What's the number?

[Benny Profane]

Well, you're a lawyer. Lawyers can do a little work until they can't. Not most people.


And, sorry, most low paying jobs would just bore the shit out of me, and then I'd be prone just to tell a boss or customer or both to fuck off.

[The Suit]

I guess I've had a hard time stopping. I could have a few years ago, but I wanted to do more.
Work was like puzzles and it was incredibly satisfying to figure out how to put things together that did something.

I have a theory that when I retire again, I'm going to work on one or more open-source projects. You could maybe look into that?

[ncskier]

You said to start out with a deposit (balance) of 250k. WTF? You moved goal posts... Again, that's 100% unrealistic for 98% of all 20-30 year olds. No shit you're not a financial planner, you're so full of biased bullshit. Probably a T**** supporter. If you think 1.5% is being raped. You ARE retarded. How many Confederate flags you got in your pickup?

I think you don’t understand how math works. So I am sorry and will use my confederate math apparently. the drag of a half percent in fees is the same. Eventually all balances will reach 250k and the numbers I used will be the same.
So whenever you hit 250k at 25 or 45, 25 years in the future after hitting 250k, the person with lessor fees will have 200k more then you.
Is that clear enough?


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[XXX-er]

I worked at a research center doing field work in the bush, stick bitch on a survey crew, hotshot gigs drivivng shuttle for fishermen/ kayaker/ rafters, fix dry suits, cut ski run for passes, expediting groceries and peopel for bush camps, a little carpentry, there must have been other gigs

basicly you are that guy who answers the cel when they get stuck, very short term/ low/no commitment, its not so much about the money as something to do

the best part is being able TO be a little arrogant, to say no or i want X amount of money to get out bed in the AM, if they need you they pay and then you gotta make it happen

[The AD]

I guess I've had a hard time stopping. I could have a few years ago, but I wanted to do more.
Work was like puzzles and it was incredibly satisfying to figure out how to put things together that did something.

Challenging coding is fun. Hours can fly by.

[Danno]

Well, you're a lawyer. Lawyers can do a little work until they can't. Not most people.

Was I talking about anyone but myself?

[ncskier]

You're losing your shit over something really weird. I mean, you're getting really really worked up over a discussion of financial planning, like somehow your manhood is wrapped up in this discussion. It's just money, mang, lighten up.

Taking a hypothetical number to show the effects of expense ratios (or the effect of any financial thing) is pretty normal. Yes, most people add to the retirement fund regularly, as they should, but it's much easier to do the math -- and show the effect -- with a lump sum amount. So start with $250k and go for 25 years. Doesn't matter whether you're 25 or 40, or whether $250k is a realistic amount for either of those ages (although it certainly is for 40 even if you dispute the 25). It's just a random number to show how high expense ratios eat away at your gains over the long retirement timeframes.

And 1.5% load just to get into a fund is absolutely ridiculous to me. There is no fund that is worth that IMO, but if you're happy with your fund performance after backing out the expenses and load, keep doing it, it's your money after all, nobody else has to agree with you. And I am not a Trump supporter and don't have any confederate flags (it's really fucking weird that you equate that financial advice with Trump/racism). Oh, and dude, retarded is not the preferred nomenclature.

If I had seen this, you would have saved me the typing. Thank you.
Not sure why he is so angry. And while I do drive a fully paid for 70,000 pickup truck I prefer no decals, American or Confederate.

Happy new year everyone!


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[Benny Profane]

Was I talking about anyone but myself?

Er, no.

"And I could also potentially freelance in my field, and pick up a little work here or there, without tying myself to a schedule."

[Danno]

Er, no.

"And I could also potentially freelance in my field, and pick up a little work here or there, without tying myself to a schedule."

I know what I said. I was talking about my retirement. I made no statements about what others could or couldn't do, just what I would do in retirement. If my statements are true (and you have no possible way of ascertaining that they aren't) and solely related to me and my life, what reason is there to point out that not everyone can do what I can do in retirement? I mean, you're already retired, any time you reference that fact -- as you have many times over the years -- should someone respond with "well, most people aren't retired and can't afford to retire"? How would that be even slightly relevant to the statement that you're retired? Unless you put in some argument that other people should do what you did, and I made no such argument.

