Plum Guide vs 2012 Dynafit Radical?

[1000-oaks]

Not in any rush to get tech binders (gotta wait for smokin' summer deals that fit my budget), but they're on my wishlist for next season. What does the collective think about Plum Guides vs the new Radical's with the "towers" that are supposed to cut down on pre-releases?

No doubt the Guides are/will be lighter, but is their retention any more consistent than the current FT line? Is anyone here a test mule for Dynafit and has some time on the 2012 models?

[Prodigy]

We've got a new Manaslu mounted up with a new Radical FT at the moment, if I get a chance to ski it soon I'll report back in. Boss skied it on Sunday and it was fine, step in is easier than ever, climbing aids worked well. Having played with the bindings on demo boards, I doubt there should be any problems with toe prereleasing

[kalisto]

bump...

Even curious on Guides vs. FT-12s...

Thoughts?

[toast2266]

"smoking summer deals" and "2012 dynafit radicals / plum guides" probably don't belong in the same thread.

[sb]

bump...

Even curious on Guides vs. FT-12s...

Thoughts?

Kind of waiting to see how the ski brake works out on the Guides but so far the Plum G is out in front of the FT IMHO.

[khyber.pass]

Here's a review of the Plum Guides.

The great thing about the Plums is the all-metal CNC construction. They sure are purdy....

[harpo-the-skier]

The plums weigh 6oz less than the Vertical ST and FT12. If I remember correctly, the Radicals weight more than the Vert ST/FT. Also, remember that the last time Dyna made a big change in their bindings (Tri Step) it was a colassal failure and they pretty much had to revert to their old designs.

[TeleThor]

The plums weigh 6oz less than the Vertical ST and FT12. If I remember correctly, the Radicals weight more than the Vert ST/FT. Also, remember that the last time Dyna made a big change in their bindings (Tri Step) it was a colassal failure and they pretty much had to revert to their old designs.

I don't have any personal experience with the Tri Step binding, but I've read about it over on WildSnow. In my eyes, it looks like the Radicals retain pretty much the same design from the standard Dynafit design (Speeds, Comforts, Verticals, etc) than the Tri Steps did. The Radicals look to me like a Vertical with several add ons that don't change the basic functionality. Hopefully just make it more burly and user friendly.

FWIW, ThinCover has been skiing on Plums lately and likes them a lot. Said they feel like they have a much more solid feeling retention than FTs. That being said, I'm perfectly happy with my FTs though.

[TeleThor]

Oh yeah, and I wouldn't bet on finding Plums or Radicals for "summer deal" prices for at least 1, maybe 2 years. Just look at how long it took for any sort of public discount on the Verticals.

[farmer]

plumb's will fit any ski that was previously drilled for dynafit. Radicals have the fucking retarded new hole pattern that really interferes with previous hole patterns. Not a problem if you're putting them on new skis, or switching from some other binding, but if you're cheap like most of us and buy your gear off gearswap, this might be an issue.

[stradissimo]

Either one looks like they'll handle a situation like this better. I had a little run in with a buried rock in the Lake Chutes (I should have known better.) and wiped out the toe piece of my FT12s. I'm small, 135 lbs, and I barely felt the impact. I was pretty surprised when my ski went bye-bye.
In the top picture you can see where the contact was. The second picture is the result. You'll notice that the metal tabs on the base plate are both bent back.
The Plum looks like it would rip out of the ski before something like this would happen.

[GeezerSteve]

Looks like the pin got pushed out when you hit the rock. Rare -- saw it 1X and we did a field fix with an 8 penny nail in my repair kit (which also included a complete toe fixture, so we were covered even if the nail fix would not have worked). Plum Guide pin appears to be recessed so maybe it's less prone to this sort of failure. Then again, we don't know how the Al alloy (Guide/Radical) would have held up in a collision with a rock. (My money would be on current Dynafit stamped steel). But, again, a collision of that pin on a rock is a really rare thing.

