Home Protection/Firearms Thread

[Foggy_Goggles]

WSD - many people won't tell you unless you ask. I think it depends on your upbringing. Living in VT, guns just were not a big deal. I own a shotgun for hunting, a .22 for camping entertainment and a couple of handguns. For me, the benefits of gun ownership outways the negatives. That being said, don't own a gun if you don't think you could kill someone. Waving a gun at someone is going to get you shot.

[lemon boy]

I see that the locks/loaded comment generated undue controversy.

I maintain that it is personal choice and people will have to come up with a protocol that they are comfortable with depending on a whole host of factors from local laws to kids to just what you're comfortable with, access control etc.. etc.. etc... I know people who safely run the gamut from having a loaded gun stashed/boxed near the bed to people who have everything locked down all the time. Sorry but there's no perfect across the board rule.

The boxes are great for handguns though. As with everything, Cabelas has a decent selection of the handgun boxes: Safes I've seen them at gun stores for as little as 70 bucks.

I have no kids and don't lock guns unless kids/guests (eg: party) are going to be in the house, I keep a basket full of 3" lead 4s (okay, it is mixed with steel BBBs) by the bed and the shotgun underneath. I personally think that unloaded and unlocked is perfectly safe for my situation and a fine general rule. With kids, that obviously would change.

regardless, treat every gun like a loaded one till you have personally verified it is not.

Cornhole: IIRC as long as the barrel is >18" you're fine even if it is home mod (BATF site can tell you).
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Handguns: IMVHO if you're gonna have a handgun for home protection you should be VERY proficient with its use, know exactly how consistently it functions with the ammo you intend to use (goes bang every time) and use the premium home protection ammo's. Handgunning is way way way harder than shotgunning. I don't have one (I'd like one though)

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WSD: I'm not particularily surprised, there are a LOT of guns in the US (and Canada too). I have guns I bought for hunting and keep one handier than the rest, just because I can.
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Macdaddy: A regular dog is great and can be a great deterent/part of your protection, bad ass ones are more trouble than they're worth.

In general if somebody gets hurt on your property even in the comission of a crime you can be held liable (yes, this FUCKING SUCKS). You'll have to check your state's laws regarding the use of force against an intruder (I think packing.org has some of that stuff). CO has a very favorable homeowner law. The sad part is that if somebody breaks into your house you are best off making them dead.

Having kids in the house changes your equation a lot and you'll have to teach them about guns if you do and IMO keep it locked somehow.
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Folks who didn't grow up with guns would do well to take one of the safety classes, avalable at almost any gun shop or range
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I also agree that not everyone needs or should have a gun but should you choose to do so...
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Foggy: why don't you buy a shorty 12ga 3" gun so you can come turkey hunting this spring


edit: disclaimer:

I am not a lawyer nor would I classify myself as a "firearms expert."

[subtle plague]

Having said that, I'm not a proponent of assault weapons nor fully automatics nor rifles that hold 50 bullets.

But where is the fun with those small hand guns ?
it's not very cool to shoot through the ceiling(in case the burglar is downstairs) and cry with a maniac voice: EAT THIS, FREAK ! if all you got is a lousy six shooter.

[MacDaddy]

good thread! thanks for the info Lemon

I am very familiar with vicious dogs and yes they are a huge liability, huge!

[Tippster]

Once again, I love Canada.

Yep. More guns per capita than any country on earth.

[PlayHarder]

Once again, I love Canada.

Don't get to cocky. I awoke to some crackhead trying to walk away with my tv from a house on SW Marine Dr. and came home to my house in Okotoks to find 2 punks jumping my back fence after kicking in my basement door moments earlier. Both times ended with no confrontation, but with the number of stabbings, shootings and home invasion type robberies in the news increasing dramatically for the last 8 or 10 years we're not as safe up here as some like to think.

[lemon boy]

Winchester Link:
http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodin...=012C&offset=0

[Ireallyliketoski2]

The last time I fired a gun I shot myself in the toe, sometimes I think I would have been better off if I had just shot myself in the head. I don't own any guns, nowadays, I keep a stale loaf of italian bread on top of my refrigerator as a defense weapon.

[schuss]

I don't have any in my current house, but then again we're a gang of four guys who could probably bring the ruckus on anyone who came in. In my dad's house, we have many guns, just due the place we lived in. I got my first when I was 10, took hunter safety at 13, decided not to hunt. I feel proficient and comfortable around them, just because you grow up with them in the backwoods of NH (my friends house was classified as an "arsenal" due to so many hunting rifles). If you do feel the need to go buy a home defense gun, LB's post was spot on with shotguns and safety courses. Handguns look cool, but are really, really, hard to shoot, especially when you're shitting your pants trying to protect your place in the dead of night. Shotguns schick-chick alone is worth it, as everybody knows that sound and what it means. Also shotguns don't miss, they just hit less or more. Shooting can be a fun hobby, just remember that safety comes first with guns.

