Review: Binding Freedom Inserts - The Swiss Cheese Experiment

[MultiVerse]

Bumping this thread because of all the goodness it holds and to ask if anyone knows if inserts are stocked locally anywhere along the Wasatch and/or if there are any good shop recommendations that excel at installing Dynafit and inserts? Black Diamond was the place to go before I mounted the last two sets of skis myself... are they still?

[auvgeek]

Since you're versed in mounting them yourself, why not just order the inserts and tools from bindingfreedom.com and do them yourself? Not to be a dick, and maybe you have a reason for not wanting to, but it's really not that hard to do.

[MultiVerse]

Since you're versed in mounting them yourself, why not just order the inserts and tools from bindingfreedom.com and do them yourself? Not to be a dick, and maybe you have a reason for not wanting to, but it's really not that hard to do.

Two reasons. One, I'd like purchase locally to save time if possible because I would like to reuse an existing pair of holes on the toe so mounting first with screws and then pulling the bindings off to remount with inserts is not much of an option from a strength standpoint if I were to use the skis while waiting for the inserts to arrive. And two, these are race bindings with no adjustable heal which I've never done before so experience with a precise installation would be good.

The concern is the being off by a mm issue mentioned earlier in this thread although that's probably an issue with or without inserts. Perhaps a better question is, does anyone have experience with inserts and race bindings?

[SouthCentralShralper]

With 6 pairs of skis having inserts, I've had a few issues throughout the season... this being the biggest. I've had at least half a dozen inserts back out while trying to remove the machine screw. I attribute this to not degreasing them prior to installation. IMO, this is a MUST! I've been able to degrease, re-epoxy and reinstall. Also, threadlock is TUFF! I used the brand Jon sells on his website, and I know he says a little goes a long ways... I never used more than a drop, but found that with lots of installing and removing, I stopped using threadlock because there seemed to be enough on the screw or in the insert. To date I have never had a problem with a screw loosening! Inserts are a great product, but a little fickle and you need to take some time during installation to do a fine job. Definitely more involved then a typical binding mount.

[jondrums]

I never used more than a drop, but found that with lots of installing and removing, I stopped using threadlock because there seemed to be enough on the screw or in the insert. To date I have never had a problem with a screw loosening!

I've found the same - the initial loctite continues to work even after removing and re-installing a few times.

A trick for removing loc-tite stuck screws: apply a "jerking" motion rather than a slow steady torque.

[miahw2828]

good to know, getting ready this weekend to make my first switch after going the insert route and would be seriously bummed if the inserts came out with the screws. i'm definitly gonna have to be careful as i was generous with the loctite

[good4nothing]

Random insert stoke:



Also, these skis are rad...

[FineGrind]

Doesn't your boot midsole change between the two binding mount positions? Seems like it would move back a bunch in the dynafit position?

[good4nothing]

Doesn't your boot midsole change between the two binding mount positions? Seems like it would move back a bunch in the dynafit position?

My alpine boot is a 310 BSL while by touring boot is a 318 - the above pictured pattern puts each boot's midsole right on the line.

[1000-oaks]

IMHO, Vibra-tite VC-3 is a more appropriate threadlocker for ski inserts than Loc-Tite. You let it dry on the screw before putting the parts together, and it remains a bit soft & gummy. More like the plastic spot on snowboard binding screws.

[Bird Blaster]

Thanks for the stoke guys

This thread has me thinking.... my rens w/ dyna/Salomon inserts

[good4nothing]

IMHO, Vibra-Tite is a more appropriate threadlocker for ski inserts than Loc-Tite. You let it dry on the screw before putting the parts together, and it remains a bit soft & gummy. More like the plastic spot on snowboard binding screws.

dude, you are consistently a source of awesome technical information.

just saying.

[Bird Blaster]

Has anybody done a STH/Dynafit radical FT mount?

Anybody have suggestions other than just keep playing around with it? The best I could get that looked like good clearance is to mount the STH at a BSL of 310 mounting it 2cm forward of where I want it and then use the heel for the 12mm I need for my BSL and then the Radical FT at centre for the proper BSL. Or does the Dynafit also have a fair bit of adjustment fore/aft - I don't have a binder to look at. I am just spit-balling here...

Also 1cm the minimum distance suggested?

thanks

edit: did some reading... johndrums anything coming on a solly/radical plate??

[grinch]

i thought i saw something on one of the bf threads but can't seem to find it now. just doing up my 3rd and final pair and one hole has a heli coil installed. they're mounted for dynafit so i wanted to get them drilled initially with a jig. i was hoping for no helicoils but oh well. i managed to get the screw out of the helicoil by applying heat w a souldering iron, now i need to get the helicoil out so i can install the helicoil sized for the final insert. has anyone had to take a helicoil out to do this(a good brass one) ?
thanks

[1000-oaks]

dude, you are consistently a source of awesome technical information.

just saying.

Lol, happy to help. Here's the stuff, I've been using it on my screws for inserts: Vibra-tite VC-3 Have apply it again after a few on-and-off cycles, but it takes all of 30 seconds to redo a whole set of insert screws. Not cheap ($18 on Amazon plus $5 shipping), but one little bottle has way more goo than you can use during the five year shelf life.

VC3 doesn't "lock" the screws in place, it just adds resistance to turning the screws. The screws still turn smoothly, but there's plenty of resistance and no way in hell they'll loosen on their own.

[1000-oaks]

I've had at least half a dozen inserts back out while trying to remove the machine screw. I attribute this to not degreasing them prior to installation. IMO, this is a MUST! I've been able to degrease, re-epoxy and reinstall.

I poured all my inserts in a small metal camping bowl and poured enough gas on them to cover, then swished them around for awhile to dissolve the cutting oil. Did one gas change and then let them dry overnight; they came out clean as a whistle.

Burning the leftover oil-tainted gas is probably better for the environment than letting it evaporate.

[6CA7x4]

I poured all my inserts in a small metal camping bowl and poured enough gas on them to cover, then swished them around for awhile to dissolve the cutting oil. Did one gas change and then let them dry overnight; they came out clean as a whistle.

Burning the leftover oil-tainted gas is probably better for the environment than letting it evaporate.

I like acetone...

[1000-oaks]

^^^ yeah, even better, or mineral spirits.

[AlpiNord]

As do chain cleaners, citrus degreasers/wax removers and even Dawn dish soap.

[Jubelale]

hey jondrums, any idea when you'll be getting more inserts in stock?

[Bird Blaster]

bumping for question:

Any word on a sollyfit plate that holds radicals?

[Spyderjon]

VC3 is waaay better than Loctite & avoids any risk of the Loctite possibly 'attacking' any plastic it comes in contact with.

In the UK I sell the VC3 in small sachets. I can't see it on Vibratite's website but they do offer it - IIR it's about a dollar a sachet & each sachet contains enough to easily coat one set of screws.
Attachment 115591

[jondrums]

to answer a few of the questions above (sorry I'm on the board less in the off-season)

Next season, inserts are getting a revision with a few minor goodies. More solid thread-form up near the topsheet (just for you - 1000oaks ), cleaner and more shallow installation slot, and they'll ship cleaned and ready to install. I don't want to order any more of the old version, so they'll be out of stock for another couple of months while I tool up for '12/13.

Fall 2012 should see Radical compatibility on all plates, pending selling all my old stock.

I plan to carry vibra-tite next season. Also a bunch of other goodies which I don't want to announce until I have samples.

[Bird Blaster]

sweet +1 on the sollfit(radicals) !!! put me in for 1 or 2!!

[6CA7x4]

I plan to carry vibra-tite next season.

Good move, I had some issues with loctite this season.