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Thread: Binding not centered. How much off is okay?

  1. #1
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    Binding not centered. How much off is okay?

    Hi! I just got a pair of Dynafit Radical STs mounted on a pair of new skis. The bindings are 0.5-1 mm off to the left on both skis (it's clearly visible). Will this affect performance and function? How large a margin of error is normal when mounting bindings?

  2. #2
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    Using the paper templates from the Tech Talk thread here and mounting them myself, I usually get 0.3mm accuracy.

    Having never mounted skis intentionally off to the left or right to see if they skied differently, I couldn't say.

    But let's look at it this way. In a ~100mm waist ski you've got 0.5% - 1.0% accuracy. Assuming all your weight of 80kg is going into your inside edge when turning and the inside edges are different by 2mm cantilever, and your foot is ~100mm wide, that's a 2% difference in force left to right to turn at the same angulation, or 1.6kgf foot to foot difference.
    Last edited by coreshot-tourettes; 11-28-2011 at 12:21 PM.

  3. #3
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    .5 mm are you kinding me ?

  4. #4
    Hugh Conway Guest
    sweet fucking jesus to people tour indoors now?

  5. #5
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    Your skis and bindings are screwed, send them to me for proper disposal.
    watch out for snakes

  6. #6
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    Since the mounting jig centers off your skis edges not your topseets, the variance that you think you see on the topsheet might actually be a function of sidewall planing. If the sidewalls weren't planed exactly symetrically, this might happen.

    I have seen this before in mass-produced skis of all price ranges/qualities.
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes View Post
    Using the paper templates from the Tech Talk thread here and mounting them myself, I usually get 0.3mm accuracy.
    How do you measure down to such accuracy? Laser?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
    Since the mounting jig centers off your skis edges not your topseets, the variance that you think you see on the topsheet might actually be a function of sidewall planing. If the sidewalls weren't planed exactly symetrically, this might happen.
    That could be the case. It's really hard to tell without the proper tools. But it's clearly off at the topsheet. They seem to be equally off at both skis, so at least it's consistent.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumlin View Post
    That could be the case. It's really hard to tell without the proper tools. But it's clearly off at the topsheet. They seem to be equally off at both skis, so at least it's consistent.
    You just might find that sidehilling feels better to one side or the other. : )
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  10. #10
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumlin View Post
    That could be the case. It's really hard to tell without the proper tools. But it's clearly off at the topsheet. They seem to be equally off at both skis, so at least it's consistent.
    So why'd you post this stupid fucking thread if it's really hard to tell? DIAGF

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    So why'd you post this stupid fucking thread if it's really hard to tell? DIAGF
    In the world of mounting bindings we have a saying... "One millimeter = One mile." Or a half a mile in his case...
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  12. #12
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    A couple of photos.

    Left side:
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    Right side:
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  13. #13
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    FWIW, a tri or double square will give you a more accurate measurement from your edges to points on the top sheet or sides of bindings than eyeballing a tape measure.

    Other variables at play over time are how your edge thicknesses change after tuning. It is very possible to end up with different thicknesses that will in turn change the relative dimension between the edges and the binding hole locations.

    The edges are where the rubber meets the road, not the top sheets or sidewalls.

    A mm or less in soft snow on fat skis and AT bindings = a livable 1st world problem. On high performance race skis, boots, bindings ice injected snow possibly a real concern for top rated racers.
    Best regards, Terry
    (Direct Contact is best vs PMs)

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  14. #14
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumlin View Post
    A couple of photos.

    Left side:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Right side:
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    this is fucking retarded. seriously.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    sweet fucking jesus to people tour indoors now?
    It's the next big thing.

    Touring Gyms.....= $$$$$
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  16. #16
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    It's obvious from your photos that the core isn't centered over your edges. Feel with both sides with your fingertips/fingenails, you'll feel what I'm talking about.
    It's the nature of the beast with mass-produced cap construction. Not a bad mount.
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  17. #17
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    uhm...just ski'em. If you are asking I can guarantee you won't tell the difference even if it was a bad mount.

  18. #18
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    Okay, here are two more pictures, using a vernier caliper. The first photo shows that the screw on the left side of the ski is at the 25 mm mark from the edge. The second photo shows that the screw on the other side is at the 27 mm mark. So a 2 mm difference. Is that enough to prove an off center mount? Or am I missing something here?

    Left side:
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    Right side:
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  19. #19
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    If the heel pins line up correctly with your boot the mount is perfectly fine. The 1mm difference you see (not 2mm, if you aspire to some basic math) is probably smaller than the tolerated error on your chinese skis.

  20. #20
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    Take them out and ski on them. If you used to be able to ski and can't any longer, you should have mounted them yourself . . .

  21. #21
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    Apparently the pins and the boots don't line up perfectly. Photos attached. Is this still within acceptable tolerances?

    Ski 1, left boot
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    Ski 1, right boot
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    Ski 2, left boot
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    Ski 2, right boot
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumlin View Post
    Is this still within acceptable tolerances?
    Not to me. This combination is probably workable (Ski 1, left boot/Ski 2, right boot) but you can probably tweak it by loosening the toe screws and carefully re-tightening one by one (http://www.wildsnow.com/articles/dyn...nt_2001_1.html). See step # 12. You don't have the forward center screw, so start with one of the forward corner screws instead.

  23. #23
    Hugh Conway Guest
    [QUOTE=Drumlin;3452145]Apparently the pins and the boots don't line up perfectly. Photos attached. Is this still within acceptable tolerances?

    Mark Ski 1 "left" and Ski 2 "right" and go skiing

    Then enroll in a community college course on measurement.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Not to me. This combination is probably workable (Ski 1, left boot/Ski 2, right boot) but you can probably tweak it by loosening the toe screws and carefully re-tightening one by one (http://www.wildsnow.com/articles/dyn...nt_2001_1.html). See step # 12. You don't have the forward center screw, so start with one of the forward corner screws instead.
    You are assuming that the boot fittings are mounted straight and similar, no?

  24. #24
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    If there is a 2mm difference between the two sides, this equates to 1mm off from the center line assuming you are perfect in your measuring. Measuring the widest part of the "1" on my screen is about 1mm wide. I'd be surprised if most binding mounts are not off by at least 1mm from perfect center at some point.

    Other variables that could well exceed 2mm:
    -how and where you measured
    -wear and tear on gear, including boots to binding interface
    -flex of ski, boot & binding
    -natural anatomical variations surely exceed sweating a couple millimeters in a recreational sport
    -snow conditions
    -etc

    I'd let it go and just have fun on your sweet rig. It certainly isn't worth a remount.

    Will you be micro managing all of your tolerances before heading out the door or will you be able to simply go enjoy yourself?
    Last edited by Alpinord; 11-30-2011 at 12:51 PM.
    Best regards, Terry
    (Direct Contact is best vs PMs)

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  25. #25
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    What Greg said. The 1mm on its own is a non issue. Heel pins not lining up is not ok. Follow the wild snow directions and you should be ok.

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