Whoa, whoa, shocker in Happy Valley

[PassTheDutchie]

Or sooner...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sp...rnos-exit.html

[XXX-er]

Really? Would you convict in such a case?

As a hypothetical juror in such a hypothetical case, if it was clear the person who did the beating had made every possible effort to stop the molester through conventional means such as informing the police, and was only acting in such a way because there was no other alternative besides just letting it continue, I couldnt live with myself convicting them.

Its pretty irrelevant as there has never been such a case, and if someone had gone to the police in this case I'm sure they would have done something,but im curious.

If the person being abused did the beating he would probably get away with beating the abuser on the basis of self defense but I am not so sure about anyone else

in any case how the judge would instruct the jury might play into thing?

[Lonnie]

One wonders if this has allowed JP to keep his job for as long as he did under difficult circumstances, "If you fire me or force me out I'll go to the Cop with this Sandusky thing..."

[iceman]

One wonders if this has allowed JP to keep his job for as long as he did under difficult circumstances, "If you fire me or force me out I'll go to the Cop with this Sandusky thing..."

Can't see that one, guy has been like a god and hell it's still a good program until this week at least. I mean there's been some deep downs in recent years but shit.

[Lonnie]

^^ I was talking more about the issues related to his age. Word was they wanted him out in 2004, and he kicked the AD out of his house when they went to discuss it with him....

[XXX-er]

they all had a reason to keep the lid on this and it all boils down to fame power ... money

[leroy jenkins]

If the person being abused did the beating he would probably get away with beating the abuser on the basis of self defense but I am not so sure about anyone else

in any case how the judge would instruct the jury might play into thing?

American jurors have a legal and moral right to decide a verdict in a way that follows their conscience and sense of morality even if it goes contrary to the letter of the law or a judge's instructions. This is jury nullification.

I wouldnt want to bet my life on it though, knowing how sheepleesque most people are these days.

[ass-to-mouth]

I really hope Penn State goes back to the grey facemasks. The blue ones never looked right.

[Lonnie]

I guess I should add that I think Paterno did the right thing legally, but once it was clear that the AD wasn't going to blow the whistle on this, he shoulda gone to the cops. But then there is this...

they all had a reason to keep the lid on this and it all boils down to fame power ... money

[HansJob]

No exit of glory for Joe. Not a fan of the Lions, and it's unfortunate that he will be remembered for this. OTOH I hope that his ouster will provide impetus for others to not turn a blind eye to these types of crimes. I don't feel sorry for him at all. As a parent he should have known better, and beat Sandusky with his fucking cane. I also fault the two witnesses for not kicking the pervert's ass on the spot. They too have a shit ton of guilt to bare.

[ICEHOCEY77]

Got to feel bad for the players, I think they're having their senior day on saturday....

[ICEHOCEY77]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=720...goryid=2564308

Matt Millen loses it at about the 4:30 mark.

[XXX-er]

check the $$$$ figures in the NYT link, its all about power and money, the $ the school makes, the $ a football player is gona make, the $ everybody was making off of a game ...albeit the great american game or is that baseball ?

I hear that so much $$$ goes to the mens programs at uni's that they will try to thro money to ANY womens program so the disparity doesnt look so bad, I met a girl who had ski raced as a teen thot she sucked was told NO yer breathing ... you can get scholarship

[ass-to-mouth]

I hear that so much $$$ goes to the mens programs at uni's that they will try to thro money to ANY womens program so the disparity doesnt look so bad, I met a girl who had ski raced as a teen thot she sucked was told NO yer breathing ... you can get scholarship

It's called Title IX. Schools that receive federal funding are required by law to have an equal number of mens & womens athletic scholarships.

[My Pet Powder Goat]

I hear that so much $$$ goes to the mens programs at uni's that they will try to thro money to ANY womens program so the disparity doesnt look so bad, I met a girl who had ski raced as a teen thot she sucked was told NO yer breathing ... you can get scholarship

That's probably has more to do with title 9. they have to, by law, allow the same amount of women's sports as mens.

