Looking for first kayak

[PaSucks]

Relatively new to paddling, have done some easy whitewater and some flat water. The new girlfriend has a boat and is really into it and I want to get a boat as well. I want something whitewater capable that isn't going to absolutely suck on flatter water, and maybe can stow some gear or even be fished from. Does such a thing exist? Is this a stupid question? Or is this like buying all mountain skis that really just kind of suck equally at everything?

[cmsummit]

The boat you describe defines the "crossover" kayak category. Something like the Liquid Logic Remix would be an excellent choice.

LL Remix XP9

[XXX-er]

Relatively new to paddling, have done some easy whitewater and some flat water. The new girlfriend has a boat and is really into it and I want to get a boat as well. ?

its a pretty standard question for a newbie and not stupid just uninformed

define "really into it" cuz if you are paddling some tub with a skeg and yer paddle buds including your GF all have play boats you will spend a lot of time watching them from the eddy doing things your boat won't do

yes you need more than one boat or you end up with a boat that doesn't do anything particularly well ,I have paired down to 3 ... full on 17' seakayak, all around river runner light creeker ,full on play boat

I think you want to define where you want to go and what you want to do and get a boat that does it AND there are so many used boats out there that you can just buy used BUT don't buy some POS that is cheap but not popular (because its a dog) or you will be in the same situation a year later as the guy trying to sell YOU a dog

There are so many boats out there that you can ALMOST think of them as disposable definatley tradable/saleable ,I have seen play boaters buy a brand new boat try another which works better for them ...they sell/trade the brand new boat

if you play boat some boats will work better on your regular "home wave" than others

If you are "a paddler" and are commiting to the sport and I ask this cuz its not for everybody so not everybody does ,what you want to put money into is a good helmet,a good topline pfd with rescue belt ,a top line paddle ,topline wet/dry gear cuz these are the things you will have for the longterm ... while boats come and go

[RootSkier]

RI want something whitewater capable that isn't going to absolutely suck on flatter water, and maybe can stow some gear or even be fished from. Does such a thing exist?

No, nothing that will be satisfactory for both whitewater and fishing exists...except for a raft.

XXX_er is right -- the boat is the cheap part about kayaking. It's all the other stuff that gets expensive. You can score a perfectly acceptable used boat for $300-400.

[PaSucks]

The gf likes tamer rivers and lakes. She rafts 3 or 4 times a summer down in WV but hasn't done whitewater in a kayak. She would like to learn though. I've done a number of day trips on flatwater and have about 2 days on class 1 to 3 whitewater in a class I took. I'm hesitant to buy a pure whitewater boat because I don't see me getting out on it enough to justify the expense of owning two boats, and I don't see me progressing fast enough to need a boat capable of doing real big stuff in the next year or two. I like the idea of a crossover boat because of the versatility. I've got no need for anything over about 11 feet because of storage and transportation. The liquidlogic linked above is intriguing, and Dagger has a boat called the Approach that looks similiar. The problem I see with these boats is they are relatively new and the used market looks a little slim, at least around here. Are there any other models like this that maybe have been around longer? Or is it possible to modify something to fill my needs?

[crackboy]

Jackson also just put out a crossover boat, but most of these boats are relatively new so you won't find many for cheap used. the LL one is probabky your best bet since it has been around the longest.

you might want to consider a sport touring kayak, something llike a looksha sport or similar, it has the hard chines and planing hull and could probably handle some mellow whitewater. i think the looksha is 11 ft
the other option is to find an older long boat, which you should be able to find relatively cheap, but performance and comfort wise they won't compare to a newer boat

[Matt J]

I agree ^^^^

look for any old long boat i.e Dagger Response, Freefall, Perception Corsica

just make sure the hull isn't beat to shit and get in it and make sure it's reasonably comfortable

spend a little money on some closed-cell foam from your local paddling shop and it can be plenty whitewater worthy

don't get sucked into buying someone's old creekboat that's been paddled hard, anything in decent shape that's comfortable will work well for flat water although the longer the faster

[PASKIINGSUCKS]

Jefe what is a plethora??

