Drywall & Paint Mags: New Paint keeps cracking.

[ski_adk]

So, 4 weeks ago, we decided to repaint our bedroom. The plan for the ceiling was to sand the stipple flat, texture it with drywall mud and paint. The walls were already primed, so all we did was texture. They look good, but we have not painted them yet and here's why. The ceiling paint has cracked twice now on us and we're looking at having to sand the thing now for a 3rd time.

The first time we encountered this problem, the guy at the paint store said we probably hit some old oil-based paint and that nothing we put on there bonded to it b/c the new layers were water-based. We followed their suggestion of removing the texture & paint that we had just applied (which also meant a second round of standing on a ladder for 12 hours of over-the-head sanding with an orbital sander), and then applying a primer that they said should act as a barrier between the old ceiling and the new texture.

So, we do that and then we re-texture, let it dry for 2 days and it looks great...no cracks, or anything. Then we reapply a layer of paint-and-primer-in-one paint, and after 2 days that still looks good. Then today, we go in there and the fucking shit is cracking again .

So, I admit I don't know fuck-all about this and I need help. Realistically, what are my best options here? Should I just say fuck it, gut the room and start off from square 1 in there, or is it really possible to repair/cover-up an ugly-assed old ceiling? Also, do you have any suggestions on how to more easily strip the cracked shit off of there if it is possible? I know I'm not that handy, but shit, repainting a bedroom shouldn't be this bad.

[Johnny P]

is the ceiling plaster or drywall?

[iamTRuTH]

Where are the cracks occurring? Everywhere or at the drywall seams? Pictures will help also.

[ski_adk]

I think it's a plaster ceiling and it's old...there was one spot I nicked with the edge of the sander and the damn thing had more color layers to it than a jawbreaker. There must be at least 5-6 (maybe more?) layers of paint already up there. The room came with this horrible stipple texture in there that makes it look like there are millions of 1/8" - 1/4" stalactites growing out of the ceiling. So, we took the orbital sander to it to knock it down and now we're here...

The cracks are happening all over the place, some in the middle of the room, others along the edges. For the most part, they're small, but the paint is obviously not adhering. The pics are below. Ignore the hard black lines...that's just my wife's way of marking the ceiling to better see what part needs more sanding.

[whyturn]

As long as it's dry you could put a new of drywall on the ceiling. But that's a bandaid. The real way is to put in new drywall. Bt for sure you need to use killz as a primer. Oil and water never mix but there are really no easy fixes. I will call my brother who is the man with this stuff if I can

[tuco]

First check to see if you have some sort of moisture problems from above. There are definetly delaminated layers of paint in there. Do yourself a favor and lay new d-wall right over that. Scrape what is loose. Glue(especially the ends) and screw the new d-wall into the ceiling joists. Then finish as normal. Then drink beer and worry about ceiling no longer.

[marcusling]

lead and oil-based paints, but looks more like way too many candles burned(wax).

[marcusling]

go to a real paint shop,with your pix, and they should have a fix. I would have to go to Nevada to buy the paint needed. California doesnt want me to use products that actually work.

[ski_adk]

What's weird is that the drywall compound we skim-coated on isn't cracking...just the new paint on-top of it. Now, it does pull the drywall compound off with it when you scrape it. Would that be more of a moisture problem or are all those old chemicals leeching through the primer (Aqualock+) and skim-coat?

[dakeli]

Your problem might be dust, I've had that same cracking problem when the paint sub did not dust the walls with a tack cloth before painting when there has been alot of sanding or MDF cutting done in the house. Try sealing a small area with "Killz" or something similar to see if the cracks migrate through.

[goldenboy]

If you flake some of the new drywall off, is it "chalky" behind the part you flaked off? How thick of a mud layer did you apply? How long was it taking to dry?

[Dose.]

Sorry this shit is happening to you. I know it can be super frustrating. Hope my advice can help. Here's the deal......Doesn't even matter what's causing it. The solution's are the same.

Before you read any further stop sanding overhead because ,as you know, that sucks and it is getting you nowhere, grab a beer relax and read on.

1. You can scrape it all off again and go to step 2 (but don't) That's what the paint store recommended and didn't work. They were on point but should have given you an oil/shellac based product.

2. Normal cracking is usually cured by Kilz or ZInsering that sucker (oil or shellac based only not latex) 1-2 coats then skim coat with mud and put a texture on it if you want. Prime with PVA drywall primer. 2 finish coats paint. Kilz or Bullseye(ShellacBased) suck to work with especially overhead. They smell and are really thin so tougher to work with. Do a tester area first so you don't waste your time if you decide on this route. Problem is.....the bonding problem is probably below the new mud.

2. Screw new sheetrock right over that lid(make sure to find the studs so you don't open another can of worms. You can get thinner rock if you don't want to put 1/2" on it. Tape the joints. Mud the joints and texture as needed. One coat PVA primer. 2 coats finish. This is what I would do (Easier than going to studs). Why waste any more time on that lid to fail by trying step 1 and 2.

3. Take it to studs.........If all else fails

Couple tips:
- You exposed something that doesn't want to play nice with the sanding, Don't kill yourself with that anymore.
- Dust and vac walls before painting....Helps bonding.
- Best bet is to stay away from the Primer/Paints. Go to a real paint store. Sherwin or Benjamin Moore are good products to go with. Always a good idea to use appropriate primer even if they say the paint "self Primes"

Here's and educated guess:
Obviously you have a bonding issue. Most finishes crack/crackle when the top coat is drying faster than the bottom coat espscially when there is a bonding issue. I know you said it isn't but from the pics it looks like the mud is cracking too. Just a guess but the primer never really bonded.....The mud dried slow enough not to crack. ....you put on the paint, it re-wet the mud, dried faster than the mud and made the bonding issue finally show. Paints shrink when they dry and when this paint did it took the mud and the bad bond with it. I know it sounds complex but I see shit like that sometimes when refinishing antiques as well. Crackle medium is designed like this. It most likely took a couple days because as it cured it got harder (Latex is flexible at first), shrunk a bit more and proceeded to piss you off.

- Test the walls with a small area first. If that cracks there could be a few reasons (Possible bad batch of mud that isn't really curing...unlikely but i have seen stranger things happen)

PM me or hit me here with any questions if you want.

Now take your wife to dinner for dealing with sanding overhead like that. That is not an easy task.

[Skidog]

Dose posted the first thing i thought of towards the end of his post..what it looks like to me is that either the mud hadnt completely dried before you painted it OR the mud got "re-wet" when you applied the primer and then finish coat. It just looks to me like something didnt cure enough before the next coat was put on.
Is this near a heating vent? How thick is the mud you're putting in that spot? Thicker than anywhere else you're not seeing the issue? If it was an issue with the layers of paint underneath I think you'd see it in many more places since the whole ceiling had that finish prior to this, not just "that spot".
Don't try to rush it. mud it again/texture, let it dry for a couple days...prime..let it dry for couple hours..then finish coat. 1 finish coat, let dry couple hours, then final finish coat. As ALWAYS prime the texture/mud with a Kilz/zinzer type product. I echo the oil based ones as i believe oil base primers create the best chance for the next layer to adhere and last.

Good luck please update with your results.

[BackCountryNC]

You must always prime after the mud dries.