thinking about flying lessons, any pilots around here?

[assman]

Last fall, I got invited by a client to go offshore fishing. Not my thing but, it's a client so I agree to go. Turns out, we were flying there in the guy's twin engine something or other. 5 guys load in and I lucked out and grabbed the rt front seat. Once underway, the client turned off the autopilot and let me fly it for a while. Awesome experience.

I have been looking into getting my license but, I have some questions. How useful is it? I mean the guy I flew with has major bank and for him to own a twin (and a 40+ foot sportfish with a full time captain) is like spare change. I have some disposal income and would either look for a partnership or club.

Can you actually go anywhere? Most of the small airports seem to be in bumfuck nowhere and from what i understand, major airports charge big landing and parking fees to keep small planes out of there. Is flying vfr to go anyplace a possibility or will I need to get an IFR rating to actually travel?

At the moment I am living in the eastern part of the states which is a high traffic area. What I would be looking to do is take me and a guest someplace for a weekend either a city or beach, land someplace where I didn't need to rent a car and then have to drive an hour to actually arrive at my destination. .

[MakeFast]

From my experience (which is flying copilot for work numerous times):

You can go places. The pilots I have flown with frequently take trips to the coast (a 5 hour drive becomes a 1 hour flight) for the day. Around major airports there are also small airports - so you might not be able to land in the middle of the city, but that little suburb 40 minutes away has a strip and often small airports have complimentary cars you can borrow for a few hours.

I have been logging the time I fly for work since I always hire an instructor - have about 15 hours so far. But, getting the rest of the time you need is expensive. Talking to the instructors - you want to have all the cash to get your training done (and a cushion) before you start. If you fly 2-3x a week it may take you 40-50 hours before you are good to go to take the test. Fly once a week that might be 60 hours. Fly twice a month and it may take 80.

My .02 and something I am considering as well. Let me know what you decide and how it goes.

[Ted Striker]

The real question is how much money (and spare time) you have. If the answer is not much, then no, a pilot's license wouldn't be useful, so only do it for the love of flying, not for the idea that you might use it for transportation. If you have the money to own something better than a 172 and the free time, then the answer is maybe.

An airplane is an expensive machine that doesn't like to sit around, so if you're serious, you might want to look into fractional ownership.

As for can you go anywhere, that depends on the above. If you've got a nice fast single, and enough time, then sure. If you've got something slow, forget it. It seems counter-intuitive, but most light twins in the private plane crowd are slower than the top of the line singles - plus they cost almost double to operate and maintain.

Do you need an IFR rating? No. You're going to have to accept the idea that if the weather is no good, you're grounded. If you can't accept that, don't even bother. Is it nice to have an IFR rating? Of course. But to maintain any level of proficiency you will need to fly more than the typical private pilot has the time or money to do. Having the training will make you a better pilot though. And having the ability to fly IFR between two places that have VFR weather is very useful.

You're right about the airports. They tend to be in inconvenient locations.

[belgian]

There are airports everywhere. Check out this website for help finding ones in your area:

http://www.skyvector.com/

You can go whereever you want with VFR only ratings, you just have to make sure the weather is going to be good enough along your route of flight. Most importantly for the return trip because you don't want to get stuck. For what you want to do a VFR rating would be just fine and a whole lot cheaper.

Look into a light sport license. You can only carry one passenger and fly specific types of planes, but in the long run it will likely be much cheaper than becoming a member of a club. Here is a synopsis of the rules: http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/fina..._synopsis.html

[single]

Just started my privates, think i am going for my CFI. My first solo is in 2 weeks. Flying is expensive. Getting your license isn't cheap, but buying a plane isn't that bad. Until you look into everything around owning one. Maintenance, storage, fuel, insurance etc. Its really a lifestyle commitment if you want it to make any sense.

A good way to do it sometimes is to own a plane and rent it to a flight school. You usually fly at a discounted rate, and you get rent. Could pay for your lessons, but you have to be prepared to drop some coin up front.

And small planes seem fun on sunny smooth days, but getting stuck in Sioux falls for three days due to weather on a cx or getting bashed around by turbulence for hours on end is definitely a reality.

[assman]

There is a flying club I just heard about that is looking for a partner. 8 guys own a Piper Archer. Seems like a nice plane although an airport I stopped in had a Tiger which seemed a whole lot more exciting.

Once the new wears off, I don't think I'll be a $100. hamburger kind of guy so, I really need to think about the commitment involved both time and money.