Not sure where you are in PA, but if you're definitely looking for a cheap used boat I would point you in the direction of Starrkmoon Kayaks. He's down on the PA MD border below harrisburg, about 2 1/2 hours from me and I'm just south of Allentown. Dude is literally sitting on about 150 used boats and a lot of new ones too. I would suggest like others have said to make up your mind on what you want and to give Brad a call down there. More than likely he has a boat close to what you want for around 3-400 bucks. He's a pyrhana dealer so he has a lot of those new, not sure what they offer in a crossover though. If you're in the area it's worth just driving down to scope out the selection. Might save you some time cruising messageboards for used boats.

Starrk Moon Kayaks

497 Cold Cabin Rd
Delta , Pennsylvania
PA 17314
717 456 7720

Not tryin to Spam, dude is just kind of a household name down here in southeast PA. Added bonus: Muddy Creek is right down the road, class 2ish, dumps right into the susquehanna and brad will even run shuttle for ya. Just watch out for the gorge.

[Tye 1on]

I have an old Perception Pirouette which is pretty awesome for all kinds of water. They make an 'S' model too if you're say under 5'11/185.

[PaSucks]

Jefe what is a plethora??

Not sure where you are in PA, but if you're definitely looking for a cheap used boat I would point you in the direction of Starrkmoon Kayaks. He's down on the PA MD border below harrisburg, about 2 1/2 hours from me and I'm just south of Allentown. Dude is literally sitting on about 150 used boats and a lot of new ones too. I would suggest like others have said to make up your mind on what you want and to give Brad a call down there. More than likely he has a boat close to what you want for around 3-400 bucks. He's a pyrhana dealer so he has a lot of those new, not sure what they offer in a crossover though. If you're in the area it's worth just driving down to scope out the selection. Might save you some time cruising messageboards for used boats.

Starrk Moon Kayaks

497 Cold Cabin Rd
Delta , Pennsylvania
PA 17314
717 456 7720

Not tryin to Spam, dude is just kind of a household name down here in southeast PA. Added bonus: Muddy Creek is right down the road, class 2ish, dumps right into the susquehanna and brad will even run shuttle for ya. Just watch out for the gorge.

Thanks for the tip, I will check them out! I'm in Pittsburgh but a 3 hour drive is worth it if the deal is good enough.

I went to a demo day at a local lake on Saturday and paddled a bunch of boats. Unfortunately they don't really carry ww boats, they did have one cross over (venture flex 11), and a bunch of longer touring boats. I was surprised how fast the flex was with the skeg down, and it turned on a dime compared to the touring boats. I wish they had brought a few of the other boats they carry though, as the flex probably isn't ww oriented enough for what I'm looking for, and 11 feet is just too long.

[Tye 1on]

Also, check out the gear swap on Boatertalk. Used to be a great and solid place to buy, somebody else will have to chime in on the last ten years or so...

[PASKIINGSUCKS]

I take it you wanna play a bit in the holes??? This may be a problem. Can you roll, are you interested in rolling?? I ask this cause you can do a fair amount of tame whitewater without actually getting a pure WW boat. I used a 11.5 old town crossover for a year or two when I started before actually going full playboat. If ya just wanna crash through rapids and make a day of a class 2 or small 3 river it can be done in a touring boat. You'll swim if you flip though.


I fish out of this in lakes, I've taken it down the lehigh on dam release, and I even take it out on the ocean down in DE. Although I doubt I'd try and run it down the lower yough or anything like that.

I'd say if ya wanna play and roll, ditch the crossover idea and go straight play or creek boat. A crossover won't be as fun in the rapids anyway. .02

Call starrkmoon regardless, he's got all kinds of wacky boats down there.

[JerseyDave]

Buy an older playboat from the late 90s like a Redline or RPM and a canoe. Off of craigs list 400 bucks total. Good in white water up to class 4, and flat water from solo fishing to multiday trips with your sweetie.

[SuperChief]

What kind of boat is you gf paddling? It might be a good idea to get something similar.

