Vivid R2C vs. DHX RC4 vs. CCDB... I need your thoughts.

[Swine]

Blew up the shock on my V-tach... so it's shopping time.

I know these fall under wildly different price points, and yes, money is an object usually, but I really just want the best shock and am willing to pony up if the CCDB or the Fox is that much better. But, how DOES the Vivid R2C Coil compare to the DHX RC4? With the way the V-tach linkage works it seems like it would be interesting to have the beginning and ending stroke rebound adjustment of the Vivid. Not sure I'd really use the high speed compression on the DHX much. And then, of course there is the stupid awesome adjustability of the CCDB.

Also, fwiw, I feel fairly confident setting up shocks (not that I don't have anything to learn), but I do change stuff a lot based on what I'm doing e.g. bike park 30 ft tables, freeride 15 ft. drops, maching DH over roots and rocks, hitting buff trails, or pedaling up several miles to self shuttle. In any given day I'm cranking and messing with compression and rebound multiple times (in an ideal world would I not have to do this with a really good shock?) The one that blew up is an old '06 Roco Coil with only rebound and compression.

Any insight is appreciated.

[hick]

You should look at that x fusion vector hlr. I know Marshall reviewed one on here somewhere and it sounded like the cats meow.

[character zero]

Rockshox Vivid 5.1 Coil: this shock is an absolutely great value: for the price, there is simply no other coil shock on the market that can compete with it performance wise. If you're on a bit of a budget - or want a shock that is fairly simple to set up and will very work well in all situations, then this is it. The addition of both high and low speed rebound adjusters provides fine tuning options as well. Do not think of the Vivid as a value shock - instead think of it as a top performance tier shock available at a very good price.

Fox DHX 5.0 Air: this shock is our biggest seller with Delirium framesets. Customers choosing this shock are usually a little more concerned with overall bike weight as this shock is obviously lighter than any coil shock. Bottom out resistance is easily tunable, but the mid stroke support is a bit weak compared to coil sprung shocks. However, I can quite confidently say that the Delirium's progression curve brings out the best of the DHX 5.0 Air. The easy to access Propedal lever increases the low speed compression damping stiffening up the frame's suspension for extended pedaling / climbing. Additionally, this shock has shown extremely good reliability - even for an air shock - since 2007.

Fox DHX RC4 Coil: obviously Fox' flag ship coil shock was completely redesigned for the 2010 model year. Some of the most noticeable changes are: the larger shaft (from 0.50" to 0.625" dia. I think which is also the reason for the increased reservoir volume) to push more oil through the compression damping circuit, separate low and high speed compression adjustment knobs for improved tuning options, and new valving. This shock modernizes the venerable DHX coil series of shocks, which really has to be one of the most successful suspension products ever in the MTB market. This is a great choice for the customer that wants a reasonably easy to tune shock that works well in all situations, included extended pedaling, big hits and complicated terrain. This shock has had in general excellent reliability over the years and servicing is available around the world through Fox' extensive distribution network.

Cane Creek Double Barrel: this is our high end coil shock choice on many of our frames. As many posters have mentioned, the shock is currently pretty much unique on the market with its twin tube damping (circular oil paths). The shock features both high and low speed compression and rebound circuits, allowing for a very wide range of tuning options. While it IS possible to tune the CCDB to work poorly with pretty much any frame if you're not careful, most Knolly customers will find that a CCDB shipped with their Knolly frame will need only minor adjustments to achieve the best tune for their bike. The tuning process for this shock is somewhat iterative, so you'll want to know what you're doing instead of blindly guessing when turning knobs, but it's not that hard to figure out and their manual explains things very clearly (you just might have to read it more than once to really understand it. Set up properly, this shock just does pretty much everything right all of the time: it can be tuned to pedal extremely well, be able to handle big hits and to deal with complicated terrain / multiple hits easily. You just find the balance that you want and you're good to go!

This was posted by Noel/Knollybikes.com user at that one board in this thread.

Honestly, I like the CCDB mated to my Delirium. The CCDB was a great performer on my last bike (Ventana Terremoto), but the Terremoto's falling end stroke and the lack of BO control on the CCDB weren't the best match. Given the linkage/integrated bottom out control on the Knollys, the CCDB is pretty tits. Loved it on the TM, and came spec'd on the Delirium, so I cannot comment on the Vivid/RC4.

Hope that helps.

