Alpine Bindings for Smaller Folks: Pivot 14 vs. 18

[DoWork]

wouldn't a PX15 have the same toe? though checking site don't seem to market P15s or PX 15s anymore

No. The PX toe and heel are made purely of bad ideas and foregone conclusions and should only be used as paper weights, and even then they'll prerelease your papers in a stiff breeze.

[sar13]

Am I the only one who thinks it's odd that the OP is 5'6" and wears a size 28 boot?

[Beyond]

OP is in about the 20th percentile for height and the 65th percentile for boot size. Happens.

[dark_star]

What can I say, I wear big gloves too, if you know what I mean...

[.lloydchristmas]

I weight 145 and ski a 8 din as well and I have fks 140s. I haven't had them long but no durability issues of course.
The 18 does have a better toe piece. It has vertical release and is mostly metal but the 14 still has the pivot heel which is awesome and the toe piece is still really good.

[.lloydchristmas]

No. The PX toe and heel are made purely of bad ideas and foregone conclusions and should only be used as paper weights, and even then they'll prerelease your papers in a stiff breeze.

In my experience with the Rossi axial 12 they've been fine. They're no fks but a great intermediate binding.

[DougW]

No. The PX toe and heel are made purely of bad ideas and foregone conclusions and should only be used as paper weights, and even then they'll prerelease your papers in a stiff breeze.

are you sure on the toes, the pX 15 and px18 look exactly the same as the fks18 (one piece casting )
and on the look site they have two types of toes, pivot/fks or dual action
though you don't seem to get the pivot toe with a fks 14 set.

[gwat]

All metal toes are identical px15/px18/p15/p18/fks185/fks155

The plastic toes did change between the p14 and px14 but seemed to me it was purely cosmetic and the toes functioned no different. Never heard of these bad px toes before.

[Spats]

All metal toes are identical px15/px18/p15/p18/fks185/fks155

The plastic toes did change between the p14 and px14 but seemed to me it was purely cosmetic and the toes functioned no different. Never heard of these bad px toes before.

Agree. I've skied the 10 DIN version of the plastic toes since the Powmag days on some reasonably rowdy lines (e.g. everywhere in Las Lenas) and never had a single issue.

Keep in mind I'm someone who refuses to ski Fritschis because they have near-zero torsional stiffness and have ejected me in no-fall zones (where I was extremely lucky to not pinball all the way down). If you weigh less than I do (which OP does) the plastic toe isn't your problem.

Frankly, most of people wanting metal toepieces is because they kick the toepiece over and over to scrape the snow off their boot. IMHO. Or because they use bindings so old they're no longer indemnified, which isn't the case with the PX.

[neonorchid]

I'm close to the OP's size @142lbs 5'6.5"/295 BSL, and currently use a Look Pivot 14 set at 5.5 DIN.

For the real possibility of retention/release (elasticity), being more optimum closer to the center of the bindings DIN range, i would've preferred the binding to go lower then 5 DIN. It doesn't, so not much i could do other then going with something else. Obviously, i didn't.

[DougW]

I weight 145 and ski a 8 din as well and I have fks 140s. I haven't had them long but no durability issues of course.
The 18 does have a better toe piece. It has vertical release and is mostly metal but the 14 still has the pivot heel which is awesome and the toe piece is still really good.

Don't think that is right, p18 toe all metal but don't think it has vertical release, the P14 and below do have ~ vertical release

pivot toe P15 all metalFour points of contact on the boot provide maximum power transmission
•
High vertical and lateral elastic travel provides shock absorption and reduces inadvertent release
•
40mm lateral travel
•
72mm AFD reduces friction during release
•
Low ramp angle: 0.0º Pivot 180 / 0.5º Pivot 140
•
All-metal reinforced housing increases binding integrity
•
Wide mounting zone for better contact with wide skis

PX14/FKS 14 toe not all metal, multi part housing
FULL DRIVE / DUAL ACTION
•
Four points of contact with the boot provide maximum power transmission
•
180 degree multi-directional release capabilities aid release
•
High vertical and lateral elastic travel provides shock absorption and reduces inadvertent release
•
45mm lateral travel
•
Reinforced housing increases binding integrity
•
Wide mounting zone for better contact with wide skis

from http://www.look-bindings.com/CG/CA/t...l-manuals.html

Canada ENg

[glademaster]

It's been covered in another thread and answered multiple times by Look/Rossignol, the P18 toes DO have full, multidirectional release, just like other lower DIN toes, they simply release using a different mechanism.

Don't think that is right, p18 toe all metal but don't think it has vertical release, the P14 and below do have ~ vertical release

pivot toe P15 all metalFour points of contact on the boot provide maximum power transmission
•
High vertical and lateral elastic travel provides shock absorption and reduces inadvertent release
•
40mm lateral travel
•
72mm AFD reduces friction during release
•
Low ramp angle: 0.0º Pivot 180 / 0.5º Pivot 140
•
All-metal reinforced housing increases binding integrity
•
Wide mounting zone for better contact with wide skis

PX14/FKS 14 toe not all metal, multi part housing
FULL DRIVE / DUAL ACTION
•
Four points of contact with the boot provide maximum power transmission
•
180 degree multi-directional release capabilities aid release
•
High vertical and lateral elastic travel provides shock absorption and reduces inadvertent release
•
45mm lateral travel
•
Reinforced housing increases binding integrity
•
Wide mounting zone for better contact with wide skis

from http://www.look-bindings.com/CG/CA/t...l-manuals.html

Canada ENg

[Beyond]

It's been covered in another thread and answered multiple times by Look/Rossignol, the P18 toes DO have full, multidirectional release, just like other lower DIN toes, they simply release using a different mechanism.

