twins vs. mogul skis

[Jiehkevarri]

Any mogul skiers out there? (former or current...)

I was skiing zipperline bumbs the other day. It's been a long time since I've skiing that stuff seriously (or, better yet, even concentrating properly to the form, speed and staying in the zipper line). Anyway, there was a coach around and I was lucky to get some advice from him. The guy said that my technique is pure 80´s (suprise, as I've learned to ski the moguls in the late 80's)...that I absorb the moguls pretty backseated compared to the modern way. He was referring to the style of the current Finns in the world cup (Lahtela etc.), telling that I should ski in a more forward, aggressive position, keeping my back maybe a bit more crouched and when absorbing the bump trying to move my feet more just under my body (or actually,under my ass, as he said ), compared to the older style where you ski with a straight back and absorb the bumbs from a more rear weighted position, your knees & feet more in front of your body (this is hard to explain but watch current world cup mogul skiers and you get what I mean)

I tried to ski like the guy said. Well, I was getting very tired already and it felt much harder and physically demanding. Also, the thing that I noticed that with the modern twins I was skiing (1080's) the tip of the ski started to hook up a little too much and too early! When I was really trying to stay forward I felt the ski starting hook up really strongly in the tip, pretty much fucking up the turn rhytm at the very early stage of the turn...

So, I wonder if any of you guys really use modern speciality mogul skis? And how are those all-around? Or is there some twin that would do better as a mogul ski? I was thinking maybe a bit skinnier (70ish?), a bit stiffer, straighter (radius around 30-35m?), around 180-185cm...I'm wondering this cause I guess I'm goin to ski alot of moguls this year since I'm pretty much stuck in the flat area with small hills, and that jibbing & big jumps stuff is starting to scare me actually...

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Any mogul skiers out there? (former or current...)

former chiming in here...

I was asking myself this question just a few months back...I had a hole in my quiver for a park ski and was contemplating getting a straight-up mogul ski. I had the chance to grab either the Rossi Scratch FS or the Scratch Mogul (through the Powder LOTM thang) and opted for the Scratch FS (180) just because I thought it be more versatile for all mountain skiing than the mogul specific version. Besides, where I normally ski, moguls generally suck and I'd be spending just as much time, if not more, gaping around and hurting myself in the park.

When the original old-school (heh) 1080 came out (mid-season '98?) I immediately hopped on it from a pair of Solly Force 9 bumpers. And yeah I thought it was super strange in bumps...felt the tip hooking, if I got in the backseat at all the twin tip would shoot right out from under me, I thought they were too short (177) for when I really started maching fall-line, etc. etc. I hated them at first. BUT...I adjusted my stance a bit (more neutral for sure), got used to them, and eventually loved them.

Unfortunately, I don't have any first-hand experience with how the regular Scratch FS (with an 80mm waist) does in bumps since I blew out my knee and I won't be skiing again until May at the earliest.

BTW...bump skiing is making a come back
http://www.newschoolers.com/NS2/News...ll&news_id=752

[Lurch]

First thing first you do not want a ski that is stiff or fat in moguls. I have not been serious about moguls since I moved west so I can't tell you about the skis that are out now.

As far as technique goes the coach is right sitting back and pointing the skis straight is very bad. You want to be forward, start move you legs up before you get to the bump so you are smoother going over the bump with less jarring. Push your tips down the back side and pull your heels up as you are going over the shoulder this will keep your skis on the ground. The key is being smooth and staying on the ground except while you are going for air. You will notice you actually go faster as well. Also if you are not doing it already start concentrating on the 3rd or 4th mogul in front of you not the one you are on.

[72Twenty]

Get ahold of some older model Dynastar Concepts or the old Dynastar Candide Pro Model. It is a sweet bump ski. I still keep my red (gen 1) Concepts around JUST for bumps and rails.

[Woodsy]

what are these "mooguuls" to which you refer?

[Jiehkevarri]

Get ahold of some older model Dynastar Concepts or the old Dynastar Candide Pro Model. It is a sweet bump ski. I still keep my red (gen 1) Concepts around JUST for bumps and rails.

Oh yeah. I remember that those don't have that much sidecut! Thanks for the tip. There might be some of those around used...