[ICEHOCEY77]

better off buying a boat or lighting your money on fire

[warthog]

My buddy has a single Saratoga. Flys to Savannah for the weekend, Charleston for dinner, Key West for fun. Flew the family to the Bahamas for spring break. He fits the mold of lots of free time ans cash to burn, though.

[mtflyer]

I have my private pilot's license, and can tell you that if you're getting it to travel/go places you're gonna need to get an instrument rating at some point. I'm not instrument rated and even though I don't really use flying to travel, I've often found myself wishing I was instrument rated. If you're just getting it because you love flying and maybe wanna travel a bit then you'd probably be fine VFR. Since I just fly VFR I usually end up flying to places like this, which is not bad at all:





I'd recommend finding a flight school you like and taking and intro flight or two. You could probably plan on spending $5k to $6k for your private license. BTW, twins are super expensive to operate and maintain - think 25+ gallons of fuel per hour plus maintenance. Owning a single engine, fractional ownership, or finding a club is definitely the way to go.

[Name Redacted]

Take an intro flight, join a club and you can rent the plane pretty cheap. As you build hours, you can get more ratings as needed.

[Ted Striker]

I could never get the numbers to pencil out for the cost to get a license, use it and maintain flying skills - easily a couple nice vacations a year.

This is accurate. If the actual flying doesn't do anything for you, it isn't worth it. Not by a long shot.

[Cono Este]

I think flying is like getting your Drivers License x10. But only if you have the cash. But, if you think you might be able to afford it down the road, starting on hrs now in a cheap cessna aint a bad idea.

My ex father in law has a sweet bonanza. Its actually a Debonair, built to higher specs. its worth about 100k, and he flies back and forth from Milwaukee to Stl like its nothing. Probably runs him 25k a yr though in up keep, hangar etc. You could tell when it was in the shop. I flew with my neighbor in CA too. Split tail bonanza, and we'd fly all over the place and land on dirt strips in northern Nevada just for lunch. Truckee to the Bay Area was nothing.

If I hit the lotto, I'd fly fulltime until I was rated to pilot my own King Air or TBM. I can dream.

[P_McPoser]

I did the sport pilot ratings. It's a good, cheaper way in and if you use real CFIs all the hours can be used towards PPL later if you decide you need to fly at night or bigger airplanes etc. That being said, I haven't flow in 6 months now because I rather spend money on more necesarry stuff.

[Jangles13]

My father has his license (single IFR), and I grew up using a Cessna Cutlass (172RG) as the family station wagon. Had a half-ownership with another family. All our family was a substantial distance away, and to fly the 3 or 4 of us commercially vs. privately made it "almost" economical. Since it's just the folks now, he sold the plane after a few years (2004) and really hasn't flown much since. It was a great hobby for him, he'll say, but ultimately the $100 hamburgers (they're more like $200 now...) got tiresome and he claims he ran out of places to go. Sitting home on a Friday evening consider: "where do you want to go this weekend?" I think he has 2500hrs time in the 20ish years he flew. And you will want your IFR. The comments about getting stuck somewhere are real, including being in the air and not being able to land - real bad.

You're unlikely to consider anything more expensive. Perhaps a coke habit.

[leroy jenkins]

Do you need an IFR rating? No. You're going to have to accept the idea that if the weather is no good, you're grounded. If you can't accept that, don't even bother.

You gotta accept that with an IFR rating as well.


Not a pilot, flown a decent amount, around 30 hours in sailplanes, about an hour of that soloed, probably about 50-80 hours in control of various powered planes. Known a bunch of pilots.

If you actually wanna do it for convenience of traveling, its really only nice for regional travel. Even very fast single or twin engine planes will be slower and possibly more expensive than the airlines. Of course there is the not getting groped by the TSA, and who can put a pricetag on that?

Gotta remember its a lot of maintenance costs, as well as costs and effort to stay current with your ratings.

If you live somewhere beautiful and just wanna fucking fly goddamitt then get an ultra light. No license needed for the real light ones, good to learn on, some are cheap and pretty safe, can land and take off ina field, some are two seaters. Best bang for the buck.

If you just gotta get up in the air right now, go get a sailplane lesson. They can be had with a good instructor for not much money.

