CA chain control

[userA]

It's pretty much a California thing as far as I can tell. Except for semi trucks.

pretty much a Washington thing during winter months when crossing the passes.

[Hugh Conway]

Nevada section?

No, immediately outside of Bishop.

[Viva]

Here's a pic of the shitshow I post of earlier toady. Bluebird day and it was already something like 8:30 or 9:00 and we still had to mount chains or turn back. And when I say mount chains, I'm talking right there- all of those drivers were in the process on installing their chains or already had or were about to. Of course, by 9:30 they probably let everyone through.

[Jonathan S.]

I have been asked, while driving my AWD vehicle, to produce (not put on) chains on 395, in between Bishop and Mammoth Lakes.

I may just be an internet rumor, but I have been stopped on 395 and had to show the CHP that I was carrying chain...bastard. I was driving an Audi AWD with four "real" snow tires.

I have been stopped every time on the 395 if it is snowing anywhere near Bishop however. The cynic in me says this is because most of the CHP guys live in Bishop and like to support the local businesses by making people without chains stay the night. The realist in me has seen the snowdrifts after a big storm at the top of the grade - unreal.15-20 feet on roads that were dry the day before is not uncommon and not something you'll ever see on I-80.

Okay, so now I feel like less of a panicked idiot in hindsight.
Or is that more of an idiot?

In response to the question of who doesn't carry chains in the winter just in case ... how about someone in San Diego for a conference whose Sunday morning flight to Mammoth is cancelled at the last minute (literally) on account of "weather" (even though multiple reliable first-hand reports confirmed no snow on the runway, no winds, and good visibility), then drives to Mammoth, with everything going smoothly until that big sign is flashing that reads ... but hey, no problem, I have an all-wheel drive Subaru with winter tires.
Back at my home airport.
But I'm with my west coast friends who have the same or similar.
No, wait, I'm by myself, in a rental car.

Anyway, I sure hope that gas station appreciates my contribution to the local economy.
Although the next sign was flashing a distance that didn't match up at all with the previous sign (yes, taking account the distance I had just driven), and the next day seems to be same dial-a-random-distance display. (The few miles on the road out to Lake Mary were slick, but nothing that couldn't be coped with easily by slowing down to a few mph below the posted speed limit.)

So, I have the following for sale if anyone is interested -- brand new, never used, hah!
Currently in Mammoth area (specifically, near Tom's Place), and all proceeds will benefit not the panicked New Englander but instead the ESAC avy forecaster (whom I should have called to verify whether I really need to buy chains, but like I said, I panicked).

[XavierD]

Because the $40 chains will cause $1000 dollars in body work on a Subaru? Even ice build up in the wheel wells will cause rubbing turning into a parking lot. It explicitly states in the owners manual to never put them on the car.

If I don't need to carry them, why buy them?

If I go off the road I am calling a tow truck or getting someone to pull me out (with the tow strap I carry).

Meh, $40 in chains does not cause $1000 in body damage if you have them in the trunk and show them to the CHP, unless you actually need them. Last time I checked awd cars have the same number of breaking wheels as 2wd cars. I hear being able to accelerate faster when your going into a turn to fast is great. $1000 in body work, and $40 in tires looks cheap compared to a totaled $20,000 car, couple hundred thousand in medical bills, and a dead friend.

I don't buy that AWD helps you stop any faster, which is what is really important. And AWD does not help SNOW tires, grip on ice.

[leroy jenkins]

Meh, $40 in chains does not cause $1000 in body damage if you have them in the trunk and show them to the CHP, unless you actually need them. Last time I checked awd cars have the same number of breaking wheels as 2wd cars. I hear being able to accelerate faster when your going into a turn to fast is great. $1000 in body work, and $40 in tires looks cheap compared to a totaled $20,000 car, couple hundred thousand in medical bills, and a dead friend.

I don't buy that AWD helps you stop any faster, which is what is really important. And AWD does not help SNOW tires, grip on ice.

I like your sarcasm about accelerating into turns. I bet you brake through turns, and thats why you need chains. I bet you lock up your brakes in icy corners then talk about how the roads are so bad. Speed is your friend and you shouldnt need to stop on a snowy road at all.

[XavierD]

Breaking in turns? That would be stupid, breaking ahead of turns, that would be smart. So you are telling me that when headed down te pass, you can just keep accelerating and everything will be peachy? Problem with WA (and my guess, CA) roads, is that I'm not the only one on them. Personally I think it would be pretty funny to see some hot head accelerate his wrx/Audi/whatever into the back of a semi truck...

[truckeelocal]

That would be stupid, breaking ahead of turns, that would be smart.

Dude .... breaking in snow country is stupid. Breaking is asking the wheels to stop. Wheels stop easily, too easily, on slick roads. GET OFF THE DAMN BREAK PEDAL. I know you're a better than average driver (we all are here) but come on ! If necessary use the gear box (and risk dropping a transmission ... it's cheaper than a car write-off).

[Hugh Conway]

risk dropping a transmission? jesus you are a fucking idiot truckeelocal

[truckeelocal]

risk dropping a transmission? jesus you are a fucking idiot truckeelocal

While I don't disagree with you I was making a point that using engine breaking is safer than wheel breaking in sbow country. And I expand on that point to say that anticipation is far safer than reacting to situations. I was also making a point (probably too subtly) that we are all over confident in our driving skills. We should drive scared, idiot or not.

