How to fit an Alpine Touring boot?

[steventy]

Hi All,

Just got back from watching "One For the Road." Great film. The season is almost here. Time to buy some boots.

I'm trying to buy an Alpine Touring boot and unfortunately haven't been able to find a great bootfitter to help me in the store or a great online guide.

When buying downhill Alpine (ISO DIN Mount) boots, I got some good tips about how my toes should fit.
It was something like:
- When standing up my toes should jam the front of the boot.
- When in a neutral skiing position, my toes should just barely brush the front of the boot or be a little bit free.
- When leaning into the boot, I should have a bit of room for my toes.

My gut tells me that I shouldn't follow the same advice when sizing an AT boot. I don't yet know enough about the motion involved when skinning, but it seems like I will often be in a posture that is more akin to standing. There will also be times when I need to take the skis off and hike (or just walk around camp.)

I understand that all boots will pack out but if my toes are firmly jamming the front of the boot when I stand, it seems unlikely that they will pack out enough to be comfortable in that position.

In the backcountry, I am more interested in covering distance than doing laps. That said, I will also use this boot at the resort. I am still a novice skier but want this boot to last a few years.

Any rules of thumb for sizing an AT boot? Should I get them a little looser than a downhill boot?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[bfree]

Well at least you found tech talk. Now go find a bootfitter.

[time2clmb]

Not sure that "jamming the front of the boot" is a good descriptor. I fit mine the same as my downhill boots...performance fit as I don't like any slop at all. Definatley go to a bootfitter as opposed to a sales person. You are pretty new (based on what you have said on CT) and if you end up in the back seat much which you probably will while learning then that jamming in the front of boot is going to fucking suck big time. Maybe a more forgiving fit would do you good?? Perhaps some one here can point you to a good bootfitter around Vancouver??

Way better place to ask compared to CT btw...good thing you found the right place to post it lol.

[steventy]

Not sure that "jamming the front of the boot" is a good descriptor. I fit mine the same as my downhill boots...performance fit as I don't like any slop at all. Definatley go to a bootfitter as opposed to a sales person. You are pretty new (based on what you have said on CT) and if you end up in the back seat much which you probably will while learning then that jamming in the front of boot is going to fucking suck big time. Maybe a more forgiving fit would do you good?? Perhaps some one here can point you to a good bootfitter around Vancouver??

Way better place to ask compared to CT btw...good thing you found the right place to post it lol.

Thanks T2C. There are a number of excellent bootfitters in Vancouver (as far as I can tell,) including the guys at The Destination and Swiss Sports Haus. The challenge is that those places don't sell AT boots.

I'm realistically going to buy AT boots from MEC since the return policy is so amazing and they are almost the only shop in town to sell it. (On the other hand, the return policy from MEC is so good that is makes it hard for almost any private retailer to compete so MEC practically has a monopoly and that's why I'm in this situation in the first place...)

Perhaps I will see if any of the private shops have a bootfitter with extensive AT experience and knowledge of the current lineup of AT boots that I can pay. Then I can bring one or more boots to them for their opinion.

BTW: The boot I am looking at is the Dynafit ZZeus. The alpine boots were quickly getting into the $500-$700 range on their own. This boot can do it all and I know that if I have an AT capable boot then I'll rent back country skis a lot earlier.

[gregL]

Yeah, that jamming the front of the boot is interesting - do they mean if you stand straight with knees locked in the boot and the buckles undone, the back of the boot should push your foot forward until that happens?

Actually, you should start by taking the liners out (try your longest foot first, usually the same side as your dominant hand). You're worried about the hard plastic, and the liners will conform a lot once they are baked. Discomfort with unbaked liners in doesn't necessarily mean much; plastic hitting your foot with liners out does. Move your foot forward until your toe touches the front of the boot, but just touching without much pressure. Then look at the distance between your heel and the heel pocket of the boot (do this with very thin socks or no socks). People traditionally describe this in terms of "fingers" (ie. a "one finger fit") but millimeters is probably better. I usually like a "half" to "one finger" fit in alpine boots, so somewhere in the 7 to 15mm range with my forefinger.

I usually like to go a little longer in a touring boot (1+ fingers, or around 20mm), but it depends on the boot and you. If you find you can skin comfortably with the lower buckles buckled tight, so there's no fore-aft movement of your foot, then you could go shorter. Most people tend to skin with the lower buckles loose and the uppers completely undone, so there is some movement. Aside from remembering to cut your toe nails, a little extra length can help.

[gregL]

I haven't tried on the Zzeus, but the Titan liners are quite "cramped" (ie. tight) in the toe - when you have the liners baked, you normally will wear neoprene caps on your toes to create extra "wiggle room" there, so don't worry too much about how they feel in the store if you get the shell fit right.

[stuckathuntermtn]

You fit them like skiboots afaik. If your skiboots fit right, you can spend all day in them. Well I have even when they don't.

Or just get the red ones. Make sure they match your skis.

[steventy]

Thanks for the advice all.

I went with the 2010 Dynafit Titan TF-X boots. They fit nicely and they also meet stuckathuntermtn's criteria of matching my skis and having some red on them. I haven't had them thermomolded yet.

I will say that the hardest thing to evaluate in the store was fit while skinning. This was especially true since I've never skinned. It seems like the kind of thing that you can only figure out for sure after a few km on real skis.

They were on sale so the price difference between these and the Zzeus wasn't that significant. As far as I could tell, the Zzeus had an identical fit and almost an identical liner. Walk mode also felt the same in both boots. However, there was a significant difference in flex when in ski mode. With Titan on my right and Zzeus on my left, I could flex them about the same amount. With Zzeus on my right and Titan on the left, I could flex the right foot much further. It looks like I've got a fair amount of basic leg strengthening to do... For reference, I'm 6', 180lb.

Since I'm a novice, I might have been a bit optimistic going with the Titan boots over the Zzeus (not too late to return if that was a horrible choice...) Then again, I can't afford to drop $600-$700 on a boot very often so I want something that will still be useful for me in a year.

[mntlion]

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...hat-boots-quot
or
http://www.epicski.com/a/boot-fittin...ll-work-for-me
if you are using them as alpine boots as well, fit them like alpine boots. and for long walks maybe use a thinner sock.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I always wear Smartwool Ultralight.

I don't tour either. Are you worried about the flex? I'm the same size as you and tried on the Zzeus. Thing folded under worse than a hiking boot. So stiffness shouldn't be an issue. As far as toe room, well, remember the shell fit thing you did? That liner is gonna pack out a lot more after a day touring, than a day lift skiing. (so I hear). So I wouldn't worry about that either. Heal hold down? It's got a walk mode. Blood flow? Blood flow is always nice.

[sb]

Now that you have your Titans chuck the Dfit liner to the closet and get a set of Intuitions.

[mc51c0]

FYI. Dynafit "One" PU 28/28.5 shell with an older Intuition 28.5 liner from an old pair of mango Maestrales. With a very thin sock and the Scarpa footbed great heel hold (i have skinny ankles). Without the Scarpa footbed I can also achieve great heel hold with a thick sock. Took me awhile to figure this out which is why I am posting. Both ways are comfortable, but footbed seems to work a little better than without footbed.