Wow, lots of Dynafit trashing since the Plum Guide hit the scene even though Dynafits have taken lots of abuse for years and failures are rare. Dynafit Speeds and Plum Guides weigh the same. Those Guides look nice and they may or may not prove to be superior. Time will tell. Al alloy is not indestructible, ya know.

Yeah, the Radical's conflicting screw pattern pisses me off. At least they could have spaced the screws so that one could put them on skis previously drilled for existing Dynafits.

ETA: strad, a PowerPlate might have protected that pin and prevented the failure

[gregL]

Anything will break if you hit it hard enough. I'm surprised you found all the pieces.

The first generation Tri-Step was a disaster because in a "knee fall" or even bending down to put on ski crampons the toe of pretty much any Dynafit-compatible boot (there weren't so many then) would hit the rocker lever and eject you. I surmised that their testing involved 3 Austrian dudes who were master skinners who never slipped who put in 3,000 meters a day for a month and pronounced it good to go. I suspect the new Radical toes won't be a problem, but I really hope the reliability of the flip-up heel risers is up to Dynafit standards.

It's suspicious that there hasn't been any mention of real-world use of the Radical series in any of the usual places like Wildsnow or Pistehors . . .

[stradissimo]

Anything will break if you hit it hard enough. I'm surprised you found all the pieces.

Surprisingly, when I recovered the ski, everything was still together. It popped apart when I tried to put the ski back on. The heel didn't align with the pins, so I torqued the boot to line it up and the toe popped apart.

I'm not trying to trash Dynafit, even if it sounds that way. It was a freak occurrence, with a predictable outcome. I don't complain when I trash a MTB pedal when I smack it into a rock, but some pedals handle rock hits better than others. I was just wondering what the collective thought about the new CNC Al toes, and if they would handle hits better or worse than the stamped metal.

Salewa hooked me up with a new toe at wholesale, which made me very happy. I'll probably be adding PowerPlates before next season.

[Jethro]

The Plums beat out the current FT's in my opinion, but the new radical seems awesome to me. The longer hole pattern will deal with the torque of the boot in walk mode when the toes are locked. The different heel lifts should be easier to use also.

[mc_roon]

Wow, lots of Dynafit trashing since the Plum Guide hit the scene even though Dynafits have taken lots of abuse for years and failures are rare. Dynafit Speeds and Plum Guides weigh the same. Those Guides look nice and they may or may not prove to be superior. Time will tell. Al alloy is not indestructible, ya know.

seriously, i am surprised at how many people are jumping ship from the FT12s to the plums in the past like 2 months. all tech bindings have weak points because of the weight tradeoffs; i see no reason to abandon FT12s for the newest and shiniest thing. and paying an extra hundred dollars+/- for a 6oz weight reduction just isnt worth it for 99% of people.

[GeezerSteve]

Surprisingly, when I recovered the ski, everything was still together. It popped apart when I tried to put the ski back on.

That's how it happened to my bud. Note that the two tangs on your plate are bent rearward -- so maybe the pin fell out because the hole was deformed. You must have really bashed it. Nonetheless, looks like it could have been fixed in the field with the 8d nail and a de facto hammer (e.g., rock, ice axe). Looking at the extent of the deformation on your binding, it's possible that the impact would have would have broken the Al alloy tang of a Guide or Radical. As GregL says, if you hit it hard enough. . . .

ETA: I just mounted $270 Speeds on my Stelvio XL's. Speed = same weight as Guides (maybe a bit less w/ B&D top plates), years of proven performance and less ramp angle so I don't need to shim the toe (JS says Guide ramp delta is halfway between the Speed and Comfort/ST/FT). Guides would have to deliver big to justify 2X+ the price. I've got beer to buy.

[LeeLau]

The first generation Tri-Step was a disaster because in a "knee fall" or even bending down to put on ski crampons the toe of pretty much any Dynafit-compatible boot (there weren't so many then) would hit the rocker lever and eject you.

It's suspicious that there hasn't been any mention of real-world use of the Radical series in any of the usual places like Wildsnow or Pistehors . . .

