Interviewing recent college grads: WTF is wrong with you?

[Tippster]

First of all, you realize you're quoting someone else then referring back to me? It seems like you're really trying to get at me from what other people are saying which doesn't make much sense.

Second, you took the word "slave" a bit too seriously. How about "unpaid servant." If you would read my posts I've come to terms with an unpaid internship that includes benefits like a highly desirable industry (working ON the mountain, filming pros). And what does the term slave labor have to do with crucial operations? Obviously you wouldn't want a slave doing your accounting, would you? I mean, no shit interns aren't doing anything important, that doesn't mean they don't deserve compensation. Why do you think corporations give a shit about their interns? You really think we should just blindly accept unpaid internships under the assumption that the business will take care of us? Ha ha ha.

The company I'm getting 11.25/hr from is purely a hourly rate. I clock in/clock out. No salary. WTF are you talking about free OT and shit? Where do you get that? That's salary stuff, I would hope no one is getting robbed of their hourly rate ESPECIALLY when it's below $20/hr. That is ludicrous. Simply out of the question theft. And BTW, it's just an in at the company. I'll be doing shit a high schooler could do. It's not even entry-level. It's just enough to hold me over until I find something better. I never said it was any worse or better than a 10/hr paid internship? You continue putting words in my mouth. Getting over this conversation.

Lastly, what was your point about connections? That you didn't have any so you had to work extra hard in life? Guess what dickface, if you're a friendly person they remember you and that's how connections are made. You can, but don't have to, get connections from your parents.. Maybe if you and advres didn't go off spouting assumptions about other peoples' lives and bitching about people more fortunate than you you'd have some. I have connections, I choose not to use them until I'm more proven with job experience.

You still think to seem I'm talking about unpaid internships for college credit. That is totally different and not unacceptable depending on conditions... Unpaid internships out of school, on the other hand, are a joke (unless it's like the one I noted above with other benefits). You seem to believe that all unpaid internships are a good source of experience and a foot into an industry. Some might be but there are DEFINITELY companies out there just looking for free labor. You're naive to believe otherwise.

I'm not claiming to know everything about internships.. I am claiming to know that there are businesses out there that can/will fuck you over if given the chance.

Relax, man. I wasn't trying to get personal. Yes I understand how multi-quotes work, but it seems my brain took a bit of a vacation last night.

Seems we're all on the smae wavelength: Unpaid (ie not even College credit) internships suck. Now back to everyone agreeing that Colleges do not do a good job preparing people for interviews.

[powski3]

I didn't read everything in here, but I will just chime in to add that the un-professionalism and incompetence definitely runs both ways. The hiring process is completely broken and so many HR departments are complete idiots, who treat quality job applicants like dirt, make them jump through pointless hoops just to apply to a database that never gets looked at, don't return calls or keep commitments, etc etc. Then many interviewers are completely unprepared and companies don't even know what they're looking for, except someone who's a "good fit" aka they seem cool based on a 20 minute convo and don't seem like too much of a threat to the interviewers own job. It's really demoralizing and frustrating for quality people out there looking right now to have to deal with completely incompetent morons standing in their way.

I really think there's a lot of talented and ambitious people going to waste on the sidelines or in jobs they aren't fit for in our country right now, partly due to the stupid hiring model clogged up by terrible software, incompetent HR departments, and unprepared and lazy interviewers.

Not really relevant to the specific instance initiating this thread, but my broader two cents.

[Toadman]

You should calm down and study the old guys day to day interaction. Life is not a meritocracy. When the layoffs come, it's not the best people who are kept. It's who you know counts a lot.

That wasn't the case for the most part at the company I work for. When the excrement hit the fan, a lot of the high dollar over 20 year guys got chopped. Owners went head hunting for the high priced execs. Senior VP's, COO, CFO, and some folks with over 30 years, and 6 figure salaries got chopped. I suspect all those folks were in total shock when the new director of HR came in and gave them the news. (They fired the acting HR director before bringing in the new guy.) Then when the blood bath was over the new director of HR was let go. I suspect he was just the hired gun to do the dirty work. It's better to know your shit, and do it right, and have info that none of your upper mgmt has, so that you have the value to be retained.

IME, the people getting let go were the dead weight, high priced, and unproductive types. It was basically a good opportunity for companies to unload that dead weight from the books.

I also think that's why you don't see the re-hiring going on. The productive employees stepped up. Stopped posting on FB or TGR all day long, and actually did their jobs...

[LegoSkier]

I didn't read everything in here, but I will just chime in to add that the un-professionalism and incompetence definitely runs both ways. The hiring process is completely broken and so many HR departments are complete idiots, who treat quality job applicants like dirt, make them jump through pointless hoops just to apply to a database that never gets looked at, don't return calls or keep commitments, etc etc. Then many interviewers are completely unprepared and companies don't even know what they're looking for, except someone who's a "good fit" aka they seem cool based on a 20 minute convo and don't seem like too much of a threat to the interviewers own job. It's really demoralizing and frustrating for quality people out there looking right now to have to deal with completely incompetent morons standing in their way.

