beacon tech...ortovox patroller vs. tracker 2 vs. ????

[looseofforangejuice]

i won a tracker 2 at a one for the road screening (thanks TGR) and need to decide if my broke ass can afford to keep it.

currently i use an ortovox patroller (the recently discontinued analog/digital hybrid) for my beacon. it has worked well in my avy classes and beacon practice sessions. at this point i'm used to the lack of directional indication until the secondary search phase, and the finicky directional indicators haven't proved too difficult to handle (of course, real avy scenarios are a bit different than practice). i purchased this after ortovox updated the hardware on the 3rd antenna to reduce spiking.

obviously the tracker 2 is a better beacon, no doubt about that. and the maxim of "the best beacon is the one you (and your skiing partners) know how to use" is certainly taken to heart.

but with the lack of major multiple burial functionality on the tracker 2, i'm wondering if i might be better served with selling the tracker 2 and picking up a DPS or something with a masking feature when i'm a bit more flush? i'm skiing on the east coast this season so in reality the avalanche risk i'll be experiencing will be more limited, but present nonetheless (and i'll be out west for a time).

thoughts, TGR?

(also, if i keep the tracker 2, i will repay the karma by hooking a buddy up with my old beacon, since i know it works).

[hop]

If you're the last man standing during a multiple burial, the likelihood of someone dying seems pretty high. What are you going to do, run around and mark all the buried people and dig them up once you find them all however many minutes later, or dig up the 1st person you come to then move on to the next?

I hope I never have to answer that question in real life, but from the safety of my house my thoughts are probably "dig up the first person I come to".

I have a Tracker 2 and I'm happy with it. Never used it outside of practice.

Edit: By "dig up" I mean "clear airway".

[1000-oaks]

When I was practicing with an S1 and a Tracker, the S1 seemed to pick up the Tracker about 5m-10m earlier than the Tracker picked up the S1. Not sure if that means the S1 is more sensitive or if the Tracker has more transmitting power, but it was a noticeable edge. Both worked great, but I did prefer the S1 to the Tracker (though the S1 flip-phone design seems more fragile), and have never used a beacon for anything but practice.

[Shorty_J]

...my thoughts are probably "dig up the first person I come to".

This is right. I really feel like one of the best features in a beacon would be one that can "mark" a location to ignore that signal going forward for the search for subsequent victims. Not sure if either of the beacons you mention do that.

[hop]

This is right. I really feel like one of the best features in a beacon would be one that can "mark" a location to ignore that signal going forward for the search for subsequent victims. Not sure if either of the beacons you mention do that.

It's been a while since my last avy course but I was taught to turn the victim's beacon off of transmit so others/you don't get confused once you move on. Of course this was before any digital fancypants beacons so things may have changed.

[randosteve]

aren't the ortovox patroller and bca tracker 2 very similar beacons?

i really don't see many differences between them, besides that the patroller has been around a few years longer and probably has an increased range over the tracker 2. yeah, the tracker 2 has more lights, but left is left, you know?

if it were me, i'd sell the tracker 2 (since you'd probably get more money for it cuz it's new) and put the money towards a signal separating/flagging beacon like an S1+, Pulse, or DSP. keep the patroller and save it for friends or as a lightweight, no harness beacon for when the hazard is low.

[Jonathan S.]

When I was practicing with an S1 and a Tracker, the S1 seemed to pick up the Tracker about 5m-10m earlier than the Tracker picked up the S1. Not sure if that means the S1 is more sensitive or if the Tracker has more transmitting power, but it was a noticeable edge.

Among all the other things going on here, unless you had the Tracker's housing aligned at a 45-degree angle to the searcher (and knew which 45-degree axis has the transmitting antenna), then you were transmitting in a coupling different than when you used the S1 as a transmitter.

[Scottish_Skier]

Upgraded to a BCA tracker2 this winter (from an old Ortovox X1).

The BCA tracker 2's ability to resolve spikes (using a 3rd antenna) is what convinced me it was the beacon to go for. Good explanation about spikes from http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/Spikes.asp. Used a demo BCA tracker2 beacon in a transceiver park last winter - and the addition of 3rd antenna really does make a massive difference to speed of search.

Mamut Pulse, Pieps DSP or Ortovox S1 / 3+ seem to be the only other triple antenna beacons that are in the same league. All of them worth considering. S1 and Pieps may be better for the dreaded multiple burial scenarios however the interface is more complex (whatever beacon your using multiple victims really is the worst case, and statistics say someone is probably going to die...)

[Scottish_Skier]

When I was practicing with an S1 and a Tracker, the S1 seemed to pick up the Tracker about 5m-10m earlier than the Tracker picked up the S1.

Yip - S1 does have longer range... http://beaconreviews.com/transceiver...estResults.asp

However above link also explains why range isn't everything. The beacon with longest range are old single antenna models. In very simple terms searching with multiple antennas (as found on digital beacons) divides the RF power, reducing the overall range, but increasing directional accuracy.

[looseofforangejuice]

This is right. I really feel like one of the best features in a beacon would be one that can "mark" a location to ignore that signal going forward for the search for subsequent victims. Not sure if either of the beacons you mention do that.

right, that's the kind of functionality i'm talking about. the DSP, Pulse, and S1+ all (I believe) have a masking/separating function that allows you to suppress a beacon signal, so once you find someone you can go to the next signal with minimal interference. in practice, whether it works 100% is another question.

dig up the 1st person you come to then move on to the next?
Edit: By "dig up" I mean "clear airway".

