Bro 187 Fat Review

[AltaPowderDaze]

Late this season I was able to put about 25 days on PMGear's newest creation, the 187cm Fat. At 114mm underfoot it is the right size for today's western all mountain ski. The ski tested was what I'd describe as between a mid stiff and stiff when compared with previous pmgear skis. This flex makes it very controllable and an easy ski to ride. It can be driven as well as taken for a cruise and you won't pay for getting lazy on this one like you would some other hard chargers.

My Stats:
185lbs with a 15-20lb pack.
6'0"
aggressive to sunday driver depending on the day.
No park, 40% groomed and 60% off piste at work and Backcountry on days off.

Ski's I have and like:
BD Megawatt 188cm
RC 112 188cm
Dynastar XXL's 187cm
BD zealot '07 182cm

Skis I dislike:
2010-2011 white top sheet Dynastar LP's
Dynastar Big Dumps
anything floppy



Conditions tested:

Corn and Wasatch quasi Korn - Big grin when riding these conditions. for a fat ski these things really shine here. the turn radius is made to order. if you want to throw down high speed GS turns, they'll rail them out. shutting it down to tight turns and you'll hit a 20m turn w/o much effort. you can squeeze a 15m if you lay into it.

Graupel - it's always fun to ski gruapel and the 187's are no exception.

Heavy pow - they rode on top and tracked as expected. not a chance of a tip dive in the spring fresh. I wish we had some of cold smoke but june was good enough to us. I'd imagine that these skis would perform well in most pow conditions with the rockered tip.

Chopped up - they're stiff enough to drive right through the chopped and crud with only minimal deflection. for as light weight as the ski is i was surprised at how they could be piloted through at high speeds without losing too much contact with the snow or getting the wobbles.

Mashed potatoes - The tip is stiff enough to keep you from going over the bars and i tested that regularly. wax and structure would help all my skis but i'm not much on tuning.

Sun cups - Not much does perform well here. these skis were forgiving with a moderatly damp tip and little more stiff in the tail.

Spring Firm snow - that means ice to us west coasters. this is where all fat skis suffer. this ski performed adequate and held an edge just fine. you just have to realize you're on a 114mm ski under foot and not get too pushy.

Hardpack - They'll turn and burn. putting an edge in is no problem.

Groomed - no complaints. they'll carve, slarve, butter and window wash. they do what you ask.


This ski is a playful ski that is one of the more versatile skis i've been on. I currently have it mounted at 39 5/16 BC from the tip with a stiff tape. For those that tried it at the mamoth mini, that is 3/4" further forward than the closest BC mark on that ski. I found it held better in the tail and initiated turns with minimal pressure.

FWIW, I liked them so much I bought them.

--i'll try to update this short summer skiing season turns to fall. we'll be back in the pow in no time.

[DoWork]

i've checked out the BRO skis before and some of my touring partners have owned them. they seemed kind of cheaply built to me just like most of the "boutique" brands out there. they also seemed quite chattery to me when watching my partners ski "variable" conditions. i get that all of these new skis, ski pow well, but what ski doesn't really? the only ski i've been on in this width range is the 185cm bd justice at 115mm underfoot during a 30" storm cycle. twas definitely fun fer sure. would these skis be much different? the line prophet 115 look really nice.

rog

Rog, if you ever want to give them a shot I have 183 carbon fats I'd be happy to lend you but only if you promise to beat them. Great ski, expecially for a guy who likes to make lots and lots of turns in pow such as yourself. Heavier or insane skiers might want to have Pat make them a bit stiffer, but I find them to be a blast. Anyways, let me know.

[D(C)]

Sounds sweet! Have you tried the Lhasa for comparison?

[schuss]

Also, though I am biased, I will note that the later years are much higher quality than the first few years of batches, due to some contract manufacturing... inconsistencies.
Depending on the pair your friends have, they might not be as nice as the newer ones. That said, EC ice/"Packed Powder" ice will get chattery on almost anything without a severe sidecut or metal layers, of which the bro has neither.