And to complete the repeat answer, it has a significantly beefier spring for vertical release, to allow for maching/landing in ways that would cause the 14 to release.

[SiSt]

And to complete the repeat answer, it has a significantly beefier spring for vertical release, to allow for maching/landing in ways that would cause the 14 to release.

Or disintegrate.

[Two06]

FKS/Pivot 18 FTW.
Fuck that plastic mang, plus you'll look way more core with the extra din range

[Jvhowube]

Reviving an old thread here:

I ski Pivots at 9 DIN on all of my skis (powder down to park). I have a pair of P18s on the way, and through all of my research it seems that running 9 DIN on the 18s should be fine. But all of those answers are on ancient threads like this one. Any info on this?

[BC.]

Reviving an old thread here:

I ski Pivots at 9 DIN on all of my skis (powder down to park). I have a pair of P18s on the way, and through all of my research it seems that running 9 DIN on the 18s should be fine. But all of those answers are on ancient threads like this one. Any info on this?

It’s fine.......but the Pivot15 is coming back next year to probably address this question.

[Jvhowube]

It’s fine.......but the Pivot15 is coming back next year to probably address this question.

Yah I wish I were mounting up these skis next year with P15s ... But here I am. Thanks tho. Just really wanted the full metal to ensure toe longevity.

[BC.]

Yep...I’d just stick with the P18....gold standard. Your 9 DIN is not a problem. Put P15 on your next pair of sticks.

[pfluffenmeister]

Search function sucks and I can't find the mega- Pivot/FKS thread, so ...
I acquired some old stock NIB Rossignol Pro180s (box says 1999).
Also some new wide break baseplates to go along with them.

Ski them like it's 1999? or will I die? (from skiing them)
Also, I note that while they have a metal toe, it appears that the toe wings are separate, with a split in the middle, like a P14?

[skuff]

Search function sucks and I can't find the mega- Pivot/FKS thread, so ...
I acquired some old stock NIB Rossignol Pro180s (box says 1999).
Also some new wide break baseplates to go along with them.

Ski them like it's 1999? or will I die? (from skiing them)
Also, I note that while they have a metal toe, it appears that the toe wings are separate, with a split in the middle, like a P14?

Rock out on those bad Larrys.

I bought some NIB FKS 155s from Samhop ~2 years ago (thanks man!) circa 2006 that are working just fine. They did need a little penetrating oil on the "hinge points" which allowed them to operate a little more smoothly.

Do you have any photos of the split toe? Never saw an 18 din Rossignol with a toe like that.

[gaijin]

IDK, after an entire life on skis it seems I most regret being such a pussy-ass cheapskate when it comes to bindings.

There is no way I would mount a 22yo binding. But I’m an idiot. Never really made the right binding decisions in the first place.


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[Supermoon]

Yeah there is no way I’m skiing those. Maybe if I could find a shop that would test them for me and they looked ok, but even then probably not.

The consequences of inconsistent releases are just too high.

[gaijin]

The springs are probably fine. I’d be worried about the degradation of the plastics.

I have a pair of ‘04 Fritsche freerides that terrify me to the point of no longer skiing them. I feel like the plastic is going to explode on some -10 day.

Part of me wants to up-cycle the OG Gotama they are mounted to but that makes zero sense.

Buy metal. And buy modern. Maybe you’ll get 15 years out of it. Maybe not. Plastic will always make you wish you had metal. That’s the pure truth.


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[ZomblibulaX]

I have a pair of ‘04 Fritsche freerides that terrify me to the point of no longer skiing them. I feel like the plastic is going to explode on some -10 day.

Pretty good odds of that happening back in '04 anyway.

Search function sucks and I can't find the mega- Pivot/FKS thread, so ...
I acquired some old stock NIB Rossignol Pro180s (box says 1999).
Also some new wide break baseplates to go along with them.

Ski them like it's 1999? or will I die? (from skiing them)
Also, I note that while they have a metal toe, it appears that the toe wings are separate, with a split in the middle, like a P14?

Split toe is the old Geze style toe, look even experimented with bringing it back in the PX race line a couple years ago. All the Rossi guys on the WC were running DH and SG on a metal toe with the same cast as the current px toe in the beginning of the season, 2018 iirc.

Markus Larson was skiing World Cup slalom on that exact toe piece (albeit, not the heel) in '14 and '15. Here's a shot of him at Sochi that you can see it pretty good:


They just spray painted it black to cover up the yellow rubber. I asked his tech at world champs in '15 why he was using that toe, and he just said, "Tomba."

Personally, I would likely ski those, but I would test them first, and they wouldn't be going on anything I'd really be pushing the envelope on. Family/work skis, gaper day, meadow skipper. NOS is a lot different than used, but they're still from last century.