It's been a while since my last avy course but I was taught to turn the victim's beacon off of transmit so others/you don't get confused once you move on.

yeah that would be ideal but as your edit points out in some instances (assuming the victim is still breathing) you might only clear their airway, rather than dig them up fully...ripping off their layers to get at their beacon to turn it off would be time consuming, and difficult if you only cleared the airway.

this is helpful folks and I appreciate the insights. if anyone has any other thoughts, please weigh in.

[hop]

Here's a recent beacon review.

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Avalanche-Beacon-Reviews

[Scottish_Skier]

The problem with multiple burials is 2 beacons transmitting pulses on exactly the same 457kHz freq. It is inevitable that at some location(s) the phase of the pulses will overlap and mask each other out.

The 'mark/separate signal functions' as found on the S1, Pieps DSP and Mammut is certainly a nice feature - but my understanding is that none of them are 100% perfect or idiot proof for reasons described above. The BCA Tracker2 tells you there are multiple burials and also allows you to narrow the angle of search so beacons can be isolated manually - it just approaches the problem a little differently to the other models. At end of the day multiple burial scenarios require skill and practice what ever the beacon.

The most important thing is that the Ortovox S1 / 3+, Pieps DSP, Mammut Pulse or Tracker2 ( all 3 antenna models) have an ability to resolve spikes better than the older 2 antenna models. This is what convinced me to upgrade. Good arguments could be made for all 5 models - and they are all good beacons.

[Fenris]

The problem with multiple burials is 2 beacons transmitting pulses on exactly the same 457kHz freq. It is inevitable that at some location(s) the phase of the pulses will overlap and mask each other out.

The more important part of the signal for multi-burial masking is the once per second pulse. The beacon transmits at 457kHz for .1 second and then is off for .9 seconds before transmitting again. All the frequencies can vary, and the range of frequencies that different digital beacons will process is different (a ton of old F1s and similar beacons are too far off range for newer digital beacons to sense). This is both a good and a bad thing.

In the best case of the worst case, all the buried beacons would be perfectly tuned on 457kHz and transmitting for .1 seconds per second and not overlapping. The worst case is the same thing, but all the buried beacons transmitting at the exact same time.

The in between case is where you have a beacon transmitting at different rates (but all at 457kHz). Then there would be moments where two beacons would be transmitting at the same time and overlapping, but they would quickly drift back away from each other and be individually discernible again.

I believe that Pieps smart antenna stuff is working towards an automatic way of guaranteeing the best case but has some funky results at times.

The BCA Tracker2 tells you there are multiple burials and also allows you to narrow the angle of search so beacons can be isolated manually - it just approaches the problem a little differently to the other models.

I'm really interested in playing with this style of search. Sounds a bit more like a Recco search

I don't know if it still applies to the new Tracker, but the best review that I have ever heard about a beacon:

This is the beacon that I would give my buddy so that he can find my ass if I'm the the one buried.

[DHogg]

Sounds like you want an Ortovox 3+. Still very simple, but has marking abilities.

[1000-oaks]

Among all the other things going on here, unless you had the Tracker's housing aligned at a 45-degree angle to the searcher (and knew which 45-degree axis has the transmitting antenna), then you were transmitting in a coupling different than when you used the S1 as a transmitter.

By initially paying attention to the flux lines as I approached each beacon, I figured I had a pretty good handle on the antenna axis in each, and positioned the beacons on the ground with the antennas pointed the same direction so I could compare apples to apples. Far from perfect and not really a test, but antenna axis was considered when playing around with them.

Of course you couldn't really do this with an S1+, because the beacon could choose to use any of the three antennas to transmit.

[looseofforangejuice]

thanks to scottish_skier and others for the insights. thankfully it's a good position to be in. further chatter welcome.

[1000-oaks]

the DSP, Pulse, and S1+ all (I believe) have a masking/separating function that allows you to suppress a beacon signal

The S1 also does this. The manual does warn that as the pulse timing of masked beacons drifts over time, masked beacons can become "unmasked". This could happen to any beacon with masking capability. There's not really any way to avoid it unless GPS positioning is used instead of identifying beacons by their pulse timing. Knowing this can happen would cut down on a lot of confusion if/when it does.

As I understand it the main improvement of the S1+ is that is takes a reading off the internal inclinometer and then chooses the transmitting antenna that will offer the greatest range for receiving beacons.

[Scottish_Skier]

There's not really any way to avoid it unless GPS positioning is used instead of identifying beacons by their pulse timing. Knowing this can happen would cut down on a lot of confusion if/when it does.

GPS frequency radio waves don't propagate well in snow.
Plus non military specification GPS isn't accurate or reliable enough (only 2m+, often worse)

A better multi-burial solution might be for each beacon to have an ability to transmit a unique pulse coded identifier on the existing 457kHz wave band. However this would require a change to the existing well adopted standard. Plus you would need to program everyone in your groups beacon with a unique code before each ski tour.

</M.Eng Electronics geek>

[Shorty_J]

yeah that would be ideal but as your edit points out in some instances (assuming the victim is still breathing) you might only clear their airway, rather than dig them up fully...ripping off their layers to get at their beacon to turn it off would be time consuming, and difficult if you only cleared the airway.

This is exactly why I want that function... I had this exact problem last year.

[looseofforangejuice]

This is exactly why I want that function... I had this exact problem last year.

shit...i guess this is why beacon technology has been advancing so much...because fucked up shit happens in the BC. i hope it wasn't as bad as it potentially could have been. vibes