[icelanticskier]

Rog, if you ever want to give them a shot I have 183 carbon fats I'd be happy to lend you but only if you promise to beat them. Great ski, expecially for a guy who likes to make lots and lots of turns in pow such as yourself. Heavier or insane skiers might want to have Pat make them a bit stiffer, but I find them to be a blast. Anyways, let me know.

thank you my friend. dunno if i could possible ski aggressively enough to beat them, but i would most certainly turn the fuck out of em. gonna be tough to go straighter with no metal as i love me some big sidecut and damp metal layer, but i could open my mind a bit, i guess

i will let you know!

rog

[splat]

Tell you what, rog, you go ski DoWork's skis and if you can break them, I'll give you a pair.
Also, please look them over real close and tell me how cheap they look once they're in your hands.
Feel free to post your honest impressions right here.
In the meantime, here's a few close-ups of the construction on our skis, a pair of 187 Fats like altapowderdaze's pair.
I've pointed out why what we build could hardly be called cheap.
I hope you'll become familiarized with the skis we make by taking DoWork up on his offer.
Thanks for this opportunity to exhibit the finer points of our skis, which are actually quite rich in detail, craftsmanship and expensive construction materials.
.
.
.
.
.
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Ever bother to look at the material joints on skis in the shops, ie, where the edge meets a metal tip piece, where a sidewall meets the tip filler, etc?
Look real close at the joints on this ski then go down to your local shop and compare.
Know any other companies that put diecut metal with diecut base in their tips and tails?
That doesn't include companies that paint similar designs into their bases.
Not cheap.




Here's a shot of the sidewall and edge. Not real focused, but it illustrates my point.
The two black lines in the sandwich are full layers of carbon fiber.
Not cheap.




This is a shot of the bases with actual diecuts in the base and the tip and tail pieces.
The edge is thick, the base is thick. The craftmanship beats anything out there, imo.
None of it is 'cheap, like other indies' as you stated.





Attachment 98651
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Attachment 98653

[icelanticskier]

Tell you what, rog, you go ski DoWork's skis and if you can break them, I'll give you a pair.
Also, please look them over real close and tell me how cheap they look once they're in your hands.
Feel free to post your honest impressions right here.
In the meantime, here's a few close-ups of the construction on our skis, a pair of 187 Fats like altapowderdaze's pair.
I've pointed out why what we build could hardly be called cheap.
I hope you'll become familiarized with the skis we make by taking DoWork up on his offer.
Thanks for this opportunity to exhibit the finer points of our skis, which are actually quite rich in detail, craftsmanship and expensive construction materials.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Ever bother to look at the material joints on skis in the shops, ie, where the edge meets a metal tip piece, where a sidewall meets the tip filler, etc?
Look real close at the joints on this ski then go down to your local shop and compare.
Know any other companies that put diecut metal with diecut base in their tips and tails?
That doesn't include companies that paint similar designs into their bases.
Not cheap.




Here's a shot of the sidewall and edge. Not real focused, but it illustrates my point.
The two black lines in the sandwich are full layers of carbon fiber.
Not cheap.




This is a shot of the bases with actual diecuts in the base and the tip and tail pieces.
The edge is thick, the base is thick. The craftmanship beats anything out there, imo.
None of it is 'cheap, like other indies' as you stated.





Attachment 98651
Attachment 98652
Attachment 98653

well i may just have to fondle and ski the new(er) offerings then. thanx for the passionate words and detailed photos.

rog

[AltaPowderDaze]

Sounds sweet! Have you tried the Lhasa for comparison?

yes, i owned a pair of 191's briefly but it wasn't an everyday driver for me and it duplicated my quiver with the RC112's. I also feel like i may have had the mounting point off because they were less predictable than similar comps. they required attention and would make you pay for getting lazy.

rog,
i've been on several sets of pmgear skis over the years and can tell you that the quality has come way up in recent years. there are ways to make a ski cheap that skis well but pat went the extra mile with these. it's not necessary to have a tail cap but those that can't seem to carry their skis and use them as a walking stick will appreciate it. all the die cut is fancy and just sets the skis off but is not necessary. it's a nice signature though.

for a lightweight ski it chatters less than i'd expect. i use it for resort skiing but it would make an excellent touring ski as well, provided it rips the pow as expected. the bd justice skis pow well but is not very versatile. i'd much rather ski my mega watts (blue top sheet, stiffer model) as an all condition ski and they are not ideal for much more than soft conditions but they have more potential than the soft justice.