[b dubya]

Another note on the IFR stuff - aside from the extra upkeep of your skills and license IFR equipped planes can be more expensive. Someone mentioned single IFR - please only in a very well maintained one! IFR can be a real buzz to get running nicely... and then the examiner pulls an engine
VFR is a great way to get around but you need to be more flexible.
Sport category could well be worth looking into, thats where I started - not sure how it works these days but my ultralight time didn't count for shit in getting a job but if you don't plan to fly professionally this won't be a problem.
If you're interested enough and can justify the $$$ - do it! the buzz doesn't wear off - at least for a loong time

[Optimus Prime]

I have my private ticket... SEL, SES and instrument...

my opinion is this... if you don't have enough money to afford a plane or join a club and keep flying after you get your ticket, then it's not worth it. it's a use it or lose it skill.

I also live in Alaska and airplanes here are like atv's in the lower 48. I use mine to access skiing in the backcountry, haul shit out of the woods and travel to some of the places that are just a little to far to drive to. My pocket book is tight, but is it worth it? fuck yeah it is... it gets expensive from time to time, but you'd be surprised how many friends will shell out gas money to go up for a bit.

search for a thread I posted a couple of years ago with taking my plane up into the AK range and doing some skiing...

[Ted Striker]

You gotta accept that with an IFR rating as well.

Uhhh yeah... that was my point!

The typical private pilot doesn't fly enough to maintain the proficiency required to fly approaches to minimums and do low vis take offs. Actually, the real issue for many is they never fly enough to gain the proficiency in the first place - they're perpetual beginners. Many private pilots can and do safely fly IFR between two airports that have VFR weather.

[Name Redacted]

You can maintain IFR currency in simulators too. This is definitely a cheaper option if that is important to you. IFR training is recommended if only to be used for inadvertent IFR use.

Airplanes are fucking cheap. If you really wanna drop some cash, get your helicopter ratings!

[flyandski365]

My piggy bank dried up and I'm left with a few hours left to go. Of course now I'll need 15 or so hours to get proficient again for the checkride.

It's expensive, if you do it, do it quickly and all at once. Dragging it out makes it so much more expensive. If you love it, its like nothing else though.

[Ted Striker]

It's expensive, if you do it, do it quickly and all at once. Dragging it out makes it so much more expensive.

Solid advice there. Not only cheaper, but you'll retain more as well.

[b dubya]

You can maintain IFR currency in simulators too. This is definitely a cheaper option if that is important to you. IFR training is recommended if only to be used for inadvertent IFR use.

yeah, aside from the pros & cons of an IF rating; I don't think thats really an issue or something to worry about until you do your VFR - fly around and decide if you want do it then as you'll have a far better idea of what suits you. Shredgnar's point above is a very good one about the 'inadvertent' use!! Whether or not you do an IF rating, extra training/prep in IF is an extremely good idea.
Even flight sim stuff on your PC is good enough to keep to scan ticking over.

[b dubya]

The typical private pilot doesn't fly enough to maintain the proficiency required to fly approaches to minimums and do low vis take offs. Actually, the real issue for many is they never fly enough to gain the proficiency in the first place - they're perpetual beginners. Many private pilots can and do safely fly IFR between two airports that have VFR weather.

^^^ good point here about what your expectations could be for IFR...

get some hours in an aerobatics plane with a good instructor for some aero's & extreme 'unusual attitude' training - exhilarating and very good for your skills. I still remember that stuff from 15 years ago, brilliant fun.

[That was Pontus]

my opinion is this... if you don't have enough money to afford a plane or join a club and keep flying after you get your ticket, then it's not worth it. it's a use it or lose it skill.

This a thousand times over. I had my glider license at 16 & my private pilot license at 18. Never flew after that, simply couldn't afford to build the hours in order to get the proficiency and ratings required to get to the point where it pays for itself back. That & bombing around the prairies was fucking boring unless doing emergency procedures or minor aerobatics.

[flatlander#2]

My younger brother runs a crop spraying operation. In addition to the 8 biggest Air Tractors you can get they have 4 other planes, a 6holer, a 4, a crazy old 2 person and a small 2 person heli. He doesn't fly, just runs the place. He can but why bother when his guys put more hours in the air in a week than most people in a month if they are very fortunate. If you want to fly planes the lessons cost has to be zero concern because it just goes up alot from there. You also have to have the flexibility in your life to put the time in the air, otherwise pay my brothers pilots to fly you in the off season. Or if you want a summer job he always needs guys...not real organic or easy hours. Damn his airport reeks of spray year around and when it is light enough to fly and no wind to spray they do no matter what day. He had a guy stall a fully loaded plane 30 feet off the deck last summer. Dude had alot of hours of experience, just screwed up with 16k lbs of plane coming off the field too slow.