AT Boot Selection question

[sethschmautz]

Hey guys,

I'm gearing up (literally) for a new AT boot purchase this summer or perhaps in the fall. My 4 year old Factors are great boots, but I'm ready for something lighter. I've been reading a ton about the latest AT boots, and spent some time today trying some boots on to get a good feel for which boot I am going to go with.

My current Factors are 28.5 (328 bsl) and I'm skiing them with a pair of Intuition power wraps that fit really well. The shell fit is really good, and the lower volume toe box fits my foot really well. I skied a pair of 28.5 Quadrants a few weeks ago and were not impressed. Too big in the footbox and just didn't like the way they skied.

Today I skied a pair of stock (not modified) 29 TLT5Ps inbounds and for some lift served slackcountry. I was VERY impressed by how stiff they were for the weight. They drove my Wailer 112RPs better than I would have expected in both soft snow and fairly hard snow. The problem is that the toe box is also too big on these boots. I was wearing a pair of really thin socks, so a slightly thicker sock may help. Going to try that this week.

I tried on a couple pair of Mercuries on the way home. In the shop, they flexed as stiff as my Factors w/o tongues and w/o a booster strap. But even in the 28, they were a bit big in the toe box (same socks). When I went down to a 27, the volume was good, but the shell fit was tight - about 1 finger. With the liners in, my toes were touching the front until I flexed the boot - the way I expect an alpine boot to fit.

I'm leaning toward the Mercuries at this point, but am looking for some thoughts from the collective. I can pick up the TLTs (317 bsl) for about $350, and they fit my current dynafit mount on my Wailers. The Mercuries are going to be around $600, and I *think* the 28s (314 bsl) will fit my current dynafit mount, but the 27s will not - they will require a remount. There is a chance that I can use the original holes in the skis for the dynafit remount, but I'm not sure until I pull these bindings off.

If this was your decision, would you buy the cheaper TLTs and wear thick socks? Would you buy the 27 Mercuries, get the boots punched a little and remount your skis? Or would you buy the 28 Mercuries and be thankful for the extra room in the toe box while skinning?

I'm leaning toward dyanfit boots for the stiffness to weight ratio, but I'm not married to this path.

Thanks in advance,

Seth

[XXX-er]

Some thots: I'm a huge mercury fanboy, what do you want to do with the boot, I often ski my mercury's at the hill and they are enough boot Is the TLT enough boot, you realize TLT only works with dynafits?

I went with a tight 1 finger fit and the clapped out liner from my old AT boots ... if you buy the mercury forget the stock liner

I don't think the TLT would fit my wide forefoot so haven't tried them on but don't they fit quite different ... do they fit the same foot?

Boots are the most important piece of the puzzle, if you got boots that work the next boot choice should speak to you, think about what you pay for a boot amortised down to how many times you ski it and forget about the money

[GeezerSteve]

Both are great touring boots

[Andyski]

Making a big boot smaller is harder than making a smaller boot bigger. If I was going to have just one AT boot, I'd go with the Mercury over the 5. The TLT6 would make that decision tougher.

[LightRanger]

On the remount issue, for a tiny bit of extra weight, some Binding Freedom plates would solve any problems.

[sethschmautz]

Lightranger, explain the binding freedom plates. I have a pair of Dynalooks on there. I was under the impression that they only have one set of holes for looks and one set for dynafits. Am I mistaken?

[StopMakingSense]

1.) Stock liner on the Mercury blows, if you think you need something punched with the stock liner pickup an intuition, all problems will be solved

2.) For me it would be a choice between what I prefer more... if I'm into mountaineering, getting off my skis and using my boots, serious 7k+ days, multiple lines... scrambles, hop turns then the TLT5 is no question the boot. If you're into a 3k booter, some slackcountry, why don't you go Mercury?

