Intuition Liners: Determining Volume?

[spotted dogs]

I have read the post(s) extensively and unless I missed something I cannot figure how intuition classifies what is low/med/high volume in their liners. I guess I need clarification of what the volume refers to. So:
does low volume mean you have a low volume foot and need need a liner that takes up more space, or is it the other way round. low volume meaning the liner itself is less volume for a meatier foot.

so does the description of volume of the liner refer to the foot or the liner?

if it is the foot...how do you determine where your foot falls in the range of low/med/high volume.

and,
intuition recommended that I size up from my shell (use a 28 in a 27/27.5 shell), yet several of you talk about downsizing the liner....is their a standard answer to this?


thx,
P

[Wild4umlauts]

Volume refers to the liner, not your foot. Low volume liner would usually be used in a low volume boot.

I always upsize my liner one size from the shell.

[spotted dogs]

^^^^so a higher volume liner would theoretically/practically speaking, take up more room in a shell?

[Kim Jong-un]

^^^Yes. IMO 90% of the time with correctly sized boots you want the Med volume. I have ~1cm fit on my shell and the medium is perfect. Low volume liners have too much room in the ankle area in the same boot for me. And ditto on the size up one size.

[SgtSkidmark]

I assume you emailed Crystal at Intuition with the model/size of your boot, described your shell fit, and got a recommendation. I put a size larger in my boots and it's working out great.
*
Frankly, I think the numerical size and style of liner is more important than the volume rating. The ultralon foam, when heated, lofts up so much (and can compress a lot too), then sets up very firm and hold its shape. It really does a great job of evenly filling the spaces on both sides of the liner. Therefore, I would err on the side of "too much" foam instead of not enough. Only consider the low volume if you have plug boots or a super tight shell fit.
*
Oh, and have a cold one ready for the foot torture that comes with molding Intuitions.

[spotted dogs]

^^^I did, and got a size recommendation but no mention of volume...hence my questions. Now I just need to decide which style (wrap vs tongue).

The molding process does sound "cold one worthy" but worth it in the end nonetheless.

[Wild4umlauts]

In general style choice usually goes like this:

3-piece shell = Powerwrap
2-piece shell = Tongue

[marshalolson]

^^^gotta disagree^^^

take up volume in the front of the shell/ankle/stiffen/high instep = powerwrap

tour better/more shell feel/low instep = tongue

it all comes down to what you are hoping to GAIN from an intuition.

i would suggest the thickest (12mm) intuition to all highly accomplished/technically proficient skiers that are in a ~1.5 finger shell fit, and who is in the correct last shell

i would suggest a thin (9mm) intuition to anyone with a race fit (ie 1-.75 finger shell fit) or someone squeezing into a super narrow last shell (ie foot touches both sided of shell while shell fitting)

[marshalolson]

also the thickest liners will pack down the densest, if you can suffer through a couple days skiing them wicked tight and with minimal blood flow to the toes (ie cold toes), which means the highest performance/most precise skiing (in my opinion). would not recommend for everyone, but i would recommend the thickest liner you feel comfortable. when in doubt, go with the thicker of the 2 IMO.

assuming you are trying to add performance and precision rather that add comfort. if adding comfort, then shoot for the thinner of the 2 or whatever.

[spotted dogs]

so I am thinking powerwrap in the 28 size based on Crystal's recommendation. my only concern is how tall the cuff is? The a pretty standard size ( going into alpine boots..Atomic Hawx 110). I am looking for a snug fit and increasing my heal retention while taking up a bit of space in one foot that is a touch smaller than the other.

[marshalolson]

what street shoe are you in? or better yet what is your foot's mondo size (ie length in mm).

for example, i am a size 11 street in general one foot, 278mm/271mm feet, feet measure 105mm weighted/flat - c+ width on brannock, and ski a 98mm last boot. almost always in size 27 boots (though in a uk9/28 nordica doberman now), and use an intuition 27 (aka size 9). i have tried size 10 (aka 28) liners with VERY poor results. just way too much material for me.

your milage may very significantly


the powerwrap cuff is plenty high for any alpine boot.

[spotted dogs]

shell is 27/27.5. my street size is one foot 10, one 10.5 and I believe the shell is 100-102mm last.
I sent this info the Crystal at intuition and she recommended going with the 28.....

[Beyond]

Your shell is comparatively large for your foot size. The 28 would work fine.

[My Pet Powder Goat]

I just heated up and used a 28 PW in my Scarpa mobe 27.5 it was way to big to fit before cooking and I thought they wouldn't fit, heated them up and cranked them down and they are awesome now. The PW definitely takes up a lot more room in the ankle and shins then the luxury liner that came with. The one drawback is the PW do tour a lot stiffer, even with all the upper buckles undone

[spotted dogs]

The PW definitely takes up a lot more room in the ankle and shins

...
which is what i am looking for

[My Pet Powder Goat]

...
which is what i am looking for

...then the PW should be perfect. My calves seem to shrink and move up my legs throughout the ski season, enhancing my chicken legs, and I always have some dead space on the top of my forefoot-outside ankle. the PW filled all those places right in. def get more volume then you expect, the foam is very moldable.

