333 IS BACK!!! "Community Skis"

[hutash]

The guy is not so dumb, he set up shop right next to Mammoth Brewing Company. I've have staggered by his shop more then a few times after a few rounds of tasting. I have yet to drink so much that I would actually buy anything though.

[Spyderjon]

There's a good bit of investment gone in to setting up that shop.

[PB]

Well ...... it wouldn't be the first time an investor was mislead.

[~mikey b]

we visited a couple weeks ago - they were very nice to us - showed the adults around, indulged the kids - seemed like a legit operation - I didn't make the connection at first, but the haircut gives it away - he actually seemed interested in making a pair of tiny little big phat skis for young Owen

[Rodneyyee]

Well a divorce and massive amounts of weed have rendered this whacko spewing hate in his dumb red truck at chair 2 on any given morning. We walked his Ex's freak show down the 395 the other day. Lets just say there is more at work here than a simple personality disorder. There might be some certifiable nut hut at work here.

[LightRanger]

Bump...

http://thesheetnews.com/2015/08/14/embattled-community/

Lish was/is a walking disaster, but the crux of this story appears to be that the Town of Mammoth Lakes is still terribly managed.

Community Skis contests TBID assessment.


Community Skis might pull up stakes after receiving a letter from the Town informing the ski manufacturer that it must pay a Tier 1 Retail Tourism Business Improvement District (TBID) assessment. Co-owners Michael Lish and Kristin Broumas argued that their business, a non-tourism based manufacturer, should be exempt from TBID. They believe Mammoth Lakes Tourism’s (MLT) insistence that they pay TBID has become a personal vendetta.

Lish and Broumas have struggled to appeal the TBID assessment with both MLT’s Executive Director John Urdi, who determines businesses’ TBID classifications, and the Town Finance Department, which determines business classifications.


The difference between the two is the first of several confusing factors in Community Skis’ case.


As Town Manager Dan Holler explained it, the Town determines business classifications, which solely affect taxes and fees associated with the Town’s Business License Ordinance. Initially, the Town classified Community Skis as a retailer; Lish and Broumas fought hard to change that designation to manufacturer.


They have now convinced not one but three different Finance Department employees—Maureen McClain, who left the Town about a year and a half ago, Dan Izzo, who left last March, and most recently Eric Bertovich—that Community Skis is a manufacturer and not retail.


Lish said the Town initially classified Community Skis as retail because “we submitted our initial business license as a manufacturer/retailer. At the time our thought was we would be selling bindings, soft goods and other items. That never materialized. As of day one we have only sold what we manufacture.”


When Lish took the matter to McClain and Izzo, the Town classified Community Skis as a manufacturer “and exempted us from all taxes and fines associated with TBID we had incurred to date.”


But Lish claimed that “Shortly thereafter John Urdi went to the Town Finance office and, apparently in a great deal of anger, admonished Town Finance and forced them to put us back into the TBID collection process. This is when we were informed by Town Finance that business classification has nothing to do with who pays TBID; John Urdi determines that.”


Lish said Urdi has repeatedly denied Community Skis a manufacturer classification.


“When TBID was enacted as a law, we had been discussing with Clayton Mendel [owner of Eastern Sierra Armory, which specializes in biathlon-related goods and services] how he had approached the town proactively as a manufacturer and was exempted from the TBID,” Lish said. “When the TBID was enacted we followed Clayton’s advice, and John Urdi throughout the appeal process consistently denied us the path that Clayton had taken.”


MLT Board of Directors Chairman John Morris spoke on behalf of Urdi, who is on vacation, regarding Community Skis’ TBID classification. “Community Skis is similar to Mammoth Brewing Company and, say, Mimi’s Cookies,” he said. “They do manufacture and sell wholesale to outside distributors but they also sell directly to the consumer, which is a retail transaction. The retail transactions are subject to the TBID.”


What’s more, and perhaps more important, according to Dan Holler, Urdi continues to classify Community Skis as a tourism-based business in spite of Lish and Broumas’ protests to the contrary. According to John Morris, a business is tourism-based if it derives more than 50 percent of its revenue from customers outside of Mammoth Lakes.