I really think there's a lot of talented and ambitious people going to waste on the sidelines or in jobs they aren't fit for in our country right now, partly due to the stupid hiring model clogged up by terrible software, incompetent HR departments, and unprepared and lazy interviewers.

Not really relevant to the specific instance initiating this thread, but my broader two cents.

Saw this recently from linkedin: http://corcodilos.com/blog/6249/why-...iring-business

I totally agree with it that HR should never be involved in recruiting/hiring unless it is for things like final identity verification and onboarding. In our company (part of a huge conglomerate), hiring managers write and post all job descriptions, do all resume screening, phone screening, and managment of interview teams. No auto-screening is done and the only place HR is involved is coordinating interview schedules. Mind you this is for highly sought after scientists and engineers but it leads to better candidates and better hires and doesn't waste everybodys time.

[powski3]

Saw this recently from linkedin: http://corcodilos.com/blog/6249/why-...iring-business

I totally agree with it that HR should never be involved in recruiting/hiring unless it is for things like final identity verification and onboarding. In our company (part of a huge conglomerate), hiring managers write and post all job descriptions, do all resume screening, phone screening, and managment of interview teams. No auto-screening is done and the only place HR is involved is coordinating interview schedules. Mind you this is for highly sought after scientists and engineers but it leads to better candidates and better hires and doesn't waste everybodys time.

Could not agree more with that article. This pretty much sums it up:

HR routinely suggests that the high volume of applicants it must process explains its rude no-time-for-thank-yous-or-follow-ups behavior — while it expects job applicants to adhere to strict rules of professional conduct.

[Hugh Conway]

Could not agree more with that article. This pretty much sums it up:

It's inflation. Candidates and corps all think they are 10s and deserve to act and be treated like 10s. Most of them aren't. They don't need a 10 candidate, the 10 wouldn't take the job or wouldn't last long. They need an 8. But they know in their heart they are a 10 so they only look at 10s and are picky

same reason there are so many single women who bitch about being single.

[jahoney]

Relax, man. I wasn't trying to get personal. Yes I understand how multi-quotes work, but it seems my brain took a bit of a vacation last night.

Seems we're all on the smae wavelength: Unpaid (ie not even College credit) internships suck. Now back to everyone agreeing that Colleges do not do a good job preparing people for interviews.

it just gets annoying when people bash the college grads as a whole in gross generalizations, saying we're lazy entitled brats.. which is certainly true for some (like my ex roommate). you may not think you were getting personal but you were saying some things I find to be pretty insulting.

no hard feelings here.. i probably didn't need to get worked up about it

[hutash]

saying we're lazy entitled brats.. which is certainly true for some (like my ex roommate).

Wow, that is "exactly" what your ex roommate said.

[Dhelihiker]

I had an Indian Engineer Girl bring her brother into the interview. He wanted me to speak to him in a way. It was odd, I asked him to wait in the lobby. Bad interview altogether.

[farmer]

Engineering internships almost always pay, and many pay well. You can make 20k in a summer if you work hard after sophomore/junior year. But you are basically just selling your summer.

But in more competitive work environments, it totally makes sense to have unpaid internships. If they want it bad enough, they will take it, and gain experience above their peers. I have recently come to realize that lots of engineers are bad at understanding concepts like this.

And noone is making you take an unpaid internship. If you're college requires it, you are actually paying for the opportunity.

Of course we are "bad at understanding concepts like this"

Most of us are pretty good at understanding ethics though, and to quote APEGBC,

"uphold the principle of appropriate and adequate compensation for the performance of engineering and geoscience work"

My department head made it very clear part way though my first year (08/09) that there may be companies out there looking to take advantage of the shitty economy, and try to get away with offering unpaid internships. This would not be accepted, and you would NOT graduate if they found out that you did this. You aren't giving yourself an advantage or helping move your career along. You are fucking over every single student who comes after you by allowing low life employers to try and pull that sort of thing.

[farmer]

LOL.....

If I worked full time for what I made during my last internship it would have been around $80k per year. And that was without a degree. As a grad, it would have been well into 6 figures.

I was also running a team of a dozen other summer students, and occasionally training the new full time geos, managing our supply inventory, etc.

Tell me how not getting paid (or getting paid peanuts) sounds like a better idea.

[systemoverblow'd]

If I worked full time for what I made during my last internship it would have been around $80k per year. And that was without a degree. As a grad, it would have been well into 6 figures.

I was also running a team of a dozen other summer students, and occasionally training the new full time geos, managing our supply inventory, etc.