If you want to look at a huge range of new boats and some used ones, go see Jeff at Rocky Mountain Kayaks. He's a bit closer to you in New Stanton. He also has a pond, and used to do river clinics on the lower Yough. All around he's a good guy and has a ton of inventory, including flatwater and sea kayaks.

Also go to Ohiopyle and check out what's going on up there. There are some good shops there and have some used inventory, plus guides that are selling old equipment.

Fishing from a decked boat is a bitch. I'd try and get that idea out of your head. it can be done but is a pain.

Shoot me a PM if you find anything specific and want an opinion based on class 3 and 4 river running and surfing.

[gringorasta]

Id say your best bet is to get a job with an outfitter/ guide company cause then you can use all their boats for free, get sick pro-deals on new gear, and take clinics/ learn from all the guys you'll be working with. I guess getting paid to kayak every day isn't for everybody, but I sure have a blast all summer!

[XXX-er]

Buy an older playboat from the late 90s like a Redline or RPM and a canoe. Off of craigs list 400 bucks total. Good in white water up to class 4, and flat water from solo fishing to multiday trips with your sweetie.

yeah starting in 96 or so the play boats were getting shorter by a foot a year,I had a rpm and loved it ,had a redline and hated it

I would look for something longer than the current crop of play boats with a flat bottom and not too radical with higher entry lines but I still think OP is asking too much to be fishing from a ww kayak maybe taking a rod in a ww kayak and fishing from shore would work

Last saturday I was helping out at the local shops annual swap/used boat sale and I was asked to completely outfit a newbie (drytop & bottom /paddle/float bags/deck/booties/pfd ) with new gear ,I chose good quality and not top end and the bill was just over 2400$ but STILL only 900$ of that was the boat

I know my gear spec was good with well thot out choices and i explained why I was making each choice ,it was busy and I didnt do the boat part,I don't know if he is gona keep at it or where he is gona get instruction or what ,he was an older guy with a valid credit card and just paid the bill no questions asked

[PASKIINGSUCKS]

Not sure this is what you're looking for, but if you're still searching for a whitewater boat I know of one for sale. I'll be out in ohiopyle this weekend and my ex is selling her pyrhana recoil, it's basically brand new with skirt included and I think she'd let it go for around 400.

just thought I'd mention it. No you couldn't fish from it.

[PaSucks]

Naw, ended up getting a pyranha fusion for a pretty good price. Haven't had it in actual white water yet, but have floated a few slow rivers in the area. Will be taking some roll classes starting in a few weeks hopefully and hope to get going from there.

[MarsB]

^^that is perfect for the type of paddling you describe. Have fun!

[PaSucks]

Thanks Mars. So far it's been a lot of fun. So much nicer than the rec/touring boats I've rented. The outfitting is nice as hell and easy to use. It's hard to believe the difference in handling the skeg makes. With it deployed the boat is still a little loose but tracks straight well. With it retracted the thing will spin a full 360 degrees with a sweep stroke and respond really well to edging. Granted, I'm sure it isn't as nimble as a pure ww boat, it should really suit my needs well.

Superchief, I bought the boat from Jeff at Rocky Mountain (an aside: why is a kayak shop in New Stanton, PA, called Rocky Mountain Kayak?) so thanks for reminding me about him. I went to one of his roll classes a few years ago and forgot about him since then. I would have kept going but had eye surgery and couldn't get in the water for a few months after that. Also, BushwackerinPA didn't want to go anymore because he was scorned by a chick that regularly attended the class.

[sb]

Even though you got a boat I was going to chime in and say the Wilderness Systems Tsunami kayak in one of the shorter versions is a good do all style boat.

http://www.wildernesssystems.com/pro...mi_120_touring

[PASKIINGSUCKS]

Good to hear you found something man. Caught any fish from it yet?? My old town has a skeg too and I love it for flatwater paddling.


PSA to any other mags on the hunt, that boat I posted about above is still for sale and making it's way across the country. It's in wisconsin for a few days then pressing on toward colorado then might go as far as california. Brand new river runner and skirt for 400.