Ankle Weight Training

[neufox47]

For skiing, and almost all athletic pursuits, I prefer doing a mixture of rear foot elevated split squats, front squats, single leg deadlifts, and hang cleans over traditional squats. I think the back squat is a highly overrated exercise. It's more of a lower back exercise than a leg exercise. According to my friends biomechanics professor, a huge reason that people new to back squats jump weight so fast is that the biggest initial hurdle is getting your nervous system / spine used to holding hundreds of lbs.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

getting your nervous system / spine used to holding hundreds of lbs.

Isn't that the point? That is exactly why squats are good. The entire point of resistance training is to train your muscular and nervous systems to move heavy loads. Why would you want to avoid making your back strong?

Many olympic weightlifters back squat ass-to-grass 6 days a week without any significant rate of injury. They do front squats and overhead squats as accessory exercises to focus stress on smaller parts of the system that are important for O-lifts. Why do they do back squats more often than the others? Better results.

The notion that back squats are unhealthy is a myth. If you squat properly, it can even be done without an ACL. Using a variety of accessory squats in lieu of back squats is like flossing and using mouth wash instead of brushing your teeth.

[roadgap]

Like many have said, you're waaaay overthinking this. If you want better training for ski touring, just hike faster, for longer. Hike fast enough that you feel like you might die. Do that a bunch and a moderate pace in the skin track will feel easy.

[Nic.A]

the routine is not for the development strength [that's why I dead lift at low rep and squat likewise]. Endurance, same as the above, but I bike to work 25 miles round trip every day, and I bike hard. But I think the above routine has improved my muscular stamina significantly. whether it be biking, in the skin track - long tours, yoyo, on the way up, and on the way down. and all other outdoor activities for that matter too.

I like the comparison of the workout to a all mountain ski...doesn't really excell in one area or the other. I guess I look at skiing and wonder when stregth, endurance, stamina, etc. are not all needed at the same time to some degree or another.

I am not a health expert, but I do what I find to be best suited for my needs. What does my routine accopmplish for me? I can skin and ski with the best of them, all day, no issues. I can run half marathons at weeks notice, I can do the things I want to, with out too much struggle. It might not be the best routine out there. It also keep me at 14% body fat

and @ I've seen BD [sorry, multiqoute was freezing my computer]. I only do the routine I think twice a week, and look to increase weight on a regular basis.

I also think its interesting how different everyone's training routine is. I don't care what people do, just stoked to see that people are out doing something to get in or stay in shape.

What about diets?

Why? What is this accomplishing for you? In my opinion these types of workouts are like an all mountain ski. They aren't really good at developing strength, endurance, muscular endurance, or VO2, but they are passable for all of them. The one benefit I see from them is that they are good at making people work hard who are normally lazy in the gym.

[neufox47]

Many olympic weightlifters back squat ass-to-grass 6 days a week without any significant rate of injury. They do front squats and overhead squats as accessory exercises to focus stress on smaller parts of the system that are important for O-lifts. Why do they do back squats more often than the others? Better results.

If you are training to be an Olympic weightlifter you should be absolutely be doing back squats, deadlifts, and power cleans 2-3 times a week. (6 days a week to back squat is insane unless some of those days are unweighted IMO) Because that is your sport. But power lifting is it's own sport. I think people incorrectly associate optimizing power lifting performance with optimizing performance at wrestling, football, etc. If your goal is to back squat 500lbs, you should be back squating and doing other exercises to supplement it. If your goal is to be run faster, ski better, jump higher, etc, I think you should do exercises that optimize those movements. Back squats can have a role in those movements, but only a role. My biggest issue is when people think back squats are be all end all of training. As performed by most of the population, they increase slow overall power. They will barely make you perform better unless they are just one component of a

I'm not saying that someone who lifts weights and does lots of power lifting will not improve. Power lifting certainly has a place in every athletes training routine. But there certainly is a point of diminishing and eventually negative results for most athletes (especially regarding speed) if power lifting is the staple of your training. I think that most athletes, and especially highschool athletes, train to be strong and slow with endurance rather than fast and explosive and able to quickly recover from exertion. The workout mentioned above (27 down to 3 reps with the same weight) is a great example of the former type of workout.

The action of getting your nervous system / spine used to a compression force of hundreds of lbs is different than the getting your nervous system / muscles used to lifting / moving heavy loads. From what a bio-mechanics grad student told me, heavy squats cause a panic response from your nervous system.

