Diesel problems at sub-zero temps at ski areas overnight

[haydukelives]

I just got my first diesel, so I am learning about fuel "gel" and glow plugs,etc ,not a problem with gas. Aside from adding something to the tank for cold temps,especially at 8000 ft. overnight,or multiple nights, is this a real or theoretical problem ? Any tales of experience with starting problems,etc or any tips would be appreciated

[anemic]

its not a pretend problem so that's why it's common to see electric grid plug-in cords for vehicles in the high country, and diesel vehicles even in the low country. "block heaters" also common the upper midwest. even on gas engines.

[IAlove]

In my experience the crap you pour in your gas tank is a weak preventative for gel problems. Adding it to the tank after you begin to gel up is a complete waste.

[BCtransplant]

Not sure where you're located, but also be careful of any biodiesel content in the diesel you pump. It likely wouldn't be sold at elevation, but if you fuel in warmer areas and travel into cold temps you might want to ensure you're fuelling with straight ULSD not a bio blend. Bio content will add to the gelling issues.

[haydukelives]

I wont have a plug-in,but I do have a generator.Any kind of plug-in to the generator that would warm up the important parts in the am after 0DEG F night? Is it necessary?

[anemic]

well if you have a generator then you can easily plug in a trouble light with a 100watt incandescent bulb, or maybe even one of those chicken lights (for a coop, from a farm & feed store, for warming chicks). warm the block that way. it's only necessary if you cant start it.

[DougW]

We had problems with our skid steer when we filled it in early fall and had gel proablems in winter. Some water issues too. But in winter they change the mix of the diesel to prevent gelling. So if filling up in a warm area I would put some anti gel in when you fill for insurance.

Having a block heater and a plug in for you car is standard in Canada. When the Electrican wired my barn he put in a 20 amp circuit as he has run into trucks having a bigger block heater than a 15amp circuit can handle.

[Harry]

Number 2 diesel is what is normally sold as "diesel". It turns from a liquid to a gelatin at approx 0F. Using "anti-gel" additives will get you to maybe -10F.

Number 1 diesel won't gel until -40F. But it will cut your fuel ecomomy by 20% or so. Number 1 is usually available at truckstops or farm supply places. Note: jet fuel JP-5 is the same as Number 1 diesel.

"Winter Blend diesel" is mixture of Number 1 and Number 2. Ask what the ratio is.

Like someone said ^^^, once you gel, antil-gel additives don't do shit. Once you gel, only heat will solve your problem. And gelling is usually in someplace that you do not think of, like a small bend in a fuel line. So plugging in a block heater after you are gelled often does not do shit.

Do everything you can to keep from gelling. Once you have gelled, often the only solution is to get towed into a warm garage to thawed out.

I am the VP of a trucking company in Montana, so I deal with these problems all the time.

[guroo270]

Hey, Harry, what trucking company? (PM me when you get a chance)

As far as additives go, it depends on what you get. This is a really good one that you can buy.

http://centramatic.com/Upload/Diesel...ive%20Info.pdf

it's what the pros use. Proactively, not reactively.

[jonesy]

I drove truck in AK during the Winter and have for 32 years. The best solution is a inline fuel or tank heater. Even the best fuel grade and adds will not prevent gelling if it's cold enough. Course you can add gasoline to the fuel that keeps it hotter.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Yeah, you need to park somewhere where you can plug in a your block warmer, or you won't be going anywhere by vehicle.
Might wanna get some extension cords.

[MakersTeleMark]

What year, make, and model? I use a block heater and a lower radiator hose heater. There are certainly times when I'd be fucked without them.

[xyz]

I used to live at 9,000 in Colorado. I owned a turbo diesel jetta (never buy one...ever). I didn't have a place to plug in and my parking spot has no shelter from buildings etc. I had a hell of time in winter getting it started in the early mornings. the local diesel was apparently winterized as well. I went through several sets of glow plugs. You have to cycle them like 5 times before starting in the serious cold. I would find a way to plug-in somehow or get the inline fuel or tank heater.

[MakersTeleMark]

Three folks in my very small town have TDI's and love them. It gets below zero here all the time. Hell, we had an entire week of below zero already. No problems whatsoever and none of them plug in.

Older trucks with less sophisticated pre-combustion heating systems and big cast iron blocks are an entirely different matter. Trust me, I spent 5 hours in the engine compartment today after a week of no starts, even plugged in. It was my own fault though, not the machine's. I ignored the small glow plug problem and had cascading failure which turned my rig into a 10k lb. paperweight. Now I'm completely coated in engine muck, but she turns right over with no smoke.

[ACH]

haydukelives, head over to the expeditionportal
Do a search there and some poking around.
Some good information there.

[lynchdogger]

In my experience the crap you pour in your gas tank is a weak preventative for gel problems. Adding it to the tank after you begin to gel up is a complete waste.

Not true this will and does help from 20 years running diesel trucks use only if needed. Use the 911 (red container on the right for emergencies). The white container is your preventative - use it on every fill up.