But Lish argued that Community Skis sees little to no tourist walk-in business. He said the majority of business is drummed up through his and Broumas’ own marketing campaign and conducted online. Because of this, he maintained that Community Skis should not have to contribute to an MLT marketing campaign that does the shop no good.


Lish also said that while he had attempted to determine Urdi’s rationale for classifying Community Skis as a tourism-based business, he never received a straight answer.


“To determine whether we are tourism based or not would have to take due diligence on the part of MLT, following a specified protocol in-line with the law as written,” Lish said. “Our company, or any other company, seems in fact to be randomly selected to fit into MLT’s classification as tourist-based. But if we receive tourists, then the gas stations receive tourists, the real estate broker receives tourists, and so on and so forth. Without tourism, any of these businesses, including the newspaper, would not exist … John Urdi has created an environment where his personal prejudices dictate who will be forced to pay and who will not.”


Lish argued that Urdi must have initially taken business information and classifications from the Town, or “how did John Urdi know what businesses existed and what they might be doing? Did he use the Town Finance designations or did he talk to the fairy godmother?”


In other words, why use the Town’s data and determinations only to draw a different conclusion about the business in question?


Community Skis’ experience also begs the question why MLT, which stands to gain the most from classifying a business as retail and tourism-related, could do so with so little oversight or understanding on the part of the Town or the businesses in question.


Although Dan Holler pointed out that Community Skis can resort to a TBID appeal process, Lish said this hadn’t done his business much good.


“We did go through the appeal process, but at no time during the process was it ever made clear what John Urdi and the MLT Board were basing their decision on in regards to who pays TBID,” he said. “We’ve never seen a concise reading of the law, and throughout the process we felt decisions were being made in an arbitrary manner.”


Lish said the entire process, which has been ongoing since the TBID passed into law in 2013, has taken about 70 hours, or an equivalent $3,500 in Lish and Broumas’ time. “It’s left us exhausted and nervous about the future of our business,” he said. Paying the TBID assessment of $1,500, which was due on August 10, would cost Community Skis an employee and is forcing Lish and Broumas to consider moving. If they do not pay the TBID, Community Skis will not be able to renew its business license.


“We will never pay the TBID assessment,” Lish said. “The problem we are facing in regards to TBID and its administration, fines and penalties, is indicative of a town that is not in the process of self correction, but a town bent on continuing dysfunctional practices, bad management, and a weak Town Council. The Town has had ample opportunity to correct the actions of John Urdi and the other people who perpetuate this level of mediocrity … the level of harassment and then the denial of our business license based on what we consider the prejudices of one man, the Tourism Executive Director, is much too poisonous to our persons and vision.”


Morris said he believed Community Skis had voted on TBID, and that “to the best of my knowledge all of the business that were going to be assessed the TBID were able to cast votes.” But Lish said that Community Skis didn’t vote. While proponents of TBID continue to insist the TBID is a fee and not a tax, what this amounts to in Lish’s eyes is taxation without representation, and all for a marketing campaign that he argued still does nothing to benefit his business.


“We wanted to flourish as a business and flourish in this community,” Lish said. “The Town is clearly telling us that John Urdi can do what he wants to do, and if Community Skis has to go, who cares?”

[snapt]

I wonder if his skis still break? I thought he was building super lite carbon fiber black ops skis for the marines? Did he ever reconcile with Splat?

[mcski]

He said he could build them in 3hrs so just go have lunch and chk back.

[Game Over]

Oh good lord

[LightRanger]

Quality.

[mcski]

Pat should partner with him if he really wants to make a quality ski

[splat]

I wonder if his skis still break? I thought he was building super lite carbon fiber black ops skis for the marines? Did he ever reconcile with Splat?

I never had a beef with Lish. I gave the dood some good advice so the skis wouldn't break.
Last year, peeps I know in Mammoth seemed to be accepting him as a fixture in the community.
And Robin is a good buddy and a straight up good businessman.
It's all popcorn fodder to me.