I agree that if an athlete squats properly they have a very low instance of injury until they begin using 2 - 3+ times body weight for an athlete with BF of <20. However, most people do not or are incapable given their current body (muscle lengths, flexibility, height, etc) squat properly. Atypical body types exacerbate the problem, especially tall people. Learning how to takes a great deal of time and discipline. I just don't think it is worth it, for the limited benefits over other exercises it offers most athletes.

People have written books on this, so obviously I didn't magically distill the whole argument into 4 paragraphs.

[Nic.A]

I just don't think it is worth it, for the limited benefits over other exercises it offers most athletes.

mabye I missed it, but you dont' think doing traditional squats at all, is worth it?

edit: unless they are able to squat with excellent form.

[roadgap]

For all the talk about weights, we have to remember that the guy wants to get fit for ski TOURING, not necessarily for pounding laps at the resort or dropping 50 footers.

Look at the guys who go fastest in the skin track - they're all skinny fuckers.

There are 2 things that are going to make you go fast on the uphill. Being light, and having a big cardio engine. The specific muscular strength stuff doesn't take long to come around at the start of the winter as long as you're getting out relatively regularly. Losing weight and developing that engine on the other hand can take a long time, depending on where you're starting from.

I personally think that if your main goal is backcountry skiing, spending hours in the weight room every week is a colossal waste of time. Riding the lifts, ok, more useful. But if you've got good technique, skiing soft snow in the backcountry isn't really going to take that much specific muscular strength. Better off spending your time hiking, or biking, or whatever.

[neufox47]

Yeah, sorry totally hijacked this thread by geeking out about exercise. Not saying the above workouts won't help, I'm just saying there is better uses of your time IMO. Anything is better than nothing unless you get injured.

NickA - when I asked what it was accomplishing for you I meant, what do you hope to get from doing this exercise. If your goal is to increase muscular endurance and build muscle, you are on the right track. It is certainly going to cause hypertrophy. Although the last two sets are probably pointless. If you want to get stronger, faster, or quicker, this probably is not helping much. I also didn't mean for it to come off as questioning whether you are in shape or not.

My basic premise is that we should ask ourselves how each exercise and our entire program is helping us achieve our goals and whether there is a better system out there. Additionally, what are the potential consequences of a lift. Having a number of friends and an ex GF who are PT's has probably made me too cautious. I am constantly hearing stories about ruptured disks, torn biceps, etc. and chronic injuries caused by people training really hard and not balancing their workouts.

[Chowda]

IMHO, weight training, ie squats, won't help with sore hip flexors. The soreness is likely fatigue and lack of flexability. Stretch often, take long runs and bike rides at an easy pace, and get out in the skin track as often as possible. The runs/rides should last over an hour, and you shouldn't feel totally ass kicked when you get home. You can mix in any kind of high intensity work that you'd like, but don't forgo the sustained effort long days in exchange.

If you want to target your hip flexors, get in a pool with short fins, like zoomers, and flutter kick on your back, arms over your head in a streamline, and NO kickboard. Vary the speed and length of the kick throughout the workout. You'll also be working your lower core and quads, and conditioning all of them to the repeated low resistance beating they take skinning. And I'm serious about the kickboard, if your back isn't arched enough to float, you will tighten up, and it will be counter productive.

You may now return to the regularly scheduled TGR, what you do is too pussy for my ego, thread.

[roadgap]

IMHO, weight training, ie squats, won't help with sore hip flexors. The soreness is likely fatigue and lack of flexability. Stretch often, take long runs and bike rides at an easy pace, and get out in the skin track as often as possible. The runs/rides should last over an hour, and you shouldn't feel totally ass kicked when you get home. You can mix in any kind of high intensity work that you'd like, but don't forgo the sustained effort long days in exchange.

If you want to target your hip flexors, get in a pool with short fins, like zoomers, and flutter kick on your back, arms over your head in a streamline, and NO kickboard. Vary the speed and length of the kick throughout the workout. You'll also be working your lower core and quads, and conditioning all of them to the repeated low resistance beating they take skinning. And I'm serious about the kickboard, if your back isn't arched enough to float, you will tighten up, and it will be counter productive.

You may now return to the regularly scheduled TGR, what you do is too pussy for my ego, thread.

Good advice. And if you really want to be a beast in the skin track, get out for one long bike ride a week in the off-season, try to get the duration up to (or above) 4hrs. No crazy efforts but steady.

I always assumed the sore hip flexors were something that every backcountry newb went through. I know I did. Just getting out in the skin track more fixed it for me. Nothing wrong with stretching tho.