Review: Binding Freedom Inserts - The Swiss Cheese Experiment

[GoldenBC]

Would you? I would.

Hojis with Mtn bindings. Holes plugged with hardwood dowels that were roughed up for better bondage. Glued in with two part epoxy. The new mount is where the X’s are. So all four toe piece holes are interesting.

Would you use heli coils or tap a 3.6 hole and retain material by using just the screw? Or would you burn them and never ski again.

[bodywhomper]

People use various solvents. I steal my wife's ultrasonic jewelry cleaner, add a touch of Simple Green to the hot tap water and voila!

... Thom

So the citrus-based degreaser that I have is good enough?

[Dan816]

Why not drop heli coils or inserts into the existing empty holes? Is moving the binding 4mm ish that important?

[GoldenBC]

8mm. First mount was a Dynafit at 5mm back (as per Hoji method). Binding turned out to be broken, second mount is the MTN at 8mm back. The proposed mount is on the line (8mm forward from current mount) which seems to make a big difference on Hojis.

But the question isn’t about where to mount, it’s if you think the proposed method will fly.

[Dan816]

8mm. First mount was a Dynafit at 5mm back (as per Hoji method). Binding turned out to be broken, second mount is the MTN at 8mm back. The proposed mount is on the line (8mm forward from current mount) which seems to make a big difference on Hojis.

But the question isn’t about where to mount, it’s if you think the proposed method will fly.

Man, running all four toe screws in compromised locations would worry me regardless, but I think I like the idea of a heli coil overlapping more into the hardwood plug. Looks like a 3.6 hole would be kissing the old mtn holes which I don't like.

[galibier_numero_un]

So the citrus-based degreaser that I have is good enough?

I'd say so just rinse several times.

... Thom

[Westcoaster]

Working now to carve out time to insertification. Favorite solution for cleaning new BF’s inserts?

paint thinner. Heat em up to kick all the solvent off, a blow dryer works well.

[bodywhomper]

Thanks all. Using simple green cuz it is easier for me at the moment. Will use heat if I need.

[galibier_numero_un]

Thanks all. Using simple green cuz it is easier for me at the moment. Will use heat if I need.

For any of the recommended solvents, I'll use a small plastic jar, soak, agitate etc. Several refills with hot water to remove any schmutz, and done!

... Thom

[bodywhomper]

How deep do you all drilling and tapping? 9mm, 10mm?

[SoVT Joey]

How deep do you all drilling and tapping? 9mm, 10mm?

balls deep. Normally I stop before I see base material. Quit being cheap and go buy the right step bit from binding freedom or QK. Same goes with the helicoil guy above.

The depth is deeper then a 9mm depth of regular bits, you normally will drill all of the core down to the base material layer essentially.

[AlpiNord]

balls deep. Normally I stop before I see base material. Quit being cheap and go buy the right step bit from binding freedom or QK. Same goes with the helicoil guy above.

The depth is deeper then a 9mm depth of regular bits, you normally will drill all of the core down to the base material layer essentially.

This deep:



“Both Quiver Killer and Binding Freedom inserts are nominally 9mm length x 8mm (5/16″) diameter. The actual diameters for both average 7.85 mm. The lengths QK inserts average 8.55 mm & the BF inserts average 9.15. This is a minor 0.6 mm average difference which may be important for some but inconsequential for most. A little deeper hole will fill with epoxy to nullify any voids.”

I’d argue against relying on the stepped 1/4” insert and heli-coil bits to stop. With a 5/16” shaft and 1/4” tip, you only net 1/32” of shoulder. So if you use the stepped bits, still use a stop for extra insurance.


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Slidewright.com

[Dan816]

With a 5/16” shaft and 1/4” tip, you only net 1/32” of shoulder.

Exactly. It's not about being cheap, the stepped bits from qk/bf are inviting trouble. The shoulder of the bit is so insignificant that you definitely want a stop collar as well. At least that was my experience with the specialty bit for the stainless inserts so when it comes to the heli coils, I plan on just using my own bits+stop collar.

[Dan816]

http://www.slidewright.com/Bindings/drills_taps.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Thanks for the heli-coil info. I do like the ss inserts a lot, but I figured if the hole size and thread pitch happened to match the bits and taps that I've got, it could be worth it.

[bodywhomper]

This deep:

Thanks

[bodywhomper]

Gonna quiverkill my oldest kid’s skis at his request. How do I tell the difference between 2010 and older barons vs 2011 and newer barons?

TIA

[SoVT Joey]

Gonna quiverkill my oldest kid’s skis at his request. How do I tell the difference between 2010 and older barons vs 2011 and newer barons?

TIA

was that the year they went to the EPF? Your hole patterns will be wider if they are the new one. Find the two templates and measure the hole distances perpendicular to each other and then the bindings.

[bodywhomper]

was that the year they went to the EPF? Your hole patterns will be wider if they are the new one. Find the two templates and measure the hole distances perpendicular to each other and then the bindings.

Thank you! I vaguely remember epf, being a pinhead….

[bodywhomper]

I’m still going through the mental exercise of quiver killing my kid’s DD skis. Salomon z12 (mounted) and baron epf. He’s using these skis at least 2 days/wk and up to 4/week. I don’t want to leave them unmounted and on my bench if there is a problem.

Questions:
what do y’all do if the existing holes that you want to widen for the inserts are off just enough that the inserts don’t line up with the binding holes (even when doing a light wet mount when epoxy is curing)? Do you fill that hole with hardwood (dowel) and epoxy and then redrill after the epoxy has cured? Do you ideally mark your new drill hole with the binding installed except for that hole(s) that previously didn’t line-up enough? Or is there a more simple method?

Thanks

[galibier_numero_un]

The drill bit will wander to the path of least resistance, irrespective of where you center punch. Every means of plugging I've ever done has been softer than the top sheet / top layer.

A drill bit guide will keep the bit from wandering.

... Thom

[Westcoaster]

The drill bit will wander to the path of least resistance, irrespective of where you center punch. Every means of plugging I've ever done has been softer than the top sheet / top layer.

A drill bit guide will keep the bit from wandering.

... Thom

drill press and progressively stepping up the bit size is really the only way to do this without stress, IME.

[Cocximus]

I have an unproven theory a 4mm router burr would be a good way to do it. I will test it when I get the itch to move my trabs to my spring skis.

[bodywhomper]

I have a drill bit guide

[AlpiNord]

I’m still going through the mental exercise of quiver killing my kid’s DD skis. Salomon z12 (mounted) and baron epf. He’s using these skis at least 2 days/wk and up to 4/week. I don’t want to leave them unmounted and on my bench if there is a problem.

Questions:
what do y’all do if the existing holes that you want to widen for the inserts are off just enough that the inserts don’t line up with the binding holes (even when doing a light wet mount when epoxy is curing)? Do you fill that hole with hardwood (dowel) and epoxy and then redrill after the epoxy has cured? Do you ideally mark your new drill hole with the binding installed except for that hole(s) that previously didn’t line-up enough? Or is there a more simple method?

A bigger hammer.

How far off are you and how many of the holes are off? In some cases, if off a skootch, you can force the odd insert laterally vs needing to redrill. If most of the holes are good, the binding may be able to be used to set the good inserts and binding first, then force the other to align.

[galibier_numero_un]

drill press and progressively stepping up the bit size is really the only way to do this without stress, IME.

Everyone interacts with tools differently. A drill press is certainly a good option, but I wouldn't go so far as to implore someone to give up if they don't have one, or haven't experimented with positioning the work piece in the X-Y plane.

At the end of the day, any method requires practice, and what works for one individual won't work for another.

... Thom