Review: Binding Freedom Inserts - The Swiss Cheese Experiment

[GoldenBC]

Not sure about your first question, but while they're most interchangeable - BF is about 0.5mm longer in length, so they need to be drilled and tapped deeper

Inserts are so 2010


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Agreed. I bought them in 2010 and never used them. Just added 6 skis to the quiver so that’s all I can afford.

[GoldenBC]

Not sure about your first question, but while they're most interchangeable - BF is about 0.5mm longer in length, so they need to be drilled and tapped deeper

Did BF ever do this? When I first bought inserts ~5 years ago only QK had the kits assembled for specific bindings, for BF there was a chart to help you pick out screws but that was all.

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That’s why I was confused. But I still have bags of labelled kits for sth and pivots with bindingfreedom on the sticker.

[SoVT Joey]

Inserts are so 2010


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inserts are awesome if you travel a lot or have 10 minutes and don’t mind swapping clamps. I can fly with 5 pairs of skis, 2 pairs of bindings, and all my gear in a 2 pair rolling bag.

But after working in a shop, I really don’t mind swapping bindings and I’m very comfortable with setting everything. If I didn’t have a technician background and wasn’t as mechanically inclined, there is absolutely no way I’d fuck with them. my first mount I did I was asking myself if it was worth it. After fighting for an hour to get it perfect, I learned a lot. It takes me about 20 minutes to do a insert mount now, which is probably why I keep doing them.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

inserts are awesome if you travel a lot or have 10 minutes and don’t mind swapping clamps. I can fly with 5 pairs of skis, 2 pairs of bindings, and all my gear in a 2 pair rolling bag.

But after working in a shop, I really don’t mind swapping bindings and I’m very comfortable with setting everything. If I didn’t have a technician background and wasn’t as mechanically inclined, there is absolutely no way I’d fuck with them. my first mount I did I was asking myself if it was worth it. After fighting for an hour to get it perfect, I learned a lot. It takes me about 20 minutes to do a insert mount now, which is probably why I keep doing them.

Oh, I’m mechanically inclined and have no problems mounting bindings and done many inserts for myself and others but I found that I just never fiddled with swapping bindings even though it isn’t a very complicated or long process. Used bindings are relatively inexpensive so I don’t use inserts anymore. In addition, I don’t like buying used skis with inserts. Just a personal bias I guess.


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[Cocximus]

I often swap my vipecs from ski to ski in under 15 minutes. Drill with clutch set low is key.

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[rfconroy]

Words of wisdom on the Hardware from QK vs. BF. BF typically sells machine screws with Pozi drive, whereas QK sells stainless hardware with No 2 philips, which in my experience is super easy to strip.

Personally, I run blue zinc plated steel hardware with Torx drive, and have not had any long term issues.

[Cocximus]

How much torque do inserts need? Phillips should be more than enough.

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[SoVT Joey]

How much torque do inserts need? Phillips should be more than enough.

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i think the problem is the wrong Phillips bit some times. The screws are soft but not that soft. I have spare screw packs that I order every time I order. I’m more apt to lose a screw then strip one and I usually replace the screws after swapping them a couple times. But I haven’t had a problem yet and I make sure to use plenty of vibratite.

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

No torque to an insert install. Barely snug. Vibratite is key.

[Muggydude]

That’s not how bolted joints work. It’s quite important to torque properly for the strength of the joint/mount and preventing screws from loosening. Vibratite is good, or wrap the screw threads in plumbers tape


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[Cocximus]

PTFE (plumber) tape does exactly the opposite of what you want.

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[lowsparkco]

Biggest benefit I’ve found is travel. Also, I guess I saved money on a pair of bindings for the clown shoes although that wouldn’t probably pencil considering the difficulty of two insert mounts plus expenses. If I’m in the garage switching bindings I don’t mind because it’s going to be worth it.

As for torque on the Phillips, I agree with previous post, make sure it’s the right bit, and use a drop of blue loctite and don’t go crazy. I’ve yet to strip one and it’s nice to have something that fits a little ratchet driver for the kit.

That’s a third advantage, you can take an extra tech binding for multi-days and switch in the field if necessary.

[dgilligan02]

Hey anyone holding a few extra BF inserts? Need to check how many I have around but know I don’t have the 16 needed.

[adamweld]

Hi folks, I went for it and most everything went well. But, I didn't center punch deep enough or was just careless and somehow one of the toe piece mounts is slightly crooked.