[cinnepa]

Posted A minute ago

and that grad student, ex-player, ex-team captain was 28 when he caught both of them in the shower and did NOTHING. oh yeah, he called his dad who told him to leave the area. was he afraid of a 58 year old?? amazes me he did not help the 10 year old kid on the spot - he turnd his head and left the building while a crime was going on. disturbing.
and i wonder if joepa would of did the same thing (only go to the AD) if that kid getting abused was his nephew/grandson.
the whole place is in the shit, they thought they were so much better than the miami's/fsu/usc's of the world.....and here they wish they were only that bad now; sanction-wise.

[rmackd]

That's probably has more to do with title 9. they have to, by law, allow the same amount of women's sports as mens.

Just to be a little more accurate, the % of funding for men's and women's sports has to be equal to the % of men/women in the overall student population. Most schools have about 60% women, so they have to allocate even more money to women's sports.

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Just to be a little more accurate, the % of funding for men's and women's sports has to be equal to the % of men/women in the overall student population. Most schools have about 60% women, so they have to allocate even more money to women's sports.

Are only state colleges affected? I cant imagine a private college would have to follow those rules.
I'm all for equality and watching cute girls running up and down the soccer pitch. but the initiative is flawed. Not that many girls want to play sports and they have had to cut some great mens programs that have a lot of history and success.

but back on topic; it's amazing and scary the lengths these pederass will go to molest children...a non-profit, camp for at risk kids? how fucked up do you have to be to act like that?

I've almost beaten the shit out of a parent for hitting their children at walmart. I see what that grad student saw in that shower shit is going down

[Art Shirk]

American jurors have a legal and moral right to decide a verdict in a way that follows their conscience and sense of morality even if it goes contrary to the letter of the law or a judge's instructions. This is jury nullification.

This isn't true, that is if jury instructions in criminal trials are anything like they are in civil. Maybe a law mag who has tried both a criminal and civil in front of jury can chime in.

[leroy jenkins]

This isn't true, that is if jury instructions in criminal trials are anything like they are in civil. Maybe a law mag who has tried both a criminal and civil in front of jury can chime in.

Just spent a few minutes reading on wikipedia, for criminal trials the jury has the right to nullify, but neither the defense prosecution or the judge has the right to explain this right to them.



ANd yes, pet powder goat, I cannot beleive two people (dont forget about the janitor) were able to turn their back on that kind of crime happening right in front of them and do nothign to stop it. Now not only does that boy(s) have the trauma of enduring that, they have the added trauma of knowing that others witnessed it and just did not care enough to stop it. I think it wouldnt be THAT hard to come to terms with the fact that there are horrible peopel in this world, but to know that the average person just doesnt give a shit enough to help you either would be very hard to deal with. If knew that was going on and couldnt stop it any other way I would be tempted to use violence, but if I actually saw it taking place in front of me I am positive my conscience would not allow me to walk away and even as a very peaceful person I would feel perfectly ok with myself for beating the fuck out of that old man.

[rmackd]

Are only state colleges affected? I cant imagine a private college would have to follow those rules.
I'm all for equality and watching cute girls running up and down the soccer pitch. but the initiative is flawed. Not that many girls want to play sports and they have had to cut some great mens programs that have a lot of history and success.

Yes because private schools also participate in government aid programs and receive federal funding in some cases.

Also, here is a list of the Board of Directors of Sandusky's charity (not implicating any of these folks, just found it amazing):

Board of Directors: Honorary Board

John R. Cappelletti - Retired PSU & NFL Football Player, Heisman Trophy Winner

R. R. M. Carpenter, III - Former Owner, Philadelphia Phillies

James E. Ford - Retired Vice President, Kmart

William A. Gettig - President, Gettig Technologies, Inc.