Your drive to be curmudgeonly for absolutely no reason at all, in places where it doesn't even make sense, is really weird.

[Benny Profane]

Jezuz, lighten up. I've always been envious of lawyers. Knew a few that made coin and stayed active until the end. Just sayin'.

[Danno]

No reason to be envious of lawyers, I am sure not. And I don't make coin, and sure AF don't plan on staying active till the end.

[Meadow Skipper]

You guys. My story is that things have been good for me, but maybe impossible any more. I got in on a now-eliminated federal firefighter/law enforcement retirement system and hung up my boots in my early 50s with 65% of my high three years average, and continued employer contributions to health insurance. I worked in a ski shop for a while, and on paid ski patrol for longer. Those were mainly because my wife had some serious health issues (yay for that great health insurance!) and I wanted a daily distraction. When my wife passed, I bailed on ski patrolling and started traveling and doing whatever I wanted to. You need to be able to amuse yourself in full retirement, and I can do that, which is a key skill. COVID has fucked up my travel plans, but it’ll pass. I get a little SS from pre/post-fed times that covers my medical and a couple of dinners out every month. Staying healthy has increased my options and enjoyment.

But my main point is that I haven’t needed a job to stay content, but that requires, interestingly, a certain amount of discipline and effort.

/gloating

[Mazderati]

Well, no, but that’s the point. The banks don’t really take not making money as an option. Not unlike any other successful business.

So when fed funds target is slammed into the ground and lending rates follow it, deposit rates drop too. Bonus: cheap money. Downside: your money is cheap.

Thanks, but I'm aware of the relationship. It's just a bit precious to suggest banks cannot afford to pay savers and keep branches open because of low interest rates while simultaneously generating hundreds of billions in revenue and paying out hundreds of millions to c-suites.

[XXX-er]

You need to be able to amuse yourself in full retirement, and I can do that, which is a key skill

not everyone can so they go back to work, retirement is not for the faint of heart

[muted]

You guys. My story is that things have been good for me, but maybe impossible any more. I got in on a now-eliminated federal firefighter/law enforcement retirement system and hung up my boots in my early 50s with 65% of my high three years average, and continued employer contributions to health insurance. I worked in a ski shop for a while, and on paid ski patrol for longer. Those were mainly because my wife had some serious health issues (yay for that great health insurance!) and I wanted a daily distraction. When my wife passed, I bailed on ski patrolling and started traveling and doing whatever I wanted to. You need to be able to amuse yourself in full retirement, and I can do that, which is a key skill. COVID has fucked up my travel plans, but it’ll pass. I get a little SS from pre/post-fed times that covers my medical and a couple of dinners out every month. Staying healthy has increased my options and enjoyment.

But my main point is that I haven’t needed a job to stay content, but that requires, interestingly, a certain amount of discipline and effort.

/gloating

Hell ya, good for you and you should gloat. When did they eliminate the law enforcement retirement system? Does that system vary by municipality/county or ?

[Meadow Skipper]

Hell ya, good for you and you should gloat. When did they eliminate the law enforcement retirement system? Does that system vary by municipality/county or ?

It’s a US federal thing. They didn’t eliminate FF/LEO retirement, just back in the Reagan years the feds switched from a classic formula pension determined by a percentage (which increased by the # of years worked) of your annual salary of the last 3 years over to a Social Security + a 401-type of thing that went into different stock funds. Essentially, from defined benefits to something more like 401k, plus some SS. I got in on the old system, Civil Service Retirement System/CSRS. But the feds still pick up their share of my health care insurance that I had pre-retirement, which is cool. Good policies too, no pre-existing bullshit.

I put in a long stretch in wildland fire, and the FF/LEO system made me eligible at 50.

[Mustonen]

Thanks, but I'm aware of the relationship. It's just a bit precious to suggest banks cannot afford to pay savers and keep branches open because of low interest rates while simultaneously generating hundreds of billions in revenue and paying out hundreds of millions to c-suites.

Well, I guess? There is no reward for overpaying for deposits, unfortunately, and you won’t stick around for long if you do. You’re pinched between (1) declining or negative ROA which erodes your capital (due to aforementioned decline in NIM) and (2) influx of deposits because you’re overpaying which exacerbates your NIM and ROA issues and blows out your capital ratio.