In the end though you're trying to use a thicker sock to compensate for an incorrect boot? Seriously? Buy what fits man, don't try and compensate with a thicker liner that just results in slop and a bad fit, it's a recipe for disaster

[sethschmautz]

Thanks for all of the great feedback. Realistically the vast majority of my use is going to be sidecounty and days between 2-5k of vert. Mostly powder skiing, very little technical climbing at all. I DO have a pair of K2 Sahales that are great spring/mountaineering skis that are currently mounted w/ inserts for dynafit at 328 bsl. The Mercury route would make these impossible to ski, I think. That's definitely a bummer. Maybe I could throw 3 more inserts in to move the toe piece back. . . I'll have to take a look.

At this point, I'm thinking that the Mercury is probably the best boot for what I want to do, and probably in a 27. Again, thanks for the feedback. If anybody has any other thoughts, please feel free to post. I'll keep an eye on the thread.

[LightRanger]

Seth, what I meant was that if you end up having to remount for the Mercuries and are worried the holes are going to be too close, the BF plates would solve that issue because of the wider mount pattern.

But I made that comment on the assumption that the bindings were mounted straight to the ski. Since you already have plates on there, then you'd have to remount the plate and the holes would still be close. Still, if you have holes that're close/overlapping, it's better to be mounted to the plate.

[nexus6]

I went through a similar conundrum lately between the TLT5 and the Vulcan (and a pair of Lange RS's, but that's another story).

Question, how does the rest of the TLT5 fit? The actual toe box (the part that your toes stick out into not the part back by the ball of your foot) makes no difference in how the boot skis as long as it's big enough (very important in an AT boot). How is the heel hold, ankle and instep?

Another thing about the TLT5 is that the stock liner is very thin. If you put a pair of Intuition Pro Tours in there you will be both warmer and take up a lot of room.

[reynolds.trailrun]

If you are looking an alternative also look at the Scarpa Maestrale RS. Comparable to the Mercury in your aim with a much better stock liner. I like the Maestrales because they fit. I have medium width forefoot with a medium width heel and the boot fits like a glove. Though when I was trying them on the fit seemed pretty similar.

[sethschmautz]

Went for a 2k skin tonight in the TLT5s and a medium weight sock. Other than destroying any previous uphill records that I once held, I was amazed at how big my stride was and how fresh I felt at the top. I guess that's what you get for carrying 2 pounds less per foot up the mountain. It makes the idea of even carrying 1 pound more per foot (Vulcans or Mercuries) sound much less enticing.

On the way down I skied icy groomers that had refrozen from the warm day. I was again amazed at well this boot skied, even on really hard snow. Stiffness felt fine today, as it did toward the end of my skiing this weekend. I'm thinking that the boot might just take a little getting used to and that I could probably learn to ski it pretty aggressively in most conditions. But adding a booster strap and a Vulcan tongue, it might be close to Factor stiffness, although I don't think it will flex quite as nicely.

The thing I wasn't a huge fan of tonight was that I felt like I had to really crank down on my buckles to get the boot to feel stiff enough. It lends credence to StopMakingSense above questioning why I would choose a boot that was too big?

To answer Nexus, the boot felt *really* roomy from about mid foot forward. My heel felt super tight, and as long as I had the upper cuff tight, I didn't feel my foot moving around in the boot at all. That's the conundrum for me I guess. I don't actually feel my foot sliding around, but it just feels big in there and I feel like I have to overtighten the buckles to get it to fit okay.

This is good data for me, and I appreciate the feedback. If anybody has experienced what I'm describing and has any more solid advice/experience, I'll take it. Seems hard to choose to carry around an extra pound per foot, and the price is good, but I'm not sure if I'll wish that I would have purchased a smaller boot at the end of the day. . .

Seth

[nexus6]

Seth, I ended up going with the slightly too big TLT5P for the reasons you mentioned. I think I'm getting another 1K ft. out my days now with the magic shoes. I imagine I'd be just that much more tired with the extra weight of the Vulcan.