[cmsummit]

I think it depends on your upbringing. Living in VT, guns just were not a big deal. I own a shotgun for hunting, a .22 for camping entertainment and a couple of handguns. For me, the benefits of gun ownership outways the negatives. That being said, don't own a gun if you don't think you could kill someone. Waving a gun at someone is going to get you shot.

I agree 100%. Growing up in the "sticks" of Maine, guns were a way of life. My entire family are hunters and I was taught at a young age how to use a firearm with knowledge and respect. I was hunting with a .410ga shotgun when I was 10.
My wife on the otherhand is from Long Island and has never used a gun and will probably never learn how to use one, since they scare the hell out of her. I've tried explaining to her that guns used with knowledge, safety and respect are not dangerous, but she's not gonna change in her ways. That's fine by me. My kids are gonna be taught how to use guns with knowledge, safety and respect, just as I was.

[Nate Dogg]

Thanks for making light of a very important subject. I am currently living in the city for school, but I'm in campus housing which is more or less relatively safe, with my room itself being one of the furthest removed from any possibility of a break-in. However, I'm planning on living off campus in an apartment next year and never even considered the thought of defending one's apartment. I've only ever been exposed to home defense in the suburbs (as one friend who lives in the woods has an arsenal quite capable of defending against a small army, although used for hunting or collection purposes). Does anyone have opinions on appropriate defense for one's apartment (if any) in the city? Also, do any laws in the city make this more difficult?

[Jumper Bones]

god bless the 2nd Amendment.

why is it that sawed-off shots are so illegal? Is it the concealability? Is the shorter barrel more lethal in spread? just curious.

my roommate is a gun nut to be sure...one of the fringe types. He's got 2 AR-15s, an AK-47, a handgun of some kind, and I believe a semi-automatic shotgun.

personally I don't see the romance with the pump-action, yeah it makes a cool sound but a semi-auto can shoot sooooo much faster...which is of sonsiderable use when you're pheasant hunting, and can't shoot for shit

[lemon boy]

Nate:

We make light of every subject

You will have to check the laws in the city you're going to live in. The police will be able to tell you if the city has more stringent gun laws than the state (also you need to check on your state, again www.packing.org should have a wealth of general info for you). I know almost nothing about the gun laws on the east coast other than that they are usually much more stringent than those out here.

In general, any one of the shotguns discussed above would do you fine (as long as you can own them). Apartments = Shoot shot smaller than say 1's (ie: 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s,). The larger shot sizes (especiallly buckshot, 2x especially one of the specialty metal ones like Hevi-shot) could go through walls and injure/kill neighbors.

Looking back on my drunken stoned party college days IIWY I would have a more rather than less stringent locking protocol just because there is likely to be a lot of people who may not be firearms savvy through your place. Maybe a locking case or a cable trigger/receiver lock actually locked to something.

You might also be just fine without one. I lived happily and comfortably for many years w/o a shotgun (just a billy club and a knife ) A decision only you can make.

I really hope nobody thinks that I'm making light of this subject. Having a gun in ones home is an awesome responsibility.

[lemon boy]

Jumper, RE: Semi-auto vs. pump

I can't think of an auto that is configured to accept a total of 7 or more rounds (might be able to get extension tubes though?) and semis are often prone to being finicky. A pumper will digest ANY ammo (of the correct gauge/length), every time. Pumps in general require less maintenance. Semis are also more expensive than pumpguns.

And the difference in speed between which you can get off shots is IMVHO unimportant and negligible, especially considering that you can't get back on target any faster anyway and I can shuck a pump gun very very fast.

When the argument comes up between wheel guns and semi pistols the math is a bit different cause the semi can be loaded faster (a speedloader for a revolver is fast though) and generally holds more rounds.

BTW- AR's and AK's are FUCKING FUN to shoot and most of the AR's I've seen have been very, very accurate.

[Nate Dogg]

lemon boy, I suppose I worded that poorly. I think you're delivering the essential info and outlets to additional info on a extremely important and for some people, touchy subject. I intended to say something to the effect of shining a light on an important subject.

My gun knowledge is extremely minimal, and for anyone willing to take time out of their day to share what they know, it truly is much appreciated.

I agree with your opinion that a very secure location would be necessary for a weapon in a college environment, too dangerous to have available to those in a party, or even just drunken friends. Thanks for the info on shot size, as that was one of the things I was curious about in an apartment environment.