That shit spirals quick and is dammed hard to correct. The regulators literally will not allow you to do it to any meaningful degree and maintain federal deposit insurance. Revenue and exec salaries (which are a drop in the revenue barrel) notwithstanding.

I get your bitch, just not sure it’s directed very well.

[Dantheman]

I will say though, I do plan on being retired for about as long as I worked full time. That is pretty bonkers. 50 years ago people were mostly lucky to be retired for 15-20 years before they died. My parents retired at 60. Given family histories and current health they will probably live well into their 90s if not longer.

Yeah, my Dad paid into a state retirement plan for 25 years and might collect for over 40 years. His dad died at 96, mom is still alive at 98 and he takes way better care of himself than either of them did/do--he could easily live to over 100. That's just not remotely sustainable.

If David Sinclair is right people in their 30s today could be dying at a median age well above 100 and the entire concept of retirement needs to be totally rethought. I could definitely see working part time in some capacity. Though, as Benny pointed out part-time jobs that aren't awful and pay more than minimum wage aren't plentiful.

[Danno]

You guys. My story is that things have been good for me, but maybe impossible any more. I got in on a now-eliminated federal firefighter/law enforcement retirement system and hung up my boots in my early 50s with 65% of my high three years average, and continued employer contributions to health insurance.

But my main point is that I haven’t needed a job to stay content, but that requires, interestingly, a certain amount of discipline and effort.

/gloating

Not entirely impossible, except change early 50s to 65. 65 is the current full retirement age for my pension plan. I'll actually get about the same 65% at that age, glad to know that's workable (I'll also have a little SS and my wife should have the full amount).

[XXX-er]

For the IBM DB pension anyone who made it to 30 yrs of service was golden and got the full retirement package, so it was possible to get a full noncontributory DB retirement package with benifits at 48-49 assuming you finished highschool and you can't do that anymore

[Mazderati]

Well, I guess? There is no reward for overpaying for deposits, unfortunately, and you won’t stick around for long if you do. You’re pinched between (1) declining or negative ROA which erodes your capital (due to aforementioned decline in NIM) and (2) influx of deposits because you’re overpaying which exacerbates your NIM and ROA issues and blows out your capital ratio.

That shit spirals quick and is dammed hard to correct. The regulators literally will not allow you to do it to any meaningful degree and maintain federal deposit insurance. Revenue and exec salaries (which are a drop in the revenue barrel) notwithstanding.

I get your bitch, just not sure it’s directed very well.

Some of the points you put forward are debatable but in the interest of keeping this thread loosely focused on retirement would you like to start a banking apologism thread? It could be titled "Banks: Just Doing the Best They Can".

[Mustonen]

Some of the points you put forward are debatable but in the interest of keeping this thread loosely focused on retirement would you like to start a banking apologism thread? It could be titled "Banks: Just Doing the Best They Can".

Yeah, no, though I’ll allow that there is a lot of nuance that can be the fodder for spirited debate. The point of driving the target rate to zero is to free up supply and promote liquidity, which == low rates. Banks are gonna fund through NIM and through fees. One is more regressive than the other.

The idea that banks would, should, or could operate at a loss or even at a narrower margin to reward savers in spite of rate market conditions is.... precious. There’s a glut of liquidity out there and nobody wants it or can afford to pay for it. Take it up with the fed.

[MiddleOfNight]

I'll have maybe 25 years of service credit in PERA by then

Does PERA have a medical component for <65 with their defined benefit?
I have about 4 yr credit with them (adjunct) and thought about trying to reach a 10y tier or something.

[Danno]

Does PERA have a medical component for <65 with their defined benefit?
I have about 4 yr credit with them (adjunct) and thought about trying to reach a 10y tier or something.

I'm not sure, they do have something called "PERAcare", but I know nothing about it. Because I won't be eligible to draw my full retirement amount and won't be able to retire otherwise until 65, I'll have Medicare, which makes it less important.

[MiddleOfNight]

thanks. interesting. the 20y benefit subsidy is about 200/month, but no 'tiers' it's based on years of service. plans ranging 2200-1500 (high deductible). doesn't solve the problem, but may help if I went that way someday.