Natural Gas Pipeline Threatening Vermonters

[BigDaddy]

Fact. From the VT Gas website.

Vermont Gas is required to meet or exceed all applicable safety codes throughout its operations. While these stringent safety codes allow for the installation of a transmission line within a few feet of residences, Vermont Gas seeks, when possible, to use a 25-foot minimum setback.

Several of the routes currently on the table place this pipeline within a few feet of homes.

Fact:

http://www.fox44abc22yourvoice.com/s...omes-evacuated

My favorite quote: "Although this incident will be investigated, Vermont gas says accidents like this one happen about 15 times a year. "

Reassuring, no?!

I really don't get all the worry... Most explosions occur at night, so with the gasline 5' from your house, you wouldn't even know it.






Petition signed!

[Shredhead]

Shoot we have doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs and what you fighting like crazy. In our little town the select board and planning commission are unanimously opposed. In fact, there is widespread opposition across the state. Sadly, the process so wildly favors the utility companies, landowners and town governments have very little input. The wife and I have spent nearly six months researching this and getting up to speed - it will be an uphill battle but I think we actually have a chance to beat these bastards if the story goers national. Getting Middlebury College to change their tune on the project would be a great step as well.

Dude, I sympathize. We had Canadian National come in a buy an old abandoned freight line near my house for $75 million. Now all the municipalities that fought it have had to shell out hundreds of millions to upgrade all the crossings. The ones that didn't fight, magically had CN and the Fed cover those cost.
Barack and Daley were for it, because it got the trains out of Chicago.

[MontuckyFried]

If there's farmland it could go through, put it there.

I agree with this entirely, as farmland is clearly the logical route. However from what I've read, the farmers have been fighting against the pipeline as well (in a combined effort with the towns), as they don't want any disturbance to THEIR properties. Thus, perhaps your fight should be with the farmers instead. They're saying "not on my farmland!" The communities are saying "not in our backyards!" Whether you like it or not, it is likely to go in one place or the other. You decide which route you'd prefer. Battling against the pipeline going in all together might be a lost cause due to eminent domain if they pull that, but getting it re-routed through farmland is a battle your town would likely win. Your community needs to refocus its energy towards a more winnable position. Fight the farmers, and stop working against the gas company, and you might find yourself in a preferable situation, being getting the pipeline away from your house all-together. You'd be surprised how much further you can get by working WITH the gas companies instead of fighting them tooth and nail no matter what options they bring to the table.

[grrrr]

That's just wrong. If any of those landowners don't want the gas line on their properties, or within 50 feet of their properties, the project should end. Eminent domain should be for the public good, not private profit; and only then when there is an overwhelming public good.

[grubbers]

and only then when there is an overwhelming public good.

Well this project is bringing a great deal of money into the state. It might be a Canadian company overseeing it, but it's local companies that are doing most of the work.

[Bottleman]

My apologies. This link has worked for me and others. Let's try one more time.

https://www.change.org/petitions/mid...share_petition

For the record, the gas company could easily have nipped this in the bud. They have been asked repeatedly if they would voluntarily submit to minimum setbacks. They have repeatedly said no. That left many folks with no alternative but to fight the pipeline altogether.

[Danno]

yes, that link works for me, thanks.

[Danno]

Well this project is bringing a great deal of money into the state. It might be a Canadian company overseeing it, but it's local companies that are doing most of the work.

"bringing money into the state" and "good for businesses in the state" is still a fairly attenuated public benefit. They're not taking the land for a park, a highway, etc., i.e. the traditional public benefits of eminent domain.

[Bottleman]

Offers are based upon a simple $10,000 per acre formula. No allowance is given for loss of property value (since this pipeline would obviously not reduce property values) or loss of landscaping. Location of the pipe has no bearing.

An acre is comprised of 43,560 square feet. If the easement taken or granted is 100' long by 50' wide that's 5000 square feet. Payout would be $1147.

you gave an example of a 1 acre lot, them offering $1,000 for an easement. What's the value of the property? & how big is the easement? ie right through the middle, or cutting across a corner? Are they offering less than a prorated portion of the assessed value?

[jamesp]

Let's make something else clear. The gas company can come back any time, without permission and dig up your land to do maintenance, increase the size of the pipe or even change the pipe so that it can carry a different type of fuel.

Fun times!

those dirty frenchies will be pumping poutine down that thing before you know it.


But seriously, would you prefer it if the pipeline wasn't maintained at all? Or only maintained when you think it should be?

If they really want a pipeline through the area no amount of whining will stop it. Sounds like there are lots of factors for it. All i get from your rants is that its "dirty gas" & its going explode. Sensational shit like that gets ignored pretty quick...