[paj]

I've got a similar dilemma as the OP with my recent liner purchase. I got a pair of the Luxury liners size 29 for my 28/28.5 Lange comp 100's. I chose the LOW volume luxury's because I had done some research and even looking on wildsnow it sounded like the low volume liners were geared for low volume feet, which I have. I tried on the liners today and my feet were absolutely swimming, but the length felt good then I did a search on here and found this thread. So I got the opposite volume liners as I was planning on. I put it in my boot and buckled it down and with my buckle placement already maxxed out I still had to crank them down and there was not very good contact with my shins. Even after sticking my shin bang eliminators in there wasn't good shin contact with the tongue of the liner. I talked to Crystal for a few and she said about 50% of their customers get mixed up with the volume issue and they're about to clear things up online. She suggested swapping for the medium volume luxury, but that the tongue still isn't very thick, or switching to the pro-tours and having them put a thicker tongue in the liner since they are designed with that option. I like the luxurys because they are a little stiffer than the pro tours and they are going in alpine boots I'll use riding lifts. I was thinking the HIGH volume luxury's would be a good option as well because they will pack down some after days of riding, and they can also be shaved down a little if things are really unbearable, which I really don't see being the problem. My boots have a pretty substantial heel pocket and it's hard to gauge the distance of heel to shell, but I've done the pen test and it seems like a pretty close fit. My shoes size is 12.5-13 and I'm in a 28 ski boot, i think that translates to a size 10 with size 11 liners. It's tough trying to gauge what the best liner would be. I'm trying to match various types of liners with different volumes to my bony ass, narrow, long feet that will fit in my lange's well. Any help or advice is appreciated!

[Kim Jong-un]

^^ IMO your liner size 29 is correct. If it helps on deciding which volume to go with here's my experience.

My boot is a 98mm last with a tight fit--a THIN yellow highlighter is all I can fit in the heel on a shell fit (they're a bit thicker than a pencil). I have a MED volume Luxury (one size up) in the boot and its starting to pack out a bit more now with about 55 days on it.

So, with Intuitions you're kinda hitting a moving target.

The MED was a bit tight intially, I hit the sweet spot about 10-50 days in and now its just slightly packing out. I can remold them and that would tighten things up again, but the density does go up a bit each time you do this, and the liner shrinks a bit so I will wait. The "one size larger" as you have gives you this latitude though.

If I went HIGH vol initailly, I think it would be perfect now but there would have a bit more of an issue in the beginning.

[XXX-er]

I got chicken legs/ankles but with a wide fore foot and i think the powerwraps fit better around the ankle

I have a couple of sets of power wraps, I don't have intuitions with a tongue but I do have very similar heat moulded Conform'ables with a tongue and what I did was glue a slightly smaller than the tongue and down over the top of the foot skinny V-shaped layer of spenco to the tongue and it helped alot with tightening up the heal pocket

[paj]

Thanks for the responses ^. What is the desired fit supposed to be like in new liners before baking and stepping into the shells (if that question makes sense)? The length of the 29 low volume liners felt good, but laterally they were way too big, I was able to easily flop my feet around side to side; however when I stepped into the boot a lot of that feeling went away which wasn't unexpected. Is slight contact with the liner on both sides of the foot preferred? I've got it narrowed down to the pro tours with a thicker tongue, or HIGH volume luxuries, and if I really need more tongue thickness I can follow XXX-er's routine and solve that, or swing by the DPH and beg for mercy.

[StopMakingSense]

Thanks for the responses ^. What is the desired fit supposed to be like in new liners before baking and stepping into the shells (if that question makes sense)? The length of the 29 low volume liners felt good, but laterally they were way too big, I was able to easily flop my feet around side to side; however when I stepped into the boot a lot of that feeling went away which wasn't unexpected. Is slight contact with the liner on both sides of the foot preferred? I've got it narrowed down to the pro tours with a thicker tongue, or HIGH volume luxuries, and if I really need more tongue thickness I can follow XXX-er's routine and solve that, or swing by the DPH and beg for mercy.

You don't want a desired fit in the liners before you bake the liner. When you bake them they'll puff up like marshmellows. Just wait until you get to town and I'll take you to Inkline Foot to get them done. He'll tell you if it's going to work or not and it's only going to cost you 50 bucks for someone to fit them correctly. I just had my size 27 MV Luxury's done for my size 26 Zzero's and they were way too big for the boot, he still made it work with great result, but if he was going to fit me correctly he would have gone with a 25 or 26 liner. I'm done with doing anything boot related online, it just isn't worth the headaches of trying to save 10 or 20 bucks.

[1000-oaks]

I bought a pair of 27.0 Pro-Tours for my 26.5 Skookums (which have great-fitting molded Mobe liners) and the Pro-Tours seemed really thin & loose compared to the Mobe liners. So I sold 'em unmolded.

In my limited experience with Intuitions, they shrink/thin a little every time they're molded (even if they puff a bit temporarily while hot). I think the advice to err on the side of too much foam to start is a good one. If the unmolded liners aren't REALLY tight on your foot (in the shell) prior to the first mold, you're going to end up with sloppy boots after molding.

[1000-oaks]

I just heated up and used a 28 PW in my Scarpa mobe 27.5

Makes sense that touring would suck with Powerwraps, but do they ski much different than the stock Luxury liners?

[Wild4umlauts]

IMO if you can get your foot and an unbaked liner into your shell then your shell is too big.

If you value great performance over warmth then go with the correct size Power Wrap Plug for your foot and then match it to a very tight fitting shell.

If want more warmth (but still with good performance) then go with the Power Wrap and once again the correct shell fit for the slightly thicker liner.

The less liner you need between your foot and the shell, the more responsive the shell is going to be to your foot/leg movements. It's just that simple.

[klauss]

I put size 10 powerwrap plugs in my 27.5 garmont shamans. They definitively helped me, but I can still barely buckle the buckles with my size 10 street shoe feet and a 1.5 finger shell fit. I needed more room in my boots due to my thick feet so the plug liners worked well. I imagine these plugs are equivalent to the low volume dreamliners.

Have RS 130 wides now that I have not skied, so will see if I am going with another set of intuitions.