rocker 101 article

[marshalolson]

so i wrote a rocker 101 article. i got tired of all the miss-conceptions, miss-information and confusion... so the article discusses camber, reverse camber, reverse sidecut, rocker, early rise, splay, contact points, and running lengths.

this article looks to highlight all the leading contributors to this ski design revolution including: volant, k2, line, 4frnt, on3p, moment, praxis, volkl and dps.

i am prepping a 202 article in the next week or two as well that will dive much deaper into the finer points of effective edge, how turn radius works (especially on rockered skis), progressive radius, and the like.

http://blistergearreview.com/articles/rocker-101

feel free to call me out if any facts seem off, i would love to research any point of contention.

[splat]

An example of what traditional sidecut looks like in dim numbers would give people an idea of how the newer sidecuts differ, i.e., old traditional waist 20mm narrower than tip, tail 10mm narrower than tip. Seemed to be the standard for a long time.

[marshalolson]

great feedback pat. thanks.

[arild]

You got it right, Marshal! Looking forward to the next article.

When is bootfitting 202 coming, though?

[whyturn]

Ineresting read Taper is unique IMO. Especially the 2oons since they truly taper. Only ski to so that. First one seemed to have zero sidecut which was always a POC with my buddy. If zero sidecut radius was zero or infinite (varied depending on angle). Anyways great time to ski. Did you see future of akin article in skimag? Varying radius and interesting boot stuff. Shapes are great and materials are varied. Shane some "rocker" is going way of generic vs unique. Renegade is just that, great name. Powder gets gobbled up. Hoverboards to get the goods man it will be George jetson before you know it. Really were already there just not commercially.

[marshalolson]

whyturn - there is discussion both of overall taper as well as taper angles (the really important aspect actually) going into 202, yes.

as far as "straight" cut skis, i can use the lotus 138 as an example, since i know the numbers, it is 140-138-139, and that is technically a 122m radius. it does not behave like that due to the rocker... i do not know of a TRUE straight sidecut ski.

realistically, 3 points always define a circle/radius. so as long as the ski is capable of being bent, and there is a difference between the tip is wider than the midsole there will always be definable sidecut, no? a truly interesting concept would be designing a ski that bends INTO being straight. i would likely ski poorly, but a neat design ideal anyhow. subtle reverse sidecut + camber... with rocker tip and tail. weird stuff there.

[MakersTeleMark]

i do not know of a TRUE straight sidecut ski.

Wasn't there the original Goode STR8?

http://www.chinese-downhill.com/gear...ride-skis/str8

[marshalolson]

good point. that thing is as close as you can possibly get for sure.

it is 140-135-130, but the midsole is not directly between the tip and tail measurements, so its not perfect straight line, and therefore has an associated sidecut. off-the-cuff guess is about 200m or so, but i don't have the exact position of the midsole handy. but yeah, that is in essence straight.

[mtskier]

4frnt has contributed to this discussion over the years. The videos are solid.

[marshalolson]

4frnt has contributed to this discussion over the years. The videos are solid.

i love matt. great guy and a good buddy.

certainly good stuff and worth watching, and a lot of overlap.

several of the explanations however (notably in rocker vs. early rise) tread more on matt's opinion, as he admits, and less on what eric pollard coined the term to mean... just IMO.

[whyturn]

I think a ski that tapers to tail with a true straight section underfoot say one tied of length with camber to set edge and nose rocker that matches tail section from straight point could work. Anyways tons of good ideas and cool development. I guess copying is still best form of flattery. Innovation is still mother of invention. Won't know it works till you try. They all thought Shane was crazy and spatula still rocks

[bodywhomper]

it seems like the definition ya'll worked out for the term "rocker", "the shovel rises before the sidecut reaches the widest point of the shovel or tail", cannot be applied to the current praxis protest or powder boards. is that intentional?

[marshalolson]

the praxis powder board is reverse camber.

the protest is certainly unique in terms of shaping for several reasons IMO, and i would not be so bold as to pigeon-hole it somewhere.

[bodywhomper]

good (and easy) point about the powder boards, me and my reading comprehension not doing too well at the end of a friday work day.... and nice diplomatic response about the protest, ever thought about politics

my (lack of coherent) reading comprehension brings up a point about the docu organization/outline. it's a little shuffled. if you were to go back and re-organize this (not likely, i know, but maybe useful for your next article), i'd consider this organization for your current article to improve readability (the numbers are only meant to illustrate the organization of headings and subheadings):

Rocker 101
1.0 intro
2.0 camber
2.1 traditional camber
2.2 reverse camber
2.3 rocker
3.0 sidecut/radii
3.1 reverse sidecut
4.0 conclusion

cheers

[4FRNT]

several of the explanations however (notably in rocker vs. early rise) tread more on matt's opinion, as he admits, and less on what eric pollard coined the term to mean... just IMO.

Our working definition as Matt explains it helps to bring some distinction between skis in our own line. Where as in our rockered skis we add a radius (say Renegade, CRJ or YLE), in early rise we flatten out the camber radius, to create an extended contact point that splays open only when a ski is de-cambered (our Turbo).

Honestly, it's all really semantics as there is no industry standard for any of these terms, and they're all used interchangeably by most people. Either way it's a good article, thanks for taking the time to post it.

[splat]

the praxis powder board is reverse camber.

the protest is certainly unique in terms of shaping for several reasons IMO, and i would not be so bold as to pigeon-hole it somewhere.

Keith has a name for it. It's like Continuous Rocker Curve or something. I know when we talked about it, he felt it should be a definitive term for discussions like this.

[marshalolson]

nice diplomatic response about the protest

i have mounted a handful of protests and think it looks like a really neat and interesting ski. i have not been on it, but the tip and tail shape really are, in my opinion, unlike anything else on the market.

thanks for the note on that splat, i will ask keith about his terminology for this particular ski, and it sounds like keith looks at it as something that diverges from a traditionally rockered ski as well.

Honestly, it's all really semantics as there is no industry standard for any of these terms, and they're all used interchangeably by most people.

i agree completely, and i think that has confused a lot of folks, mainly the end consumer. the point of my article was to define where these designs came from, and what these term were originally applied to. if someone wants to use any of these terms to describe something beyond the scope of their introduction, by all means. no problem on my end. I am for sure not looking to police any of this stuff... but i thinks worth noting, anyhow, to ease confusion to the consumer.

i certianly was not trying to minimize those videos. they are sick... i had only seen 1 or 2 of them. really cool thing that 4frnt put together.

[4FRNT]

but i thinks worth noting, anyhow, to ease confusion to the consumer.

Word. No argument here. Anything that can advance us beyond just talking about top sheet colors is ok in my book!

[wolfelot]

Great 101 article marshalolson. Thanks for posting!

[whyturn]

I just call it continuous rockin fun. Rocker rocks when I splay out my decambered turns. Oh wait I don't turn, crap now I gotta rethink this.