[jgb@etree]

well i may just have to fondle and ski the new(er) offerings then.

Like DW said, Rog - swing by SoVT this winter. It's pretty safe to assume that among the Magic Mags you'll find every model of PM Gear ski

Pretty stoked as this year I'll have SuperBro's, 192's and 191 Lhasa's mounted @ 325 with Solly's, and am looking for decent but light demo binder to put on my wife's 179 so other people can ski them as I'm about 99% confident that she'll only use them on dump days when we're out west. Gonna get her up some old school Bro 164's as a daily driver for this season.

And you definitely need to hold a pair in your hands and see the quality. IIRC, you work in a shop, so you can see the crappy quality that most of the big brands pump out every day. If you lay your hands on a newer pair of Bro's, I'm pretty confident you'll be impressed.

I should really take some pictures of the bases on my 195's. I've ski'd them ~30 days on fairly typical east coast rocks and the bases look almost new. I'm usually good for a nice solid core shot (or two) every 5-7 days of skiing.

[icelanticskier]

i guess i'll be taking my 1st trip over to magic then. looking forward to it!!! haven't done much tree skiing in years, but judging by the pics and the hard work going on over there, i may have to put my shortswings to good use. maybe i can get drewvw to come over with me.

rog

[DoWork]

thank you my friend. dunno if i could possible ski aggressively enough to beat them, but i would most certainly turn the fuck out of em. gonna be tough to go straighter with no metal as i love me some big sidecut and damp metal layer, but i could open my mind a bit, i guess

i will let you know!

rog

Meh, I just meant they like it rough I am confident you'd find the construction perfect for the turns you make, as they are very maneuverable yet nice and stable. I mean, I suck at skiing and I can make banger turns with them so I'm positive you'd own the shit out of them.

Tell you what, rog, you go ski DoWork's skis and if you can break them, I'll give you a pair.

Yeah... I mean HEY!! Wait a second!

i guess i'll be taking my 1st trip over to magic then. looking forward to it!!! haven't done much tree skiing in years, but judging by the pics and the hard work going on over there, i may have to put my shortswings to good use. maybe i can get drewvw to come over with me.

rog

It would be great to have you! I might have to take a trip up to the whites this year too... Just got back from my first George trip and I'm foaming at the mouth to get back when there's some snow up there. But yeah, come to magic anytime for a tour and some "southern" hospitality.

[angry swede]

I'll have SuperBro's, 192's and 191 Lhasa's

What determines when you take out the the 192 [Bro] vs the 191 Lhasa?

I've ski'd them ~30 days on fairly typical east coast rocks and the bases look almost new. I'm usually good for a nice solid core shot (or two) every 5-7 days of skiing.

I picked up a used pair of 188 Bros midseason and can verify that they have bomber bases, they were supposed to just be for touring but became my daily driver after i got sick of repairing the bases on my rossi s5's. At the end of the season there was one little gouge in the ptex, that's it and I skied over everything with them, I am a gear abuser.

[jgb@etree]

What determines when you take out the the 192 [Bro] vs the 191 Lhasa?

Not 100% sure as Lhasa 191's & 192's were added to the quiver this summer & haven't been on either yet. I'm thinking it'll be something like this:

No new snow = SuperBro
Some new snow/trees/softish snow/<6" of pow = 191 Lhasa
True powder day = 192

I picked up a used pair of 188 Bros midseason and can verify that they have bomber bases, they were supposed to just be for touring but became my daily driver after i got sick of repairing the bases on my rossi s5's. At the end of the season there was one little gouge in the ptex, that's it and I skied over everything with them, I am a gear abuser.

That's exactly what I've found as well. It's really nice to have bomber bases when you ski on rock almost as much as snow!