I will potentially be in the Mission Hill area (although improving still some unsavory characters), although preferrably closer to some Back Bay digs if money permits. The reason I brought it up was because after having a murder on campus over the past summer, a murder within a few blocks of campus, and one roommate being beaten up, and another running from 3 would-be muggers, I'd say defending one's property isn't a bad idea. Mind you I realize these were outside of the living environment and I'm not interested in a concealed carry, and more towards avoidance (i.e. know where you are going, at what time of day, and if you are traveling with anyone) when out and about, and other self defense methods in the worst scenario -- break-ins are not something we generally get an opportunity to avoid.

[Lurch]

I read somewhere, it was a long time ago so I might be wrong on this, that the accidental shootings from guns kept in the home far outnumbered the recorded instances of a homeowner with a gun protecting his property from an intruder.

One of the many things holding me back from getting a gun is I don’t think I could shoot someone without hesitating for at least a second. That probably won't be true for the intruder. But at the same time I wouldn't want to have a gun and be ready to shoot it without hesitation. What if I mistake a family member for an intruder and lack of hesitation puts me in the accident column.

[FNG]

Date Dogg, I live on the first floor of an appartment complex. I keep a 20g Mossberg shotgun in my bedroom closet and a box of bird shot on my dresser. It's not explicitly against the rules in my lease, but may be covered by the "no explosives" clause. I'm willing to risk the highly unlikely scenario that my lease will be voided to be prepared for the other highly unlikely scenario that my life will be endangered by an armed burgler. With the generally smaller sizes of appartments, I feel that a firearm should either be stored loaded or stored with ammunition close by and easily accessible.

[meatdrink9]

I pretty much stick to grenades these days.

I have shot a ridiculous number of weapons and got pretty good marks, but I still don't own a weapon and I live in the heart of Denver's hood. Not sure if I ever will...although I have heard the dogs (rotweilers and pitbulls) in the alley going nuts at times and formulated attack/defense plans in case somebody were sneaking around out there. I do own some pretty insane home remodeling equipment that's inside. Probably worse than being hit by a bullet.

I'm personally not opposed anybody else having weapons at all, but for some reason they scare me. I just feel like having it around would be more of a liability than a benefit. And I'm no gun JONG, (I was in the artillary for the Army National Guard, I think I went 20 for 20 in the foxhole (sandbags to steady the rifle), but I suck at the prone, maybe 13 for 20).

In school we had several PSA (public service announcement) projects. One issue was guns in the home. The stat that really stood out to me at that time was that a gun in the home was 6 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder.

[lemon boy]

No worries nate, I thought you might have meant shedding some light...

I completely agree re: using your head when out in the wide world. I actually have a little theory that people with CCW's get in statistically more incidents than other folks cause it clouds their judgement. Similar to Grizz's thread, I think he did 100% right the only thing a shotgun would've provided is an extra margin "if." Like I said at the start a gun is no substitute for a brain.

Lurch is also correct that statistically you're more likely to be injured/die by a firearm if one is in your home. Don't be a statistic. That is why using your brain and taking a safety class is so important. Guns and ignorance is wickedly dangerous. Also, if you're a rageoholic drunk or your wife is = no guns

FNG- Unless it says that ammo is an "explosive" you're fine. Ammo is not an explosive (definitionally).

Meat: just wear your Captain skimpy space outfit and scare them off.

[lemon boy]

I want to make it explicitly clear if I haven't:

YOU ARE WAY BETTER OFF NOT HAVING GUNS IF YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO GO THROUGH THE EFFORT OF SAFELY OWNING, USING AND STORING THEM.

A GUN IS A DEADLY WEAPON AND YOU DON'T POINT THEM AT THINGS YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY.

[FNG]

Oh, in addition to the shotgun, I keep one of these in my closet just in case I need backup.

[lemon boy]

fucking sweet Donny Bravo FNG! How much?

[slim]

I keep one of these in my closet just in case I need backup.

Dude, Punani's been out-of-the-closet for years now.

[Sandman]

I keep a Sig 228 9mm around. It a great gun, very will built.
I'm thinking of buying a Benelli Nova 12ga with a 24 in barrel just as a general shotgun. I keep a couple of other guns around, all locked up as they should be.

I read somewere that the "more likely to shot a family member then someone breaking into your home" thing was some what off as it added in things like murders (remember your more likely to be murdered by a family member or someone else you know then someone you don't)

[mmmthmtskier]

I remember two articles concerning this very topic. In one article, they shot a mock sheetrock wall with various sizes of shot with an 870 riot shotgun and found the maximum size to safely use(for neighbors, children in the next room) was #6 birdshot. In another article(by Chuck Taylor, one of the leading .45 experts in the world), recommended 7 1/2 or #8 birdshot used with a coachgun-style shotgun(seen in almost any John Wayne that had a stagecoach scene). Much safer, easy to use by anyone, less muzzle velocity than your hunting shotgun...