As for the fit, it does have a lot of room around the little toe/sixth toe area. It's a little disconcerting but I don't think it affects the way they ski. I put in a Pro Tour liner with the stiff tongue option. This took up some forefoot room and stiffened things up a bit. I also added the Booster strap, Vulcan tongue, moved the lower buckle up a touch and locked out the toe flex. I'm not totally sure I like the Vulcan tongue yet. I feel like it took some of the progressiveness out of the flex, but I've only been out on the new tongues one day. I'm going to bring both tongues next time I'm out to do a comparison. I'm super happy with the boot now, locking out the toe flex made the biggest difference. The boot feels much more solid and the god awful mushy feeling under the ball of your foot while skiing is gone. I'm not at all surprised that Dynafit dropped that "feature" on the TLT6 for next year.

[sethschmautz]

Nexus, I have read about all of those mods and was planning on doing them also if I go this route.

Would you mind telling me a little more about the pro tour liners? What thickness did you go with? How does the upper cuff of the pro tour compare with the stock liner? Tonight I had the upper cuff on the absolute loosest setting (including moving the buckle) and it still felt a little too tight. My powerwrap is even thicker in that area. How does the pro tour compare?

Thanks for your feedback, this is *really* helpful.

Seth

[nexus6]

Nexus, I have read about all of those mods and was planning on doing them also if I go this route.

Would you mind telling me a little more about the pro tour liners? What thickness did you go with? How does the upper cuff of the pro tour compare with the stock liner? Tonight I had the upper cuff on the absolute loosest setting (including moving the buckle) and it still felt a little too tight. My powerwrap is even thicker in that area. How does the pro tour compare?

Thanks for your feedback, this is *really* helpful.

Seth

I went with the regular medium volume (I think that's the only choice for the Protour). It has similar flex zones as the stock liner but is overall quite a bit stiffer. I haven't noticed any reduction in range of motion over the stock liner. They are WAY warmer though. On warm days it turned into a swamp in there, but I don't get cold on cold days like I did in the stock liner.

The upper cuff was really tight at first, but I did an extra hot-rice-bag mold of just the cuff area a few times and it's good now. Still had to move the buckle to the outer setting. I would guess the Powerwrap's reinforced cuff and high density foam won't compress as much as the Protour. I have skinny lower legs and ankles though so the tight cuff works pretty well for me anyway.

The downside of the Protour is the velcro tongue attachment. On one boot I can feel the bump of velcro while skinning. I'm going to try and heat up that area squish it down with a clamp to see if that helps. If that doesn't work I'll remove the velcro and try and get someone to sew in the tongue.

[sethschmautz]

Nexus,

You're right. I was thinking of the Luxuries, I think. Still on the fence on this one. Strangely, I've only skied in them twice and they are on load from my buddy, but as I'm planning skinning days, I am really resistant to taking my Factors. Yet when I think about owning only the TLT5s, I get concerned. I have only thought of one use case where I wouldn't want to ski my skis with the TLTs. Having owned soft boots in the past (Lazers and Megarides), it concerns me.

That said, I've been reading about Big Steve skiing TLTMs at 245lbs and I think that maybe the limitation here is my skiing and not the boots. Maybe it would be good for my skiing to buy the TLTs.

Main question that keeps coming back to me right now is whether I would ski this setup inbounds with the TLT5s. I've been really enjoying skiing the Wailers more than my Katanas, and it isn't hard for me to think about skiing the Wailers inbounds on a regular softer day - not just a slackcountry day. Would I be happy in the TLTs for this? I know that I would likely be happier in a Vulcan or a Mercury but at an obvious tradeoff.

I think I've waxed on this subject long enough. I have plenty of time to think about the decision prior to when I'll actually be able to buy the boots. If you have any other observations as you ski the Vulcan tongue vs the TLT tongue or think of anything else, let me know.

Thanks!

Seth