The Tristeps were dogshit because they're exarcabate the issue of ice under the toe lever. The toes were subsceptible to pre-release in ski mode so one would have to almost always ski in tour mode etc. I had one season on those POS'es and that was a long worried season.

As for testing, I'd rather someone else test the Radicals. I'm not at all excited about first-gen bindings so someone else can be guinea pig

seriously, i am surprised at how many people are jumping ship from the FT12s to the plums in the past like 2 months. all tech bindings have weak points because of the weight tradeoffs; i see no reason to abandon FT12s for the newest and shiniest thing. and paying an extra hundred dollars+/- for a 6oz weight reduction just isnt worth it for 99% of people.

People are gear whores. They want new shiny stuff and unconditionally love it if they've paid full pop - and I bet most people are paying close to full pop for Plums. But I'm just saying what most people know

[GeezerSteve]

^ ^ ^ words from a guy who understands that 8 y.o. Atomic REX are still fantastic spring stix [thumbs up]

Yeah, Dynafit layed an egg with the Tri Step toe. TS heel = Comfort heel so no prob there. One of the old timers around here (don't recall who -- one of Silas's buds, I think) has been skiing Tri-Steps on his beat-to-shit spring rig for years and they are going strong. I asked him about them and he had no idea he was skiing on a POS binding

[LeeLau]

I think those TM:exs are done. The bases are so thin they don't hold wax any more.

Don't get me wrong. The TriStep toes are skiable but I didn't like the fact that I had to use tour mode in them. It's kind of nice to have a choice.

Am holding out till Plum gets brakes out for next year till I take the test pair out for a spin

[Jordo]

The changes in the new Radical address the perceived needs of current non-users, bascially trying to capture people for whom burly asthetics are very important. Yeah, there are some folks breaking the Verticals, but, really, the thing wasn't broke to begin with. I personally really like the ability to go from tour to ski without taking the ski off, and this looks to be a hassle on the Radical. The Onyx style heel lifters just look like something else to snap off.

Which is all fine if Dynafit decides to run the two bindings concurrently, but if they kill the Vertical I'd buy Plums (if and when my pairs of Verticals ever die).

[GeezerSteve]

I'll be happy if Dynafit continues to make, and Salewa continues to stock, a full array of parts for the existing models

[1000-oaks]

Oh yeah, and I wouldn't bet on finding Plums or Radicals for "summer deal" prices for at least 1, maybe 2 years. Just look at how long it took for any sort of public discount on the Verticals.

Never expected to find deals on the new designs, just trying to gauge how the new Plum & Radical models compare to used FT's on Gearswap for half the money.

[marshalolson]

its interesting that all the nay-sayers on plum have generally not skied them

[marshalolson]

first off, i am looking for backcountry gear that is as dependable and can be skied the same as alpine gear.

i personally prefer the plum due to its retension. i feel the plum is more positive, more engaged, and overall more confidence inspiring at the far reaches of what tech bindings are designed to do and what abuse they are designed to hold up to.

i feel that, for me, once i took dynafits over 15-20 foot cliffs, with speed and landing to pitch, they would begin to release unpredictably. i feel the plum has better retention in the heel, in both directions, and have sent numerous 20-30 footers, and am ready to step it up on them to the 40-45 foot range confidently and see what happens.

the plum toe does ski a little stiffer and more precisely. its like the dynafit ft12 toe skis like a salomon 914 (which is great, for sure, and plenty for 99% of the world), but the plum skis like a 916 (maybe not differently to some, but improved for a few). the plum heel is slightly stiffer due to the mechanics of the heel pins, which seem to be better supported, and will likely prove to last a bit longer than the dynafit design.

so to recap- the plum is lighter, it is stiffer (for some), it retains better, and you don't have to bother to take the brakes off (which i would take off regardless). and well, i detonated a toe on the ft12 in 1/2 the days i have on my plums with no issue thus far.

just my opinion.

i have not skied the radical, but see it as going the wrong way with the dynafit design.