[Swine]

Thanks for the reply. I have read quite a bit from Noel on "that other forum" but haven't come across this. I know that he loves the hell out of the CCDB, but there appears to be some backlash by other posters over there, so I was trying to get a possibly more objective point of view. Fact of the matter is, most everyone who throws one on a bike can't stop talking about how awesome it is... so, I suppose that's a good indicator. However, I'm still terribly interested in how the new Vivid R2C Coil is, and...air shocks and forks aren't allowed on my bike

[character zero]

Thanks for the reply. I have read quite a bit from Noel on "that other forum" but haven't come across this. I know that he loves the hell out of the CCDB, but there appears to be some backlash by other posters over there, so I was trying to get a possibly more objective point of view. Fact of the matter is, most everyone who throws one on a bike can't stop talking about how awesome it is... so, I suppose that's a good indicator. However, I'm still terribly interested in how the new Vivid R2C Coil is, and...air shocks and forks aren't allowed on my bike

Yeah, I know there are certain users that despise the lack of speed-sensitive shimming built into the CCDB, but those are the very vocal minority. Of course, they really dig an Elka or a Avy for that same reason - I'd happily spec either of those (esp the AVY) over the Fox or RS offerings. There is just nothing off the shelf that will touch custom and Craig at Avy is a great guy.

As for the Vivid, I'd try that over the Fox. Admittedly a SRAM fan, they've really made some changes to their lineup and revisions over time that have improved their shock offerings. The Monarch Plus air can is getting rave reviews and I think the vivid coil has seen some changes. The biggest caveat when going for the Vivid is that YOU need to decide which compression tune is going to fit your riding and bike the best - there are low/med/high IIRC. One of my buddies ran a Vivid coil on his RFX for a while before buying his Knolly and he liked it, but it was also his first coil. I almost picked one up for backup to the CCDB at one point as well.

If you want to try the "budget" offering, I'd say go for it! Report back with pics too...FWIW, I've seen a lot of bigger bikes running the Vivid too, so maybe they play nicer or just sell better for longer travel applications.

Hope that helps some...helps muddy the waters a bit

[Swine]

After much deliberation... the Vivid wins the contest. I want to play with the beginning and ending stroke rebound option. Hopefully I can get it before a trip to Oregon in 10 days. I will post a full review after I get it setup. Based on the I2I and travel of the V-tach I calculated the leverage ratio to be 2.8 which sort of puts me on the med/high line with the tune. I'm thinking medium because I generally never weigh more than 170 lbs with gear. But, I'll see, I emailed Knolly but they haven't gotten back to me (which is atypical based on my communication with them in the past).

[frorider]

I really dig my CCDB and will be putting it on the new DHR.

But I was wondering if you'd considered getting a used dhx coil (doesn't have to be working) and having the push MX conversion? You get Avy internals, a custom tune for your bike and riding preferences, hi/lo spd compression, all for reasonably low $$. I went this route last summer for my uzzi vpx and it transformed the riding.

[allTandA]

I can't stop talking about how wicked rad my CCDB is on the delirium!



no REALLY

[Swine]

I really dig my CCDB and will be putting it on the new DHR.

But I was wondering if you'd considered getting a used dhx coil (doesn't have to be working) and having the push MX conversion? You get Avy internals, a custom tune for your bike and riding preferences, hi/lo spd compression, all for reasonably low $$. I went this route last summer for my uzzi vpx and it transformed the riding.

I thought about this, and probably would have gone this route if there wasn't a time crunch. When the bank account gets a little flush again I might send the Roco off to have a custom rebuild and compare it to the R2C, or I might not...

I can't stop talking about how wicked rad my CCDB is on the delirium!

no REALLY

I get it, I GET IT! It's sweet, but in the end price and delivery time won out. And... on that note, there is a shiny new R2C sitting on my desk. Going on the bike tonight!

[Swine]

So... I thought the spring off my Roco would work with the Vivid. Hours and many zip ties later, it definitely does not (slightly different inside diameter). Anyone in the SLC area have a 400 or 450 2.75 Rockshox spring laying around that I could beg, borrow, buy? Leaving for Oregon Thursday morning and would rather not get hammered by overnight shipping... Or... who stocks this shit?

[Shepherd Wong]

I'm in Sandy and have a 450

[Swine]

PM sent.

[Swine]

So, Shepherd came through with the spring and I got a first ride in this weekend in Ashland, OR. No big drops or jumps so the jury is out on those, but on what I did ride (we took the Ashland Mountain Adventures shuttle up to the base of the ski resort) the Vivid R2C performed pretty damn great. Maybe it's because I was riding the blown out Roco for about a month, but I was impressed with the Vivid. I kind of just forgot about the rear suspension and went hurtling through rock gardens, corners, braking bumps, and little drops and jumps. The rear end tracked great, handled the bumps well, and popped off faces with a lot more snap than the Roco (this might be due to the higher spring rate I'm running now). I also got a 400 lbs. spring (in the nick of time) but I'm so happy with the 450 from Shepherd that it's going to take awhile for me to do a comparison. The Vivid just feels more "lively" compared to the Roco, but still has enough dampening that there are no complaints. More testing is definitely due but I'm super happy thus far. Oh, and did I mentioned Rockshox isn't fucking retarded like Marzocchi and actually made their spring easy to switch out? Still not getting rid of the 888 though...

And as requested (and I just figured this out again)... pix.

On the bike




In the air