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Thread: Questions re: Building a shower

  1. #1
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    Questions re: Building a shower

    I'm building a shower in my basement. I've got to jackhammer out the concrete to move the drain because when it was roughed in the must have thought it was good to be able to put your feet in the shower while dropping a deuce. How far I can move the shower drain will probably be dependant on the amount of slope I can get from a potential new location to hook into the existing plumbing, I'm hoping to move it about 2'.

    I want to build a walk in shower with no door, no curtain and no lip to step over. I talked to a couple people who suggested a prefab shower base but none of the ones I've seen look like anything I want and they're fucking expensive. So I'm thinking that since I'm busting out a bit of concrete why not bust out a little more. I'm thinking pour the shower floor to slope into the drain and pour about 1' stub walls around the shower to keep any wood away from the the bottom of the shower. Then frame on top of the stub walls and cover the whole thing with concrete board and tile it all.

    So my question is, does this sound like it will work? Is there and easier or way better way?
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaver View Post
    I want to build a walk in shower with no door, no curtain and no lip to step over.
    If you want no lip, you have no choice but to jackhammer out the concrete in the whole area. But you may want to then repour the shower area itself a few inches below finished height. It's a lot easier to get your slope just so with dry pack mortar, but you don't want to use that for the full thickness of the slab.

    If going this route, I probably wouldn't bother with concrete stemwalls, but just use a treated bottom plate, frame it out normally, and then you have two options:

    1) Use "traditional" cement board walls, like Durock or Hardipanel. Then apply a brush-on waterproofing layer. Or, my preferred route:

    2) Use sheetrock and then apply Kerdi, which is a polyethylene bonded to a fuzzy layer that beds in the thinset. The advantage here is that you also Kerdi the floor, so you have a totally waterproof system where the grout dries super fast and therefore your tile stays cleaner and rarely gets mildew.

    Google around a little bit. Kerdi is the shit and the money you save by using sheetrock instead of cement backerboard usually is pretty close to cancelling out the increased cost of the Kerdi. If you go this route you'll need a special drain but they don't cost very much.

    Edit; I know a bunch of people will say "why do you need a waterproof layer if you have cement board" and I'm not going to argue with those people. Check out johnbridge.com for tons of info on showers. If you are going to take the time and effort to do it, you may as well spend a few more dollars and make it twice as good.

  3. #3
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    I was hired to help this methhead remodel an old commercial space into a livable space once. His girlfriend asked me to help cause he was apparently too amped out to actually do any work. When I looked at the bathroom layout, a person's feet would be in the tub when they sat on the toilet and they would be bumping the sink at the same time. Dude was so fucked up, I had to walk away.

    Have you considered building a pan (4-5 inch high threshold with an inch of drop inside) and putting the drain in a corner?
    You can do that in wood, angle it with beveled shims, then tar, mesh and tile it.
    You'd only have to have a pipe-wide trench to the drain to plumb it.
    That's the cheap and easy suggestion.

  4. #4
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    Very cool idea...i love walk-in showers. I have one in my house. Check with your local bldg inspector on whether you need a trap primer for a floor drain in your basement - this may screw your idea of having a curbless "ADA-style roll-in" shower (even tho it is NOT a "floor drain")

    Try to sell it as an accessble ADA shower to the inspector to get some sympathy in making it happen

    I have heard some unfortunate stories where this kind of installation was not allowed.


    Good luck

  5. #5
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    Definitely pour the new shower pan below finish floor. No reason not to and will help tremendously.

    As far as construction goes, with the right system, likes Root's, there is little worry about the framing. I hope you're ok with a slick floor. Curbless showers basically mean water gets everywhere.

    The ADA argument won't work in a basement, unless you also decide to install an elevator. Though I'm not seeing how a trap primer, which already has to be a foot above f.f.e. would be a problem with it since he's reframing walls and plumbing anyways. Reality - don't pull a permit. Unless they're really fucking bored, they're not going to come bother you.

  6. #6
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    I've watched enough Holmes on Homes to know that you can't waterproof a shower too much!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackCountryNC View Post
    You can't waterproof a shower forever
    fixed. Every system has a lifespan, there's no such thing as water proof. Hell, even in roots system, condensation will appear in the wall cavity. Not a huge deal in that situation, but that's the fact of life. And you can damn sure over do it and cause other problems.

  8. #8
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    I second RootSkier's post... definitely go with Kerdi. Also, I have to reiterate what others have said, if you plan to pull a permit, your local authorities may not allow curbless configurations. A quick phone call can clarify that of course.

  9. #9
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    Beaver, you've got good advise so far. I agreed that Kerdi is the way to go but the other systems will work well also. I believe this is a case of workman ship trumping materials. If you want curbless take your time and figure out all you elevations before you start.

  10. #10
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    http://www.quickdrainusa.com/ I've never used one but check these out. Looks like a great way to go.
    I've used the Kurdi system countless times. Works really well. But their no good if you don't want a curb.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny P View Post
    I've used the Kurdi system countless times. Works really well. But their no good if you don't want a curb.
    Why?

    P.S. The Quickdrain looks pretty sweet.
    .....

  12. #12
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    Thanks, lots of good info in those links.

    Building permit? WTF is that? Living rurally pretty much anything goes.
    You are what you eat.
    ---------------------------------------------------
    There's no such thing as bad snow, just shitty skiers.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    Why?

    P.S. The Quickdrain looks pretty sweet.
    .....
    The Kurdi systems base is about 1 1/4" thick. It sits on top of your sub floor, the curb sits on the outside of the pan and holds any excess water in the pan. The curb can be cut down to be a bit shorter. But with out it the finish wouldn't look right.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by brice618 View Post
    The ADA argument won't work in a basement, unless you also decide to install an elevator.
    as you well know, accessibility is not an all or nothing goal...just cuz you got stairs doesn't eliminate the usefulness of accessibility. ADAAG recognizes this and enforces it in public facilities

    [/sidetrack]

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by brice618 View Post
    Though I'm not seeing how a trap primer, which already has to be a foot above f.f.e. would be a problem with it since he's reframing walls and plumbing anyways.
    i'm just relating a specific story from a professional in a different jurisdiction...I think he had an inspector who wanted a primer right over the hole...i didn't get it either

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny P View Post
    The Kurdi systems base is about 1 1/4" thick. It sits on top of your sub floor, the curb sits on the outside of the pan and holds any excess water in the pan. The curb can be cut down to be a bit shorter. But with out it the finish wouldn't look right.
    I don't understand what you are getting at. There is no reason a Kerdi shower cannot have a pan flush with the floor edge. There is no requirement that you use Kerdi's premade/presloped showerpans. They are simply for convenience. You can do a traditional drypack preslope in whatever configuration you want and then simply apply the membrane over the top of whatever you create.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    I don't understand what you are getting at. There is no reason a Kerdi shower cannot have a pan flush with the floor edge. There is no requirement that you use Kerdi's premade/presloped showerpans. They are simply for convenience. You can do a traditional drypack preslope in whatever configuration you want and then simply apply the membrane over the top of whatever you create.
    Your correct the membrane can be used on any thing. It doesn't require the pan.
    When The Kurdi system is mentioned I always mean the whole kit. Including the tray.

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