PS. Lurch: I guess I have the basics dialed in... It was just about adjusting the stance more aggressive. I think it might have something to do that back in the day we always used 190-200 skis compared to modern 180's (with more sidecut). Also, just freeskiing alot lately has prolly changed my basic skiing stance: lower, legs further apart, hands wider...and that is definately not good in bumps - think your typical racer skiing moguls! I think I have to work on to be more compact (hands tightly in front and legs more together) and upright BETWEEN the bumbs. Now I remain too low between the turns, this affecting the smoothness (i.e I get all bouncy!). I guess the key is to fully extend after the bump (and push the tips down as you said)...this might be where I've got lazy in recent years...I just tend to fly over the bumbs, hauling ass in the backseat as it works well in soft "natural" bumps but NOT in the zipper line!

[Squirrel99]

'former bumper' also chiming in...

haven't been on a real mogul comp type ski in a long time, but I can say that the rossi b-2's (and XX in particular) ski well in those VW-sized piles of snow.

really like the XX when needed, but unfortunately, that ski has now been retired to the Boneyard courtesy of Mt. Baker this weekend

one bad thing about the Rossignol line is that they always blow out.
I've blown XX, XXX, B3, 4SM, 5SM, among others. That's my only complaint.

But even for the B3 and XXX- I ended up taking them in a zipper line for shits and giggles last year and they actually responded pretty well. Nice thing about the XX or B2 is that it's light, responsive, and quick edge to edge and you can also rip decent powlines with those.

edit: thinking about trying a version of the Scratch BC this spring

[trainnvain]

Get a pair of Dragonslayers and be done with it. Bumps rule.

[laseranimal]

provided that you don't center mount the concepts they do pretty well in the bumps.




I suck at bumps so you really shouldn't take any of my advice at all execpt for the part about not center mounting the concepts unless your doing flippy spinny shit

[Bluebird]

I second the volkl DragonSlayers. My wife (a bump coach) and I both ski them and they are the best bump ski I have owned. They also are not bad in the park/pipe and can hold an edge on the rest of the mountain as long as you can ski a straight ski. They also have a slight twin. I used to be on 191 atomic bump skis and in between I picked up a pair of Public enemys. Todays wider twins just don't cut it if you want to rip zipperlines. They just aren't fast enough edge to edge and the wider tips and tails will keep catching. I have since dropped the twin tip out of the quiver and stick with the slayers. I am now on a 180 and once you get used to the shorter length they are a ton of fun.

I used to ski bumps just like yourself until I met my wife ( the bump coach). The two tips that my wife gave me, and I use all the time, is picture pedaling a bike backwards. That motion is what you are striving for. Second, try to keep your tips and as much ski as possible on the snow at all times. If you can accomplish that you are on the right track.

[Jiehkevarri]

Well, that back pedaling motion was just what I've tried to describe (and what I'm missing). I tend to just move my feet up-and-down so that my shin stays vertically on the same line, this letting my torso too far back after the absorbion. The "back pedal" is just what I need to do to get my skis back under me right after the bump.

First that tip sounded strange but then I went infront of the mirror and tried it...and a light bulb flashed in my head! Thanks Bluebird. I gotta try that asap. I guess I will get it soon cause I've known how to ski bumps better earlier, just somehow lost it a bit recently! I will report when I hit the slopes next time...

As for skis...I googled and found this:

http://www.skimag.com/skimag/gear/ar...344434,00.html

Salomon and Rossi Mogul skis seem interesting also...just a bit more side cut and width, rossi even with a full on twin!

PS. Tyrone - good luck and vibes with the knee rehab! And btw. I've already spotted that link in another thread - very cool though. Personally I have much more respect to the new schoolers who also know how to really ski...(compared to the recent boom of 'rollerblade'skiers, monkey steezing their way through the slopes like they're constantly just about to hit a jump or a rail...)

[Bluebird]

Good luck and have fun. I just can't seem to get enough bumps and it always seems to pose a nice challenge on any eastern hill. As for those Rossi's and Salomon I would recommend staying far away. The salomon are way to noodly and the rossi's, while a great skis just don't hold up to the beating. The freestyle team that I ski with from time to time can show you what a ski is really made of. The Rossis's just don't pass the test. Every pair I have seen have eventually blown apart in one way or another. If you want a little more sidecut on a bump ski try the new K2 Cabrawler (sp?). A lot of the kids have it this year and they love it. I think they are on the K2 websitre (FYI, that article you referenced is at least 2 years old). If you want the best bump ski ever made check out the new Hart Skis website (www.hartskis.com). I just found out they are making skis again. Back in the day, aka the 90's, this was far and away the best bump ski ever made. I know of a couple of bumpers who bought 3-4 pairs when they heard they weren't going to produce skis any more. I had a pair once and they rip in the bumps. They are pretty much dead straight though. I do love my Volkl's though and ski can beat the quality. If you can find them pick them up!