Jack Ham - Retired NFL Player, Pittsburgh Steelers, Hall of Fame

Franco Harris - Retired NFL Player, Pittsburgh Steelers, Hall of Fame

Lou Holtz - Retired Football Coach, Sportscaster, and Motivational Speaker

Dr. Bryce Jordan - Retired, Penn State University President

Willi Maier - President, Omni Plastics, Inc.

Matt Millen - ESPN Football Analyst

Arnold D. Palmer - President, Arnold Palmer Enterprises

Joseph V. Paterno - Head Football Coach, Penn State University

Andy Reid - Head Football Coach, Philadelphia Eagles

Dr. John Reidell - General Surgeon, Past Second Mile Board President

Cal Ripken, Jr. - Former ML Baseball Shortstop, President & CEO of Ripken Baseball, Inc.

Dominic Toscani - Owner & President, Paris Business Forms

Richard Vermeil - Retired NFL Head Coach, (Kansas City Chiefs, St. Louis Rams, Philadelphia Eagles)

Mark Wahlberg - Actor, Rapper, and Film & TV Producer

Verne Willaman - Retired Chairman and President, Ortho Pharmaceutical Corp.

Quentin Wood - Retired Chairman and CEO, Quaker State Oil Refining Corp.

Richard A. Zimmerman - Retired Chairman of the Board, Hershey Foods


I cannot imagine any of these folks are too happy that they are associated with this scumbag.

[Boomer28]

Supposedly "hundreds" of students outside Joe Pa's house.....in SUPPORT of him!

Un-fucking real. It's like a personality cult out there. Who on earth could defend this? I don't care if he didn't see it in person, he had an obligation to follow it through and not just pass the ball and wash his hands of it. This is going to burn down everyone involved.

[Tippster]

Not sure JoePa did anything wrong - he found out about it and told his BOSS. If I were in a similar position (Hearsay, no proof) I would do the same and let them and Legal handle it as they saw appropriate.

The motherfucker in question worked for PSU, not solely for Paterno (as in, wasn't paid by him - sure Paterno was his boss.) That does NOT give Paterno the right to go above his bosses' heads and go directly to the cops about something he can't prove. What do you think would have happened had it turned out to be false? He followed the rules.

Had the old man seen it in person this would be a totally different thing. As it was his friend/coach just had to say "Bullshit - I'm being framed" and then what do you do? Imagine if someone you don't know accused one of your friends of Pedophilia and your friend denied it vehemently - would you still go directly to the cops? Stop piling on before thinking it through.

There's a reason why Millen choked up the way he did. This dude betrayed his trust.

[PB]

At the moment, it seems that Saint Paterno did the bare minimum required by law, however he had a moral obligation to ensure that there was no chance that it was continuing, to the best of his knowledge. it's been reported from several sources that both Saint P and McQueary were repeatedly in the presence of Sandusky, on campus/football facilities with individual boys of the same age. They both chose to ignore the obvious.

[Benny Profane]

Supposedly "hundreds" of students outside Joe Pa's house.....in SUPPORT of him!

Un-fucking real. It's like a personality cult out there. Who on earth could defend this? I don't care if he didn't see it in person, he had an obligation to follow it through and not just pass the ball and wash his hands of it. This is going to burn down everyone involved.

Dude, college sports fans are much like cult members, at a very young and impressionable age. It's actually the reason that many many kids go to Penn State, or Duke, or UofM, or you know, fill in the blank with a school with one, or two, or, it's rare but cool, three major sports teams. One of my ex nephews actually told me at a Thanksgiving dinner (he was 16 at the time) that his choice of college would depend on it's sports programs. I looked at him kind of blankly, knowing that he wasn't close to varsity in any sport, until he told me it was all about the, um, cheerleading? Spectating? Spending all weekend partying around the team? Something like that? He totally distracted me from the fresh cranberry sauce until it was gone. I was dumbfounded, until I learned that this is a sub culture in young America, and he wasn't the only one. I wonder sometimes where he is today.
These were the kids outside JoePa's house tonight.