sounds like is part of your problem if aeration helped a first year lawn). Sand helps drainage but sand+clay=concrete. Every grass court that I remember seeing, or green for that matter, seems to be mostly sand not clay...

I only said to water at night because he made it sound like it was drying out all day. If it's warm dry weather watering at night is the only way to go. If its moist then it can breed fungus and disease. Also its only good to water an estblished lawn at night. If these are seedlings still growing they need consistent moisture throughout the day.

[NmbrdDays]

Watering at night can give you some fungus growth as well. Water early morning so whatever isn't needed will evaporate later in the morning. Seeding can be tricky like lynchy said. You're best best is sod.

[Stikki]

Don't know of any one else around here doing this. Scandanavians weren't big on lawn sports.

Jefferson Park Lawn Bowling Club or Lower Woodland Lawn Bowling.

[Buster Highmen]

dang, I hadn't thought of lawn bowling...but I did just add some (b000m) nitrogen (b000m) fertilizer (b0000m). Hey there NSA!

[steved]

Lynchie's got it right BH...a PITA. 1" is ~50% too long for anykind of true bounce. It takes a LOT of maintenance...but if you're obsessed...my $.01 would be to measure out your dims, de-weed for ~12"(left & right of)where the side/end-lines will be, then cut/dig out, de-weed, treat , then replace with the real thing(sod of the real stuff) for everything that'll be "IN"...including area for the 3"+ lines. The $$$ spent will save you $$$ in the end..imho.
Don't know if you've played on the stuff much...how would 90% chance of bad bounces on every hit grab ya'?.... Rally of over 4 hits being the max gets pretty old pretty quick... Often more relaxing to go play in the road..
Hope you do that with a sitdown tractor bushman...

[Buster Highmen]

The nitrogen fertilizer (b000m b000m NSA!) really did the trick: grass is much lusher and the bald spots are filling in.
We'll work it this summer and plan on bringing in some top dressing in the fall.

[nobueno]

good to hear. top dressing in the fall is super important. it helps the root system grow deep during the fall and winter. also, if the fertilizer worked this quick it was a fast release. easy come easy go. water washes away nitrogen and some are washed away easier than others. you could go get some alfalfa pellets (seedless) and spread them on the lawn. they take awhile to break down but they'll last longer and provide a more consistent supply of n.