The Epoxy Thread

[Chainsaw_Willie]

Searching for "epoxy" in this forum to try to determine the best epoxy to get results in reading a lot of good threads about ski repair & inserts, but comes up short on specific recommendations. People like to throw the terms "slow set" or "24 hour" around but what I thought would be handy is a thread that lists *specific* brands and/or part numbers for specific epoxies to make it easier to figure out what and where to buy. People also throw around names that don't really seem to fit when doing a Google search, so post up your favorite epoxies here and be specific about the brand and type.

Also, this would be a good place to discuss the relative merits of one type over another. In general, it would seem that for skis you want something that retains some flexibility, is waterproof, and won't melt or weaken any of the materials typically found in skis.

One recommendation I came across frequently here is West Systems G-Flex:

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/g-flex-epoxy/

Maybe this is the ultimate epoxy and this thread need go no further? I dunno, post up what you got if you think it's valuable for other people to know.

Oh, and I'd seen mention of Devcon in the past but the only epoxy I can find they make that seems suitable is this stuff:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DEV...PH6?Pid=search

That looks like a seriously bomber epoxy but only comes packaged for industrial applications - you need to buy a separate dispensing gun and tips which really drives the price up. As a side note, I think that's the stuff I used on a job where we installed threaded rods into holes drilled in a concrete bridge deck to be used as supports for some 4" rigid metal pipe.

[Hugh Conway]

Devcon 5-minute:
http://www.shop.vacuumworldct.com/De...FaN_QgodalYAXQ

[Chainsaw_Willie]

I thought the conventional wisdom was to avoid quick set epoxies like that Devcon 5 minute stuff...??? Interesting that it mentions skis in the description but also says best for rigid items, as if skis don't flex.

canwilf - that Freesole stuff looks interesting. Even specifically mentions ski delaminations in the product description.

http://www.mcnett.com/Freesole-Ureth...pair-P186.aspx

[XXX-er]

Some times it boils down to what you can find especialy in a small town, anything in a blister pack on the wall for <10$ at your building supply is NOT the good stuff, I had to get the good stuff when I was in the big city, you are looking at 30-40can$ for 12oz and it is gona have a 24hr cure time

I think what is available might depend on where you live?

http://www.ippnet.com/fibreglass/epo...-products.html

This^^ is the good stuff you will most likely find in BC, I was using G-1 which they don't have anymore so the store dude steered me towards G2, it looks like G-R is the toughest

If you break down out there I doubt you will be drilling/gluing at -10C you will limp out using straps/wire/ Dtape so if you got time to do a repair you got time to use slow set, my kid the tradesman uses the 5min to attach some "thing" usually sensors and stuff in rewinding big electric motors because he can't wait 24hrs but the finished rebuild will be coated with good stuff at some point



aqua seal/freesole/shoo goo/seam grip is all liquid urethane is you read the label and IME there isn't much difference in use or makeup for any brand its for soft good repair CW I used a lot of it as the drysuit repair guy who worked for cases of beer, good for fixing rips in 3 layer gortex, glue velcro back on ski gear, hem jeans, a thin coating on critical wear spots of your gloves can double the life of a glove

http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/VLP

this^^ is really good stuff for fixing small rips in abicycle seat that is otherwise still in good shape I don't think anyone uses it but me

[Hugh Conway]

I thought the conventional wisdom was to avoid quick set epoxies like that Devcon 5 minute stuff...???

you mean TGR overkill "wisdom"? honestly for small repairs I haven't noticed much difference between 5-minute, G-Flex, West 105, System 3, blah blah blah. I'd point out for a "good" repair you should have a UV coating (paint) over an epoxy.

edit to add: if you are wanting better quality Titebond 3 is more water proof than Titebond 2 (and often 3 is easier to find than 2)

[DRZ1050i]

For binding holes, Titebond 2 wood glue.

Not an epoxy, but works well, and is MUCH easier to work with.

For epoxies, I've had good luck in other projects with loctite extra time.
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/13/...a-Time-Pro.htm

[Hugh Conway]

It is true that they all smell the same and produce a similar high. However, I disagree with the last one -- The GSA would never settle for blah, blah, blah.

no, "composite resin" provides a much better high if you want to get pissy, make sure the glues relatively fresh <6 months for most, and has been stored well (at the store and your home). Make sure the bond site's clean, not contaminated with oils/what have you, and do it in a warm environment. There's all kinds of good procudures to follow for a high quality fix, but lets be honest, it's unlikely to ever be as good as it was and unless it's something super duper special, it ain't worth that much (because used ski prices are in the toilet) so you want to minimize your expenditure on the fix.

[XXX-er]

I had a glob of unused 5min that I put on the end of a ww paddle blade for noting more than an abrasion guard

It got wet and soggy like a booger and fell off ... not water proof

home made red wine and aqua seal make for a heady mix ... I think its the tolulene

[ferniebiker]

I'm a big fan of t-88, with a tensile strength of 7000 psi :O
http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/T-88_TDS.pdf

[Hugh Conway]

I had a glob of unused 5min that I put on the end of a ww paddle blade for noting more than an abrasion guard

It got wet and soggy like a booger and fell off ... not water proof

yer a fucking idiot

[GeezerSteve]

For binding holes, Titebond 2 wood glue

No thanks. Everytime I've used Titebond II or III I ended up with rusty binding screws. It aint even close to waterproof, at least not here in the PNW.

For binding mounts I now use 3M Marine adhesive per MO's recommendation. Great stuff. Seals out water, very flexible, retains screws. I'll continue to use long-set epoxy for inserts and helicoils, but I'll stick with 3M Marine for binding screws cuz it's the best stuff I've ever used for the application.