Time to fill and redrill those holes - is it worth doing the dowel thing, or should it be fine to fill the hole as is without drilling larger? I have a drill press fwiw.

More importantly, which epoxy is best if filling with fiber chop? I have the Hardman variety set, orange is probably strongest but I don't know how it machines.

Cheers

[Lord Thomas]

Hi folks, I went for it and most everything went well. But, I didn't center punch deep enough or was just careless and somehow one of the toe piece mounts is slightly crooked.

Time to fill and redrill those holes - is it worth doing the dowel thing, or should it be fine to fill the hole as is without drilling larger? I have a drill press fwiw.

More importantly, which epoxy is best if filling with fiber chop? I have the Hardman variety set, orange is probably strongest but I don't know how it machines.

Cheers

If you can find it Devcon 10110 is the toughest epoxy I know of. Was developed for the mining industry and is now the standard for bedding gunstocks. Might want to do a test redrill to see if your bit will cut through it. 10110 has a shit ton of pulverized steel in it. A general heads-up for anyone who wants to try it, read the fucking directions, not mixed at 1:1

[dschane]

If your plan is to overlap the new hole with the old one, I personally would fill the hole with wood and epoxy - Hardman is good, West G-Flex is great. You don’t need to enlarge the hole, and I wouldn’t. You can get skinny but robust dowel rods from hobby/craft shops or online. That’s what I use. If you’re doing more than one overlapping hole, you might move the toe piece and drill new, clean holes. Opinions will vary.

[galibier_numero_un]

The biggest challenge you'll face is the drill bit wandering due to the different density of the plugged and virgin area.

A drill press might help. I'd fabricate a drill bit guide out of scrap metal, clamp it in place, and drill.

... Thom

[rfconroy]

If your plan is to overlap the new hole with the old one, I personally would fill the hole with wood and epoxy - Hardman is good, West G-Flex is great. You don’t need to enlarge the hole, and I wouldn’t. You can get skinny but robust dowel rods from hobby/craft shops or online. That’s what I use. If you’re doing more than one overlapping hole, you might move the toe piece and drill new, clean holes. Opinions will vary.

For re-plugging holes, or trying to repair a busted hole I shy from g flex since its significantly lower strength than other epoxies on the market, and has some flex to it. Personally, you should go for a low viscosity epoxy that you can add fillers like kevlar pulp to. I typically go with West Systems stuff, and the slowest cure at that.

[Cocximus]

I have to redrill some holes I fucked up mounting my trabs in a rush. It's a carbon top sheet so I am worried about drill bit wandering. I was thinking to use a <4mm carbide burr in a drill press to start the holes.

[Dan816]

For BF heli-coils, does anyone know what size hole to drill and what type of tap to use? Anyone got a hack for a heli-coil installation tool?

[galibier_numero_un]

For BF heli-coils, does anyone know what size hole to drill and what type of tap to use? Anyone got a hack for a heli-coil installation tool?

Man! SVST doesn't make this information really available. Tongnar says the bit is 15/64". I would verify this with a test before drilling into skis.

https://www.tognar.com/helicoil-inse...r-alpine-skis/

The search for tap size continues.

Of course you need to buy from maggot @alpinord at Slidewright.

.... Thom

[galibier_numero_un]

I found this post from @altis on March 10, 2012:

The screws for all alpine bindings are defined by ISO6004.

The thread is known as ST5.5x1.8 (defined by ISO1478). The 'ST' part stands for Self Tapping - so taps are pretty hard to find outside of skiing circles. The '5.5' part is the major diameter of the thread (i.e. 5.5mm) and 1.8mm is the pitch. The nearest imperial equivalent is #12 type-AB (ANSI B 18.6.4) which is sometimes marked M5.3 x 1.81. This is so close that these taps are often used for skis.

Here's URL to the thread: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...-Helicoil-info

From my experience installing conventional helicoils (not skis), I'd call the insertion tool to be necessary. Perhaps someone like @spyderjon or @1000-oaks can comment further.

... Thom

[AlpiNord]

http://www.slidewright.com/Bindings/drills_taps.jpg[/IMG]

[bodywhomper]

Working now to carve out time to insertification. Favorite solution for cleaning new BF’s inserts?

[galibier_numero_un]

Working now to carve out time to insertification. Favorite solution for cleaning new BF’s inserts?

People use various solvents. I steal my wife's ultrasonic jewelry cleaner, add a touch of Simple Green to the hot tap water and voila!

... Thom