Quad Training

[ammonation]

Hello all:

Around this time last year we had a lengthy discussion on training, and quad burn. The majority of the members argued I was skiing backseat, and I needed to get fitted for boots.

Well I did both, definitely tried skiing with more forward lean, even used heel wedges... No luck.. Suffered all season.

Ultimately I think I need to strengthen my quads for this season. I do work out around 4-5 times a week, cardio on the elliptical and then weight lifting just upper body. I use the elliptical as it is less strain on the knees, I gimp around the next day if I run, too much strain on my knees.

So what to do for training this year? I am torn between limping for a month and building muscle/cardio thru running, or weight training on my quads.

[moose pit]

More forward lean and adding heel wedges does not equal skiing over your boots. It will fuck with your knees if you are riding your tails. Get shorter softer skis, ditch the high heels and ski blue runs and focus on pressuring the tongues of your boots.

[ammonation]

More forward lean and adding heel wedges does not equal skiing over your boots. It will fuck with your knees if you are riding your tails. Get shorter softer skis, ditch the high heels and ski blue runs and focus on pressuring the tongues of your boots.

lol, going from a 173 to 179 this year.

[moose pit]

lol, going from a 173 to 179 this year.

We'll then... still short. I'd like to think my advice still stands, and some times a couple hits of the electric lettuce helps too.

[ammonation]

We'll then... still short. I'd like to think my advice still stands, and some times a couple hits of the electric lettuce helps too.

I am a recovering cocaine addict, on days when its a skiers dream to be out there, its a nightmare for me.. All.. that...white... powder...

[Orthoski]

One of the best ways I found is to use a spinning bike (bought a used one from a gym that was closing) and crank it up to really high resistance with 60sec interval training. With resistance high enough to get yourself to a point where your thighs are burning after 60sec, 3-5 times per session, I found I was all set with only minutes invested a day.

[pappag]

Bikram yoga or some alternative version of it. I've put on 20lbs of muscle in the past 16 months without lifting any weights ... nearly all of it in the lower body.

[Tye 1on]

Leg blasters. Start with 4 mini 3/week, work up to 6 full. http://mountainathlete.com/subpage_d...110&page_ID=14

[ammonation]

I think I need to take a weeks or two off from cardio all together, fairly sure I have strained quads right now. I am leaning towards either running, or just doing weight training on the legs come november. Wouldn't hurt to get my heart in shape as well, something the elliptical and weights don't do.

[rod9301]

Running won't do much for your quads.
Use a squat machine, inclined st around 45 degrees. Goal is to push 250+% of your body weight. If you weigh 180, that means 470 lbs. Ideally 300 % of your body weight, or 540 lbs. 3-5 sets of 12 reps each.
You will be able to do 2,000 vertical foot nonstoppers on steep runs.
You of course need good cardio as well
If you mountain bike, the strength you will get from havi ung strong quads will really increase your climbing speed, plus you will clean up easier on technical uphill terrain.

[L7]

MORE forward lean is exactly opposite of what you want at least if you are talking about in the boots. This will cause you to drop your hips back to counter and may limit your ability to flex at the ankle to stay centred. Result?.... backseat skiing and quad burn.

If you stand straighter in the boot (and on the binding so pay attention to delta angle of the binding) you be able to stand taller and more centred and find it easier to maintain that centre when you flex to absorb terrain, land or generally absorb pressure from the skis.

The heel wedge MIGHT help with some of this but creating one problem with the boot and trying to fix it with more stuff in the boot may easily just create more problems.

[old goat]

MORE forward lean is exactly opposite of what you want at least if you are talking about in the boots. This will cause you to drop your hips back to counter and may limit your ability to flex at the ankle to stay centred. Result?.... backseat skiing and quad burn.

If you stand straighter in the boot (and on the binding so pay attention to delta angle of the binding) you be able to stand taller and more centred and find it easier to maintain that centre when you flex to absorb terrain, land or generally absorb pressure from the skis.

Exactly. More forward lean may be good for racing and other high speed groomer skiing but exactly the wrong thing for off piste skiing--at least in terms of thigh burn. I fixed my thigh burn by taking the rear spoilers out of my boots (only reason i had them in there was for my chicken calves).

[L7]

Build up the tongues to take up space.

[BigHerm]

I do front squats and step-ups as part of a "functional" training program. No single joint movements, avoiding machines if possible. I was sore as hell for a few days after restarting, but now there is only a tolerable mild soreness.

You might want to put your boots back to normal and see how it goes after some weight training. Don't be surprised if you still get quad burn at the start of the season. It always takes me a few days to get my ski legs back.

Good luck.

[Patches]

99% sure its a technique problem. How old are you and how many total days on skis do you have? Have you been out with a (really good) ski instructor to have your form checked?