[neufox47]

http://www.vtfishandwildlife.com/lib...of_Vermont.pdf

A few five lined skinks or spotted turtles found in the right of way should stop things cold. If it were me, I'd also toss in a boreal chorus frog or two to seal the deal.

Kinda crazy that the human costs aren't enough/ overshadowed by skunk habitat.

I'm not a fracking hater, but $1 g is their offer to put that pipeline by their house? The gas industry has been super shady in dealing with small towns since this boom. Not to mention that bullshit with the clean drinking water act Cheney got through. Austin and Farmer, when you are employed by an industry that does that type of shit, you are going to be accused of it at every turn. This is coming for a guy who works for insurance companies. Yes I've heard credible stories of insurance companies being shady and unfair, but I call them out as such.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using TGR Forums

[grrrr]

If they really want a pipeline through the area no amount of whining will stop it. Sounds like there are lots of factors for it. All i get from your rants is that its "dirty gas" & its going explode. Sensational shit like that gets ignored pretty quick...

How about "it's my property, not the gas companies?" Taking something of value, so someone else can profit? Sounds pretty fascist to me.

[Bottleman]

Sensationalist?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Sa...line_explosion

those dirty frenchies will be pumping poutine down that thing before you know it.


But seriously, would you prefer it if the pipeline wasn't maintained at all? Or only maintained when you think it should be?

If they really want a pipeline through the area no amount of whining will stop it. Sounds like there are lots of factors for it. All i get from your rants is that its "dirty gas" & its going explode. Sensational shit like that gets ignored pretty quick...

[Bottleman]

More sensationalist bullshit. Must be the liberal media making shit up.

http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201212110065

[jamesp]

call it whatever you want. Utility companies usually have legal means to get easements to get their shit built.
You can cry about fascists & dirty gas but that won't stop the pipeline being built. Constantly quoting 1 example of a 54 (?) year old pipe explosion won't be enough to stop it either.
The realistic way to get it away from your place is to get it built somewhere else. Sounds like the farmers are doing a better job of lobbying than you are.

FWIW if it were being built near my house I'd maybe try get it moved. But at the same time I kinda wish my town had natural gas because its a better option than the current available heating fuels. I know you said its a transmission line not a distribution line, but the transmission line has to come first.

[Ted Striker]

I don't know what you're so upset about, pipelines are perfectly safe.

I'm sure grrrr remembers that one well. One of the burned houses wasn't bulldozed (for whatever reason), and stood as a chilling reminder. Petition signed.

[Bottleman]

Distribution is not economically feasible. Again, Vermont is settled very differently than other states. This town does not have the population density to make distribution possible.

[pepperdawg]

Link works - signed.

[Moeghoul]

Distribution is not economically feasible. Again, Vermont is settled very differently than other states. This town does not have the population density to make distribution possible.

Yeah, I know little about the feasibility. We have NG here in the city (Philly) so its something I rarely think about. Since VT is hardcore about alternatives, its a shame that the communities affected can't try and squeeze a solar/wind farm out of this deal. Even individual units for the property owners directly affected, which might be a nice offset for property value diminution.

[Bottleman]

Many, many thanks to those of you who have signed.

[guroo270]

[ArmadaBC]

Very sympathetic but I got to tell you your odds are very poor. Your best bet is to pick the handful of areas with particular sensitivity and try to get it rerouted around those.

I'm not trying to be a dick but stuff like not having the proper stand back distance is not a winning argument. Your up against lots of money here, a business that is blowing up in terms of growth in a down economic environment and oh yeah its a cheap, cleaner form of energy which is only the most important resource on earth.

Lastly there is alot of pretend environmental bs related to fracking because its new. Fracking is no angel but its better than the alternatives by a long shot, additionally the boom has brought up to speed alot of capture methods which is super fucking critical. The normal method, flaring is a big fucking no no for GW and that shit is a billion times more dangerous than living near a NG pipeline. If you want to work with these people and if your smart you do than learn some real shit about how it works, if they finger you as enviro jobs they'll go over your head and then your doubly fucked.

[Bottleman]

Very sympathetic but I got to tell you your odds are very poor. Your best bet is to pick the handful of areas with particular sensitivity and try to get it rerouted around those.

We are doing this as well. Wearing lots of different hats these days.

[grubbers]

its a shame that the communities affected can't try and squeeze a solar/wind farm out of this deal.

Wind farms in Vermont are another can of worms. Just look up some of the news stories about the Kingdom Community Wind project that was completed last year.

[BigDaddy]

Natural gas is clean, organic, natural and totally safe...


Except for incidents like last night in Alabama:



Fortunately, no one killed, but three people injured.