Review: Binding Freedom Inserts - The Swiss Cheese Experiment

[Tom_H]

Most Soly's of that vintage will crack the plastic there. The heel track is notched out for the screws though, and the screw head lands on metal, so in my experience cracked plastic there doesn't mean the bindings are dead. I've been running a pair of heels with worse cracks on all four screws for well over ten years with no issues (on and off skis many times with inserts). ymmv and all

[bodywhomper]

Thanks! That’s really helpful. And gives some hope!

[waveshello]

I found a nice solution for shortening inserts that protrude above top sheets. I got some second hand skis that had several inserts that were standing slightly proud.

I got one of these 3/8" pilot tip drill bits and ground the sharp edges off the flutes on the pilot tip. The cutting surface of the bit is more or less 90 degrees, like a counter bore, but this is much cheaper than a counter bore. I'm chucking it up in a drill press, might work in a drill driver too but a careful hand would be needed!

[HellgateBasement]

I think this is the right place for this question...

I have some Line sick day 104s currently mounted with Attack bindings. I want to make this my go-anywhere do-anything travel ski so I'm debating either A) putting inserts in the current holes and drilling another set for Zeds, and traveling with 1 pair of skis and 2 sets of bindings or B) just plugging the holes and remounting for shifts. I'm already hoarding an extra pair of both shifts and Zeds, so cost isn't really a factor. Thoughts on the better solution? What's the weight penalty for 2 sets of inserts+Zeds vs. Shifts?

Thanks.

[PeachesNCream]

I think this is the right place for this question...

I have some Line sick day 104s currently mounted with Attack bindings. I want to make this my go-anywhere do-anything travel ski so I'm debating either A) putting inserts in the current holes and drilling another set for Zeds, and traveling with 1 pair of skis and 2 sets of bindings or B) just plugging the holes and remounting for shifts. I'm already hoarding an extra pair of both shifts and Zeds, so cost isn't really a factor. Thoughts on the better solution? What's the weight penalty for 2 sets of inserts+Zeds vs. Shifts?

Thanks.

I tried to do the 1 pair of skis with inserts for an alpine binding and a lightweight pin binding (k2 reckoner with pivots and alpinists). If you do really good job mounting the inserts, it doesnt take that long to swap between them, but it ended up being more time than I wanted to do while traveling, if you do an okay job installing the inserts, its can be a real pain. I ended up just buying a roller bag that can fit 2 pairs of skis, 1 touring, 1 alpine and having a hybrid boot and have been pretty happy with that.


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[HellgateBasement]

I tried to do the 1 pair of skis with inserts for an alpine binding and a lightweight pin binding (k2 reckoner with pivots and alpinists). If you do really good job mounting the inserts, it doesnt take that long to swap between them, but it ended up being more time than I wanted to do while traveling, if you do an okay job installing the inserts, its can be a real pain. I ended up just buying a roller bag that can fit 2 pairs of skis, 1 touring, 1 alpine and having a hybrid boot and have been pretty happy with that.


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Fair point on the quality of the mount being a real factor. And I agree the hybrid boot is key to making either scenario work - I would also be trying to transition from 2 dedicated boots to a Roxa r3 as a part of this experiment.

[PeachesNCream]

Fair point on the quality of the mount being a real factor. And I agree the hybrid boot is key to making either scenario work - I would also be trying to transition from 2 dedicated boots to a Roxa r3 as a part of this experiment.

Even with a good mount, it was too much time and effort for me personally, but people do it


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[Full Trucker]

I think this is the right place for this question...

I have some Line sick day 104s currently mounted with Attack bindings. I want to make this my go-anywhere do-anything travel ski so I'm debating either A) putting inserts in the current holes and drilling another set for Zeds, and traveling with 1 pair of skis and 2 sets of bindings or B) just plugging the holes and remounting for shifts. I'm already hoarding an extra pair of both shifts and Zeds, so cost isn't really a factor. Thoughts on the better solution? What's the weight penalty for 2 sets of inserts+Zeds vs. Shifts?

Thanks.

Haven't you read the internet? You'll die if you ski Shifts.

I used to do the inserts for inbounds/touring bindings on a single pair of skis dance, but made the shift to Shifts as the binding of choice on my only pair of skis when they came out. Now I have more of a quiver that includes a dedicated touring setup, but still have the Shifts on my DDs because A.) I already had them and B.) it makes for a good traveling option. As others have said, swapping between two sets of bindings can be a bit of a pain. It's probably a two beer job, at least by hand. Maybe faster with power tools, but TBH I don't know that I'd trust using an impact driver or drill to do the job, plus that's another thing you're carrying in your bag on flights.