[Rossymcg]

im going to put my cock on the block and say its your skiing technique also, have you been in a race club as a junior? post some stoke we'll see straight away

[Toadman]

I do front squats and step-ups as part of a "functional" training program. No single joint movements, avoiding machines if possible. I was sore as hell for a few days after restarting, but now there is only a tolerable mild soreness.

Good luck.

Bench step ups are good. Weighted with dumbells on to a 12"-18" bench are good weight/cardio type workouts.

I also like to do weighted lunges with dumbells too. Followed by some wall squats to get a good leg burn. Build up to whatever you can stand. For me about 3 minutes. I try to do 3-4 sets of those.

If you have access to a bike or spin machine, and do intervals with high resistance, those are great quad workouts, along with a bit of cardio thrown in.

[Premier71]

There is some solid advice here. But no one has mentioned that the elliptical is for pussies and it's only useful purpose is to get in extra weight loss without overtraining. I would recommend 100 burpees for time, followed by a 3 min wall-sit, repeat 2x. This will solve cardio and quads.

[Rossymcg]

thats some great advice right there "elliptical is for pussies", not a good cross over for skinning then?

There is some solid advice here. But no one has mentioned that the elliptical is for pussies and it's only useful purpose is to get in extra weight loss without overtraining. I would recommend 100 burpees for time, followed by a 3 min wall-sit, repeat 2x. This will solve cardio and quads.

[neufox47]

You might have glutes that are asleep which is impacting your skiing form and putting undue stress on your quads. You can test this by doing a single leg glute raise. If your hamstring cramps you are not firing glutes. Then you need to do glute activation work 5-6 days a week.

for gods sake don't use a squat machine / leg press or do wall sits.

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[charles martel]

It's good you're working hard o try to figure this out. Clearly, something is missing or wrong in your total ski thingie.

All good advice given here, but, as someone above said, we don't know your age, height, weight, etc. Plus, as someone also mentioned, we don't see you stand in your boots with your skis on. And we don't see you skiing.

Physical therapy/sport training has really gotten good. Colleges are turning out all kinds of really competent people who then become state licensed therapists. Find a physical therapy place that also evaluates and develops training programs for people who are weekend athletes. It will be worth the money. I know professional dancers and high end skiers/boarders who depend on these professionals.

It sounds like your boots/bindings are off. Unfortunately, the people who are the boot people are not college educated/state licensed, so with them, it's hit or miss. Some are very good, others are complete quacks, which includes people with strong PSIA backgrounds. Just as an example, one guy, a PSIA Level III guy told me my alignment was fine and that I needed ski lessons. He handed me his card and told me to set up lessons on the slopes. I drove several hours to a shop recommended to me and they found my left leg was 4 1/2 degrees off, which they told me was not that strange. So, one guy says I'm fine, but the new guys show me how I'm 4 1/2 degrees off. These new guys canted my boots a little at a time and I skied several times with each correction. We've got it right now.

Let people here on TGR know where you live and they can recommend a shop that does good alignment/boot work.

You can fix this problem if you get the right help.

[Mathematics]

I am leaning towards either running, or just doing weight training on the legs come november.

Starting weight training right when ski season starts seems kind of silly. Start asap so you're over the first couple weeks of soreness.

Others here are way more qualified to speak on form, so here's my former-meathead advice: If you have knee issues do 10 minutes of light cardio for warmup, and a couple super light sets of leg extensions to warm up the knee's. Then start squatting...regular squats, front squats, whatever just squat with a barbell - no machines, sleds, or even the smith machine - using just the barbell will activate alot more muscle fiber in your legs, and stabilizing that weight on your own will also help with balance.

Experiment with different stances, you'll find standard squats (feet about 12-18" apart) will focus on your quads towards the knees, powerlifting style (feet 2ft+ apart) will activate your thighs & hamstrings more, both will help with skiing muscles. Go all the way down (ass to grass) every single rep - better to get a full range rep with lighter weight than a half-rep with big plates on the bar.

Trainers at family gyms will have you do 2 sets of 10 or something similar before moving on to a different station - this is BS, do warmup leg extensions and then plan on being in a squat rack for a half hour, maybe 3x10 regular squats, 3x10 wide-stance squats, 2x10 front squats, and then a 1x20 lower weight set to burn up the rest of the glycogen in your muscles. Adding in a couple sets of good mornings at the end would be beneficial for your hamstrings too.

Just as important as the actual weight lifting is to have some protein afterwards to help repair the muscle, will also help reduce soreness. Move your cardio to a different time of day if you can so its not negating the work you're doing to your legs.

EDIT to add - most people are afraid of squats or don't do them because they think they need a trainer to learn proper form. Since you're already on the interwebz trying to solve your problems, I'm assuming you can probably cruise over to bodybuilding.com or look up the exercises on youtube to figure them out. Just start with light weight and make sure you feel the right muscles being worked for each exercise.

[Rossymcg]

try this one out a few times a week, you'll know you've done it,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=pKnP88kWTKA