[Storm11]

edit: thinking about trying a version of the Scratch BC this spring

A little advise from someone with a similar background (I exclusively skiied the XX and XXX before I picked up a pair of Scratches), the balance point is more forward on the Scratch BC than on the X's (could also be that I have Freerides on them, but I'm not sure). I hated them the first day cause the tails would wash out, but get a litte forward and they do just about everything sweet (except ice). I love them for skiing the trees in the BC cause they're a lot more forgiving than the XXX, yet float just as well. Pretty stable at high speeds too.

[ak_powder_monkey]

I have skied 33 days this year and have not ski one mogul (that was from stuff getting tracked at least, the wind does some weird things to mountains) unless you count kickers. Just thought I'd chime in and say skiing moguls is like telemarking, stupid, yet oddly entertaining

[Jiehkevarri]

Lucky you. I guess I wouldn't ski any moguls too if I lived in Alaska...

And funny enough I think I'm going to telemark tomorrow. (I just got old k2 Xplorers mounted tele!) At least it's good for your legs.

I just have to add some variety to keep things interesting. My back is aching from the jumps already (and only 6 skiing days under me yet). And because of the new job and 8 months old kid I'm (as said earlier) stuck in the flats...could be frustrating; season 02/03 around 80 days in the real mountains and season 03/04 still around 20 (while wife was pregnant)...this year I'm lucky if I could squeeze one week in the Alps (or possibly in the Tatra's of Eastern Europe,where I can get a very very cheap trip...not sure yet though)...and maybe, just maybe a few days up in the northern Scandinavia late spring.

I wish my bones would be young again...so I would be bustin' all this spinny-flippy stuff...now it's like one park session and a week's rest to heal (=not good...telemarking starts to sound interesting at this point, I may even take out my old snowboard some day )

[connersw]

I'm Dynastar biased, but I think the Assault was the best pure bump ski ever made. It is very limited outside of the bumps though, so if you are looking to add a bump ski with more versatility (and a twin tip) to your quiver, I'd reiterate the Candide Pro Model recommendation. It is much stiffer than the 1080 and quicker side to side. I've never skied the first gen red/white Concepts, but I've been through two-pairs of the 2nd gen green ones and I find the Candide even more responsive than those.

[ill-advised strategy]

I'm Dynastar biased, but I think the Assault was the best pure bump ski ever made. It is very limited outside of the bumps though....

My roommate, who just moved out to Utah (from Killington) with his VA's, got out in utah crud just before this last storm and tore it up on those skinny little straight skis...it blew me away.

Also: Hart is back!!! If you want a bump ski, ski the F-17...doesn't get any better.

[Jiehkevarri]

I was skiing bumps again yesterday. Took it pretty easy, concentrated on the technique (i.e skied slower)...Bluebirds tip was spot on. Although I got totally wrong skis, my friends Head Im 75's (=too burly), the skiing itself felt much better.

I guess I'm going to find if there's a decent pair of old Concepts/Candice pro's available somewhere. That would sound like a perfect match of bumps/park (can't afford two different pair of skis now!)

My roommate, who just moved out to Utah (from Killington) with his VA's, got out in utah crud just before this last storm and tore it up on those skinny little straight skis...it blew me away.

The competitive bumbers are (almost 100%) very good skiers, I would say. Yesterday we had couple of guys making perfect archs(sp?) on the groomers with their skinny&straight bumb sticks. Also, one young dude was throwing perfect crossed-up back flips right out of the zipper line, landing perfectly in the middle of the bumbs too. Fack, it made me feel old...

[connersw]

If you haven't seen it already: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=22624

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just heard about these new mogul specific sticks from K2. The CaBrawlers. Looks like Travis Cabral got a pro-model type ski. I like the dimensions for bumps. Hate the graphics though.

http://www.getboards.com/snow/twinti...cabrawler.html