[Chugachjed]

its funny that I've never seen chains for sale here in Alaska... Never heard of anyone carrying them either.

I bought chains for my 2wd ranger. Then drove it to Valdez in a blizzard with bald tires and never put the fucking things on. Then I was driving up Arctic valley in a different 2wd ranger and put them on and one came off and ripped my brake line off so I got to drive down with no brakes to speak of. In short chains suck, and so does a nanny state that makes you carry them.

[Steven S. Dallas]

Here's a pic of the shitshow I post of earlier today.

That was a shitshow. Most of those people only wanted to drive as far as the snow line, fill the back of their rusted out El Camino with snow, then drive it back to Corona to show the neighbors.

[XavierD]

Dude .... breaking in snow country is stupid. Breaking is asking the wheels to stop. Wheels stop easily, too easily, on slick roads. GET OFF THE DAMN BREAK PEDAL. I know you're a better than average driver (we all are here) but come on ! If necessary use the gear box (and risk dropping a transmission ... it's cheaper than a car write-off).

Slamming on the breaks, yes, riding them, yes, tapping the breaks every once in a while is fine. I agree on using the transmition to keep your speed under control, but you definatly don't want to drop your transmition.

I am all for AWD, however, I don't buy that it is an excuse to drive without chains in the trunk especially if you use SNOW tires. Having 'auto off' lights is not an excuse to forgo jumper cables either.

Too many people get AWD/4WD and think because of that, they are good to go and just blast around in snow. Well Newton don't give a fuck if you have AWD when all four wheels slip right off the road.

I agree, AWD/chains/Snows/confidence are no reasons to not drive cautiously (which means something other than riding the break or going 20mph up te pass. Pretty sure most of the cars I see in the bad accidents on HW2 are AWD or 4WD; why? Because the drivers are dumbfucks who think that their AWD Audi/Subaru/SUV is a 'laws-of-physics-don't-apply-to-me' pass, which it is not.

Difference in driving on ice at <-10 C and [-3, 1] C is quite notable. I would not apply lessons learned from driving midwinter in Alaska, to the WA and CA passes in the winter.

And no, I don't like the government telling people what to do, but I also think whining about having to carry some $40 chains in your $20.000+ car is childish, and indicative of not having the common sense to know when to slow down a bit when the roads are dicey.

[userA]

the deep slush transition between rain & snow is where the real time is gained on I -90 travel. watching the lil rowdies and subes get bucked around before the packed snow is highly entertaining.

[Chugachjed]

Slamming on the breaks, yes, riding them, yes, tapping the breaks every once in a while is fine. I agree on using the transmition to keep your speed under control, but you definatly don't want to drop your transmition.

I am all for AWD, however, I don't buy that it is an excuse to drive without chains in the trunk especially if you use SNOW tires. Having 'auto off' lights is not an excuse to forgo jumper cables either.

Too many people get AWD/4WD and think because of that, they are good to go and just blast around in snow. Well Newton don't give a fuck if you have AWD when all four wheels slip right off the road.

I agree, AWD/chains/Snows/confidence are no reasons to not drive cautiously (which means something other than riding the break or going 20mph up te pass. Pretty sure most of the cars I see in the bad accidents on HW2 are AWD or 4WD; why? Because the drivers are dumbfucks who think that their AWD Audi/Subaru/SUV is a 'laws-of-physics-don't-apply-to-me' pass, which it is not.

Difference in driving on ice at <-10 C and [-3, 1] C is quite notable. I would not apply lessons learned from driving midwinter in Alaska, to the WA and CA passes in the winter.

And no, I don't like the government telling people what to do, but I also think whining about having to carry some $40 chains in your $20.000+ car is childish, and indicative of not having the common sense to know when to slow down a bit when the roads are dicey.

Considering it's pissing rain here and on the highway, I think your supposition may be incorrect. We drive here in every condition cold warm, fluffy snow and wet on ice. Actually the school district canceled school today because of the ice, bummer because I was going to take the little one skiing today but I can't with both.

[hutash]

California chain requirements are because 29.9 million residents of California do not live in snow areas and most have never driven in snow, or do so once every couple of years. As much as I hate it, it must suck to be a CHP on 395 or I-80 when it snows, and the gapers hit the roads enmass. It's just reality people, deal with it.

Personally I like the way Nevada deals with it. They don't make a big deal of chain control, but if they pull you out of a snow bank or you cause an accident they come down hard.

[Tye 1on]

I'm much happier with snow/ice braking in the '06 Tacoma after pulling the ABS fuse. Damn antilocks would put all braking to the tires on ice instead of the ones on bare pavement...
never really thought about buying chains, do carry a tow strap and shovel...

[char]

Meh, $40 in chains does not cause $1000 in body damage if you have them in the trunk and show them to the CHP, unless you actually need them. Last time I checked awd cars have the same number of breaking wheels as 2wd cars. I hear being able to accelerate faster when your going into a turn to fast is great. $1000 in body work, and $40 in tires looks cheap compared to a totaled $20,000 car, couple hundred thousand in medical bills, and a dead friend.

I don't buy that AWD helps you stop any faster, which is what is really important. And AWD does not help SNOW tires, grip on ice.

It cool, I have ICE tires, drive at a reasonable speed and have no plans to buy chains or ever use them on my Subaru.