You say "extra pair of both shifts and Zeds" — so you already know how each binding skis and tours? Or no? Personally, while I prefer the lighter weight of a tech binding on a longer tour I've also done some longer missions (hut trips with a heavy pack and long skins in, a couple of 14ers) with the Shifts and they were fine too. So for me, the weight penalty of a Shift on a ski trip where I might be doing a day or two of touring in a week of resort skiing is manageable. Throw in sidecountry laps where skins might be required, and the answer being Shift is even clearer to me.

But that's me, man. You do you.

[RTsucks]

Anyone think it's a bad idea to use low heads on sth2 mnc toe? Or would you grind a flat head? I'm assuming flat heads have a 90 degree angle from shank to head flat, so would you just get a longer m5 and grind a little off the flat part of the head?

[RTsucks]

I think I was underthinking it. I'm gonna throw a nut in a drill chuck, screw in a long enough flat head and trim the flange or whatever it's called into small head.

[arild]

I think I was underthinking it. I'm gonna throw a nut in a drill chuck, screw in a long enough flat head and trim the flange or whatever it's called into small head.

I've done this with great results.

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[thecazdog]

Anyone got screw types and lengths for Strives? Happy to be the beta tester to sort it out if not.

[normie17]

for whatever its worth, i've used 3m DP420 NS for the inserts because it can withstand temps from waxing. I also found an 8mm stop collar is really helpful for the drill depth using the centering block thing.

[normie17]

this helps not over tighten the screws. https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Zt1GL0cVA2Q

[rfconroy]

this helps not over tighten the screws. https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Zt1GL0cVA2Q

Nah you dont need that, just go with German torque spec

[normie17]

inserts are awesome if you travel a lot or have 10 minutes and don’t mind swapping clamps. I can fly with 5 pairs of skis, 2 pairs of bindings, and all my gear in a 2 pair rolling bag.

But after working in a shop, I really don’t mind swapping bindings and I’m very comfortable with setting everything. If I didn’t have a technician background and wasn’t as mechanically inclined, there is absolutely no way I’d fuck with them. my first mount I did I was asking myself if it was worth it. After fighting for an hour to get it perfect, I learned a lot. It takes me about 20 minutes to do a insert mount now, which is probably why I keep doing them.

have your setups lasted a long time? I'm struggling to find a reason why I should mount traditionally now after using these. I like how I can always torque wrench them too check. But traditional mount they creep out overtime and nothing you can do.

[Kootenai]

have your setups lasted a long time? I'm struggling to find a reason why I should mount traditionally now after using these. I like how I can always torque wrench them too check. But traditional mount they creep out overtime and nothing you can do.

What torque value do people use for inserts?

[halliday]

What torque value do people use for inserts?

Hand tight, then giv'er a bit more. Tighten until you think you can't do any more but not enough to strip the insert but if installed correctly the insert won't move. Check after every few days of skiing. Repeat if needed. That's my torque spec.

[The Iron Horse]

Hand tight, then giv'er a bit more. Tighten until you think you can't do any more but not enough to strip the insert but if installed correctly the insert won't move. Check after every few days of skiing. Repeat if needed. That's my torque spec.

+1

[Westcoaster]

What torque value do people use for inserts?

https://www.fastenermart.com/files/m...en_torques.pdf

4nm is conservative with stainless fasteners.

[normie17]

What torque value do people use for inserts?

3nm, BF site said 2-4 i believe so i just split the difference.

[SoVT Joey]

have your setups lasted a long time? I'm struggling to find a reason why I should mount traditionally now after using these. I like how I can always torque wrench them too check. But traditional mount they creep out overtime and nothing you can do.

ya. They have lasted. I have no hesitation about any of them, but I also trust myself and how I mount. I make sure to use plenty of epoxy. I always allow 24-48 hours to cure. I don’t ever use a torque wrench, I always just use plenty of vibratite and tighten all the way. Making sure the whole depth is correct and tapping correctly are the most important.

[RTsucks]

May be a little off thread...

Anyone ever used inserts on narrow skis, 63-65mm...what binding?

[SoVT Joey]

May be a little off thread...

Anyone ever used inserts on narrow skis, 63-65mm...what binding?

any binding can be used with inserts. Narrow skis need a narrow binding, like a race binding or pivots. There are only a few bindings that are too wide for skinny skis. Marker Royals wouldn’t work on a 65-ish mm ski.

All skis that I ski in that size range have race plates, and a lot of race plates have insert style holes, or pre drilled holes.

If for some reason I wanted to put inserts in a race ski, I would in a heart beat. Construction is way burlier then any of the skis I have inserts in. would I put inserts in an intermediate ski in that size category? It’s depends on the construction.

[RTsucks]

Well, I think I have pivots somewhere. Don't know, but would have to double check, that sth2 are narrow enough. Don't know anything about race bindings. I bought two pairs of 00/01 ogaska skis recently because they came to $170 w/ shipping. Wasn't thinking about gripwalk and mount width.