Obviously you do not want to gel up to begin with. Follow what others have said - plug it in! Block heater for sure / and use the above fuel preventative treatment (some is already in there in the winter unless you are making your own) but add more each fill. Do not allow your tank to sit on empty for too long - run full tanks.

[P_McPoser]

I used to live at 9,000 in Colorado. I owned a turbo diesel jetta (never buy one...ever). I didn't have a place to plug in and my parking spot has no shelter from buildings etc. I had a hell of time in winter getting it started in the early mornings. the local diesel was apparently winterized as well. I went through several sets of glow plugs. You have to cycle them like 5 times before starting in the serious cold. I would find a way to plug-in somehow or get the inline fuel or tank heater.

That thing was a certified piece of shit. Hey, btw, I'm working with one of your buddies from Africa over here.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using TGR Forums

[XXX-er]

We had problems with our skid steer when we filled it in early fall and had gel proablems in winter. Some water issues too. But in winter they change the mix of the diesel to prevent gelling. So if filling up in a warm area I would put some anti gel in when you fill for insurance.
.

yeah you filled up with summer fuel so it wouldn't start when the temp got cold, I ran TDi's for 10 winters up here and what you gotta watch is the shoulder season in november, I would NOT fill the tank I would leave it mostly empty so I don't get caught with a tank full of unwinterized fuel, also if I need to treat fuel I will be treating less, so in shoulder season I never fill up I just get 20$ at a time

All the fuel up here along hy 16 is refined at husky in prince george and is usually good all winter but one november I bought fuel down south in Williams lake which is refined in Vancover drove due north to ski Powder king, the arctic front drops and the car would not start at -20C

As mentioned something that will get a diesel started IS heat so if you can plug in a 1500W heat gun pump some hot air into the air intake to get started and refuel before engine shut down & cool off

for TDi's you can either get an plugin oil pan heater or a plugin coolant heater that works better

starting an unplugged TDi at -20C with a good battery should go, -30C maybe ,-40C ... forget it

[goldenshowers]

We own two 2003 tdi's. I have started them both at bellow -40C (or F take your pick) without plugging in after sitting outside overnight. All you need is a good additive when you fuel up and cycle the glow plugs a couple of times (they do all work don't they?). Here they bring out diesel fuel with anti-gel properties in it usually around Halloween which will be good until about -30C with no additional additives.

Plug in when you can and buy a plug in coolant heater or better yet a diesel powered coolant heater. It's nice having the car blow heat out of the vents at -40 and have it at operating temp when you turn the key.

As for the oil pan heater, don't waste your money on the vw one. Mine came with the car. The adhesive that they use to hold it on the oil pan does not work very well. I found mine sitting on the top of my skid plate one morning as it had come unglued from the oil pan. This may have been a huge issue had I had a plastic belly pan still on.

[XXX-er]

the engine will fire at -40 it just didn't wana turn over at that temp, I did run synthetic oil of course and the VW battery is the best you can buy IMO

the dealers originaly instaled the pan heaters so that is what most cars have, the blocks don't have forst plugs like most cars so there were no block heaters as we know them for gas engines my kid put the frost heater in his 09 TDi and it work very well

dumping the belly pan for the skid plate is a great idea

[blondin]

hey duke I wouldn't worry at that temp. If you're in a windy spot maybe just try and protect the front of your car (radiator, etc). Also a good quality diesel such as Shell VPower is really much better than the lower priced stuff sold elsewhere (at least here in Euroland). In the worse case scenario, maybe having a small portable stove could prove to be a good idea...

[char]

hey duke I wouldn't worry at that temp. If you're in a windy spot maybe just try and protect the front of your car (radiator, etc). Also a good quality diesel such as Shell VPower is really much better than the lower priced stuff sold elsewhere (at least here in Euroland). In the worse case scenario, maybe having a small portable stove could prove to be a good idea...

If you are really worried about it you could install an Espar diesel burning heater. Not cheap, but no generator required.

[The Reverend Floater]

Just stumbled on this thread, Hayduke. I've owned a few Ford 7.3L's and also live at altitude where it gets cold as balls.

Plug your truck in when you can and makes sure your batteries, glow plugs and glow plug relay are functioning well. If you can't, a mechanic can test them in less than 30 minutes at most. Regarding additives, I use Howe's Diesel Treatment in every tank, available at most auto parts stores. My truck starts after sitting idle for days in a yurt outside of Stanley--consistently the country's "low". I swear by the stuff and it's supposedly alcohol free, so you don't have to worry about drying out your seals.

[MakersTeleMark]

Get a multi meter and test your glow plugs in under 1 beer. Either a test light on the plug, or a resistance check on it will let you know in an instant. The relay is self explanatory, at least on a truck as I don't know shit about small german cars.

Also consider running a different viscosity oil in the winter to help with cold starts.

[~mikey b]

or take it to the fucking shop