[critical-motion]

T-88 looks great, too bad shipping for a 4oz tube is more than $10, but they are on the way to skiing so I may have to stop by sometime.

I recently installed some inserts with Loc-Tite Marine epoxy. 2hr set time, 24hr cure, and 3000psi strength. Waterproof and compatible with all ski materials, plus it can be mixed at relatively low temps. Will install an insert into an old ski and test strength when I get a chance.

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/tds/EPXY_MRN_S_tds.pdf

Here are a few other more difficult to find but professional grade epoxies from Loc-Tite sold by Tognar:

Hysol 11C
http://www.tognar.com/loctite-11c-hysol-epoxy/

Hysol 608
http://www.tognar.com/loctite-608-hysol-epoxy/

[ill-advised strategy]

billy mays mighty putty.

I shit you not. It works really well and it's even better because it's so hilarious.

[Hugh Conway]

No thanks. Everytime I've used Titebond II or III I ended up with rusty binding screws. It aint even close to waterproof, at least not here in the PNW.

If it was 3 (the brown stuff) "user error". NOt sure which 3M "marine adhesive" is mentioned... 5200 is a bitch to remove.

[XXX-er]

yer a fucking idiot

wow Hugh Conway called me an idiot ... I have finally arrived

do people give you money to fix their shit with 5min devcon,
you must be spancered by devcon ?

[El Chupacabra]

anything in a blister pack on the wall for <10$ at your building supply is NOT the good stuff

That's all I've ever used, and it's been fine for me.

I usually buy the "24 hour cure" stuff from Home Depot/ Lowe's, with the "marine" label on it -- comes in a 2-piece syringe applicator. Seems to work fine for binding screws that are a little sloppy (re-used old holes), or if the manufacturer calls for epoxy when mounting.

However, for most ski binding mounts, I just use Titebond wood glue.

[Hugh Conway]

wow Hugh Conway called me an idiot ... I have finally arrived

do people give you money to fix their shit with 5min devcon,
you must be spancered by devcon ?

If your epoxy goobered up with water - the failure was with you, not it. If you want a tutorial on quality fixes for skis - have the fuck at it. Sorry I think for fixing shit myself $40 a can for 12oz, of which most will be wasted, is fucking retarded. I've used "high quality" epoxy left over from boat projects (which was still fresh and good) and it wasn't much different than the "5-minute" stuff. Given you can get West in blister packs for $10 I'm even more baffled by your incoherent ramblings as part of the Canadian 5 cent army of stupid.

[DRZ1050i]

No thanks. Everytime I've used Titebond II or III I ended up with rusty binding screws. It aint even close to waterproof, at least not here in the PNW.

For binding mounts I now use 3M Marine adhesive per MO's recommendation. Great stuff. Seals out water, very flexible, retains screws. I'll continue to use long-set epoxy for inserts and helicoils, but I'll stick with 3M Marine for binding screws cuz it's the best stuff I've ever used for the application.

Titebond shrinks as it cures. Use a little more than you think you need.

II is quite water resistant. I haven't used III, but they advertise it as being waterproof. I remember a test where II outperformed III, and I have never had a problem with II, and it's cheaper, so I continue to buy it.

[Core Shot]

Best flexible epoxy so far is hardman brand "very high peel"

Www.theepoxysource.com

The orange label.
Great for delam skis.
Don't even try to fix a delam with hardware store clear epoxy.
Jb weld is the best you can find if you don't order hardman online.



For filling holes or rethreading, hardman has one that is more like jb weld.

Agree that the five minute or even long cure epoxy you find in hardware or home stores is good only for binding screws.
Way to brittle for a real repair.

Also you cannot find good epoxy at hardware stores or home depot.
Order it online. It's worth it.

[Core Shot]

Cool chart on what to choose.


More info here
http://Www.theepoxysource.com/Epoxy.htm

[Chainsaw_Willie]

I think a lot depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

I'm thinking things like delam repair, insert retention, screw sealing. For things like topsheet chips or filling old screw holes you can use just about anything that will stick and is waterproof.

[WAlove]

west system sells a thickened version of the gflex called 610. you can get it in a calking tube with mixing tips. fills gaps and bonds, will wet out glass too. not sure on ski uses, but its great for making split boards, tnuts, sidewall edge inlay ect. I use it to fill in core shots, cause when you ski big sky...

[Hugh Conway]

I'm thinking things like delam repair, insert retention, screw sealing. For things like topsheet chips or filling old screw holes you can use just about anything that will stick and is waterproof.

I'd suggest "filling old screw holes" to be higher performance than "screw sealing"

[GeezerSteve]

Titebond . . . II is quite water resistant. I haven't used III, but they advertise it as being waterproof.

No, it's not. It's false advertising. Here's a pic of binding screws that had been installed with Titebond II:

Here's the tread with the pic: http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/vi...c.php?p=368603 IME, all bindings screws mounted with Titebond II will rust in less than one season.

The guy who posted that thread, Zeno, had some some good objective testing with adhesives and binding screws. Titebond II is the bigger loser in his test.

Seriously, try the 3M Marine adhesive.

For things like topsheet chips or filling old screw holes you can use just about anything that will stick and is waterproof.

and is flexible.

[Hugh Conway]

No, it's not. It's false advertising.

And yet my lawn furniture disagrees it may not provide the best seal (dunno - I can't say I've ever had real problem) but I don't think the mechanism is "it's not waterproof".