[Piggity]

JGB did you get the Lhasa fats? I heart those skis

I'm an admitted tech jong but I've managed to shred 4FRNT VCT's in less than 4 days, Both bases and top sheets. I've also delamed skis from the tip of the ski to the front part of my binding and I've also completely disintegrated a pair of skis after landing on dry reef coming off a small cliff.

That said, My Lhasa Pows are in pristine shape after 5 days. I know that is a short time period to analyze them but I also managed to shred those VCT's in the same amount of time.

Quality construction is my last concern with my Lhasa Fats.

[jgb@etree]

Didn't go with the fat's as most of my skiing is on the east coast - the standard width seemed like it'd be more versatile... particularly in de treez.

[The Dad]

Also, though I am biased, I will note that the later years are much higher quality than the first few years of batches, due to some contract manufacturing... inconsistencies.

As the proud owner of a pair of Canuck-generation 188s (retired after base could no longer be ground due to inconsistencies), a pair of the first generation of Reno 188 blems (still my touring skis), and Euro-generation 164s (my daughter's) and 195 SuperBros, and the fondler of recent Reno output, I can attest that quality is vastly improved and on a par with the best boutique skis.

[Piggity]

I would have probably done the same if I was still back east, although these fats rail in tight trees. Icy conditions were a breeze too, not boiler but a normal crusty day. Fat skis for a Fat skier, sweet.

[icelanticskier]

It would be great to have you! I might have to take a trip up to the whites this year too... Just got back from my first George trip and I'm foaming at the mouth to get back when there's some snow up there. But yeah, come to magic anytime for a tour and some "southern" hospitality.

Thanx!

come to George anytime. I'm always up there finding what I seek, and love to share.

rog

[cinnepa]

and as far as a Bro not holding on ice too well here on the right coast...cancel that, after splat sold me a pair of 188's that i swear had 2 layers of metal in them.

[schuss]

One of the big reasons why some people say it doesn't hold an edge out east is because you have to know how to put an edge in to use them, since there's not enough sidecut for the ski to do it for you. That was my experience on the OG 188 softs anyway.

[huckster989]

Anyone ridden both the 186 Lhasa and the 187 fat and offer a comparison? I want to use this ski with dyanduke plates and it would be my daily driver / deep touring rig. The 187 fat seems the obvious choice with it being more traditional for everyday but people seem to love the lhasas all over the place

[splat]

Ask powdork, huckster. He preferred the 187 Fats over the 196 this past season and most of the pics he posted were of him on the 187. They had 191 topsheets but they were 187 Fats. Piggity Pow picked up that last pair of 187s this am...

[Atrain505]

The difference between the 187 fat and the 186 lhasa is exactly what you would expect it to be. It is easier to release the tail on the lhasa. This makes it better for dumping speed quickly and swinging the ski around very quickly. But also because of that the 187 fat holds an edge slightly better on hardpack and feels slightly beefier in the way it performs...i.e. it wants you to ski big and fast. That's not to say they both aren't easy to make small turns with, they just make them differently. The fat is edgier and the lhasa is slashier.

AltaPowderDaze's comment on the 191 lhasas "they required attention and would make you pay for getting lazy," makes me think he had the older version of the 191 where the tail was 2mm wider than the current version (that was never tried on the other lengths of lhasas).

In my experience you can certainly be much lazier on a lhasa than a fat if it is a similar length. I.e. 186 lhasa can be lazier than a 187 fat. 191 lhasa can be lazier than a 192 fat.

I am a big advocate of the pintail (lhasa) since I spend most of my time in the backcountry in the coastal conditions of BC, but I can certainly see how a lot of people would prefer a more traditional sidecut (fat). It depends on your skiing style, your personal preferences, intended use, and geographic location. Both skis seriously rock, plain and simple.

[splat]

Well said, Athan. Plus, we just decided to just go ahead and do alligator skin topsheets this year.

[vanisle]

Athans description is spot on. Id like to add that the Lhasa gives me more of a 3 dimensional feeling,ie being "in" the snow,with the pintail dropping into the snowpack. Where the 187 fat is much more of a get up and float on top feeling.

Skiing the same snowpack as Athan ive got to agree the Lhasa is the way to go for me.