However, the thought of homesteading some LA producer's mansion in Mammoth has a certain appeal.
I'd like to know how this works.

[sb]

Potential for sum good parties?

[Clownshoe]

Subscribed after I read the word "homesteading".

TGR delivers teh summer goldz early this year.

[chewski]

I am going to chime in here. My friends pitched in and got me a build your own ski workshop with community skis as a surprise last year. I have been a long time TGR reader and have been aware of the stigma of exploding 333 and 222 skis since the beginning. Well, i was a bit concerned, but being genuinely grateful for my friends' thoughtfulness, i built my custom skis with michael and kristen right before new years.

First things first, what genuinely warm and thoughtful people mike and kristen are. They were glad to have me, my gf, and a host of my friends who all chipped in for the workshop descend on their trailer and make it home for a day. They love building skus, and they do it as a passion; not as a means to an end. Michael is very forethcoming about the growing process community skis has had, and hard earned lessons from both bussiness and construction standpoints along the way.

The next thing i will say is that the idea of building a quality custom ski for $333 (or let alone $222) is absurd. And mike and kristen know that now too. As a reflection of that, their skis are priced far more expensively, but appropriately now. After having a hand in making my skis myself, i can say that i am far more impressed than the initial 333 threads lead me to expect.

After skiing them, i can say that the bases are without a doubt among the most durable i have owned (i have been on 20-30 skis over the last decade). They now use 4001 ptex, and rock hits have been shed without a single significant gouge. If the ski trailer concept has a shortcoming, it would be that the bases are belt sander finished and it shows. They have many ptex hairs that took some significant work with a metal scraper and sanding to get smooth. The bases were very slow the first few days, but after 2-3 waxes and some work they are absolutely fine in the glide department. There are also obvious concavities in a few places about an inch or so across, but I will invest in a grind and true structure on a montana at the end of the season. Due to the very conservative belt sander finish, there is nearly full material to work with.

Yes, they are still cap construction, but i have had no durability issues with this. Their answer to edge grip from a cap ski is their horizontal (as opposed to the typical vertical laminate) core stock they use, which resists torsional stress better. I have found this to be true, with the design trade off that the rebound is less than comparable vertical laminate. They compensate by having more extreme camber profiles if you want more pop. And having sent some decent 10-15' airs to hardpack, these do not explode like ply wood anymore.

All in all, it was a cool experience with good folk. I won't claim these to be the end all be all, but if the ski design sucks, it's your fault. The durability of the construction has been at least slightly above average for me.

[cstefanic]

Yeah, no.

[nickwm21]

Their answer to edge grip from a cap ski is their horizontal (as opposed to the typical vertical laminate) core stock they use, which resists torsional stress better.

This is the a huge material science mistake.

Exhibit A:

[chewski]

This is the a huge material science mistake.

Exhibit A:

Trust me. I read all the threads before building my ski. I then proceeded to ski them gingerly, expecting the worst. As i built confidence in their non-exploding nature over a few days, i began to ski them as hard as any other skis. Yes, it is a data point of one, and no, i cannot prove their core stock is better than before by the absence of catastrophic failure on one pair of skis... but for what it's worth, i ski them without thought now, and they were one of two skis i chose for my week long trip to jackson hole (the only time i flew with skis this year). And i have too many skis. Zero issues thus far (after base prep), which is all i am reporting

[Climber Joe]

Line makes some bomber park skis with horizontal cores. I would bet a big wad of money the core is the most solid part of his build.

[jarlybart]

Bumpity Bump for the fact that I am stoked to be working with Michael on a killer project this season. Community Skis is alive and well...stay tuned.

[XXX-er]

fuck its like herpies

[~mikey b]

and with this turkey working with him

[toast2266]

It's like regular ski pricing, but built in a partially equipped garage with scrap wood quality.

[TransplantedFromRMNP]

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[Skidog]

Hey hey now, let's see if any improvements have been made. If anything it may provide some entertainment.

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