Tell me how not getting paid (or getting paid peanuts) sounds like a better idea.

That wasn't the argument I was responding to. You said many engineering students get paid about the same or more than I do now on internship. Which is false and you proved it. Thanks.

[farmer]

Really? Where did I say that?

[systemoverblow'd]

Really? Where did I say that?

My bad. I was LOLing what XavierD said and you happened to jump in the middle with a retarded comment not pertaining to our discussion. See what I mean about engineers?

[neufox47]

Now back to everyone agreeing that Colleges do not do a good job preparing people for interviews.

And many companies have a terrible interview processes / look for the wrong things. I fought tooth and nail to get a woman hired, everyone said she was a bad interview, didn't have a personality, etc. She ended up being one of the beat hires that company ever had. She was top in her class, an college athlete, and had a social life, but was nervous in her interview. Idiots couldn't see through that.

Part of why Northeastern gives its students an advantage - classes on interviewing and three co-ops (long internships) before graduating. Many students had interviewed more by the time they graduated than some people do in careers. On campus interviews meant you could have 4-5 first interviews and 2-3 seconds each time. NU grads would routinely smoke grads from other and better colleges in interviews. That didn't make them a better prospect, but they looked like it.


Also, making 30 k in a few months while you're in college is awesome.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using TGR Forums

[shroom]

It's inflation. Candidates and corps all think they are 10s and deserve to act and be treated like 10s. Most of them aren't. They don't need a 10 candidate, the 10 wouldn't take the job or wouldn't last long. They need an 8. But they know in their heart they are a 10 so they only look at 10s and are picky

same reason there are so many single women who bitch about being single.

fuck, i've been trying to explain that to my managers for the last year. it's unfathomable to some. we spend so much effort trying to get the best and brightest to do mundane tasks for only mediocre pay in heavy bureaucracy w/ no room to let those brilliant mind's run. it'll never happen.

[grubbers]

Part of why Northeastern gives its students an advantage - classes on interviewing and three co-ops (long internships) before graduating.

Looking back at it, I kind of wish I had gone to NEU for the co-op program. I would've had a much better idea of what I wanted to focus on in school and I definitely would have put more effort in. Once I started working at an environmental consulting firm I realized just how important seemingly useless (at the time) classes actually were. There was a startling lack of context in my program at school.

[bfree]

Some industries just don't pay because it's tradition and they know that they can get away with it - there will still be quality people willing to take the job. At the end of the day, I guess all that matters is that market price was happily accepted by both sides. The student is still getting valuable work experience that will land them a job if they're not an idiot. I'm just glad engineering doesn't work that way - we all just laugh when we see an engineering intern job posting without pay. I made 22/hr in my first intern job last year, and know plenty of CSE and space type friends that made more than that.

In some ways it's sad, but it also makes you feel better to know that most people reading this thread seem to be better job candidates than most of the sea. Out of those 100 people applying for the job, 75 are morons, 15 will botch the interview in some way, leaving you with only a small field of quality competition.

[Hugh Conway]

the difference is plenty of those industrys have payscales that eventually top out higher than engineering.

[P_McPoser]

I'm happy being an idiot engineer. Especially when I look at my bank account every pay day as an expat.

[systemoverblow'd]

I'm happy being an idiot engineer. Especially when I look at my bank account every pay day as an expat.

I said they're idiots, not that they don't get paid well

[smartyiak]

Stupid kids...can't even do a good job interview!

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--ge...183846651.html


"Two sources indicated that when Smith went on some visits to teams, rather than interact with coaches and front-office people, he would spend much of his time on his cell phone. Instead of being engaged with team officials, he would be texting friends or reading Twitter or a number of other distracting activities."

"All these other players who were in there were talking to the coaches, trying to get to know people and he was over there by himself," one of the sources said. "That's not what you want out of your quarterback."

[pappag]

Stupid kids...can't even do a good job interview!

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--ge...183846651.html


"Two sources indicated that when Smith went on some visits to teams, rather than interact with coaches and front-office people, he would spend much of his time on his cell phone. Instead of being engaged with team officials, he would be texting friends or reading Twitter or a number of other distracting activities."

"All these other players who were in there were talking to the coaches, trying to get to know people and he was over there by himself," one of the sources said. "That's not what you want out of your quarterback."

That dude will be a bigger bust than the bastard child of Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell.

[systemoverblow'd]

Youth is wasted on the young.

[farmer]

the difference is plenty of those industrys have payscales that eventually top out higher than engineering.

Really? Many of the worlds leading companies have engineers running them. I'm not sure how you get a higher pay that the President & CEO. 6 figures is nice, but 7 or 8 sounds a whole lot better. I'm willing to bet that if you average the ROI for everyone who has earned an engineering degree vs one of these degrees for a "creative industry", we are kicking the shit out of you.