Why You're Addicted To Bread, and The Myth Of "Complex Carbohydrates"

[XtrPickels]

As a health care professional, this thread brings the lulz

[XtrPickels]

There is fruit juice in skittles, thank you...

Fructose is bad for you due to insulin-related issues. Most juices are junk and to be avoided.

No, it's because I'm out, at a restaurant, to eat food that they serve me, and I'm fucking hungry. If they put a basket of roasted broccoli in front of me, I'd eat the shit out of that before my steak came. It just so happens they put bread out, so that's what I eat.

I'll go ahead and agree with that.

Eat a fucking sandwich and get over yourself.

I'll agree with this too. Too many people are so damn focus on their answer that they forget to realize is only a small piece of the puzzle

Wheat is full of anti-nutrients like WGA and phytate, which binds to vitamins and minerals and actually decreases the nutritional value of what you eat along with it! The only meaningful nutrients in flour are there because the government requires them to be added ("enriched flour") -- because otherwise people die of deficiency diseases like pellagra.

As far as the rest of your post, you need to read the third article. The first commenter raises exactly your points, and the author responds to them



We've been teaching that for nearly forty years -- and it has been a miserable failure. That approach doesn't work, period. America is fatter and more diabetic than ever despite decades of anti-fat and pro-"complex carb" propaganda -- and the trend started right about the time we decided fat was evil.



But why do they eat way too much? It's not like people don't know that eating lots of food makes them fat...but they can't help themselves, because they're HUNGRY.

And why are they hungry? I'll quote the article, because it's spot-on:

I'd say the typical American diet has enough fat and protein to satiate the crap out of their "addiction". If anything I'd say that grains have less of an impact than soda. Especially considering soda is consumed as a stand alone product while grains are often found inside a Macdonald's wrapper.

I'm always a little concerned when someone comes along and tells me that a staple of the human diet for the past several thousand years is actually bad for me. It seems that, regardless of what I want to eat, some expert on the subject can tell me why its horrible for me and that I'm going to die an unpleasant and probably obese death. Example: This guy warns about how drinking too much water is dangerous.

Doing anything too much is bad and yeah, a shit ton of water isn't so good for you.

You're correct that no one can make up their mind as to recommendations. Its unfortunate, but we need fad diets so people can get rich for spewing misinformation. However, grains really aren't that great for you. Will eating them kill you? Hell no, but they aren't helping the situation much either.

Fats GOOD.
Butter GOOD.
Bacon GOOD.
T-Bone GOOD.
Mhhhhhhh.

(Not pokin fun, I follow a very anti-processed-foods diet. Meat & whole eggs every day, cheese and veggies and fruits. The whole anti-carb/anti-sugar craze is overhyped IMHO, yet it's spot-on for the average fattie. Paleo goes to far against grains imho, are there even any solid human studies that show those evilz 'antinutrients' actually hurt us? That's besides my point though, I do try to keep grains to a minimum just because grains are usually part of highly processed foods. It's the processing that's evil, rather than the product itself. Processing is what strips nutrients from everything we touch, reducing it to its chemically simplest form. We're then forced to fortify with vitamins, minerals, and other crap, but we still don't understand how everything works, so we fortify with the wrong things, remove the healthy nutrients, and add unhealthy aberrations back in. Hmmmm... where do I even want to go with this? Just sayin, eat meat, eat eggs, eat products straight from the farm and you'll be healthy!)

Anti-carb is infact, just the newest fad. I'll agree low-processed is best.

I like pizza and beer. I'm not obese or dead. I also like bourbon. I'm still not obese or dead. Spats sounds like he needs to get laid more. Getting laid more is better for you than not eating bagels. I've done the research on this. True story.

If you ain't got no complaints, keep on keepin' on.

Here's the problem.

Whole wheat bread IS NOT whole wheat bread.

The crap you buy at the store labeled "whole wheat bread" is maybe 10% whole wheat, full of sugar, leavening & softening chemicals, fortified with shit we aren't sure we need, not fortified with other shit we most likely need.

Then there's Whole Wheat Bread, baked at home from 100% whole wheat flour & bran straight from the stone mill, with wheat germ & a bunch of seeds mixed in and water & yeast.

One is called whole wheat bread, the other IS Whole Wheat Bread, and there's a difference in nutrient profile which makes a difference in health.

Its funny how much "high fructose corn syrup" is in bread.

Bread consumption in France is declining as fast as obesity rates are rising.
What does that tell you?

Processed shit is the evil. Bread is fine. I'll keep eating my baguettes thank you.

(good) Bread, (good) cheese and (good) wine. That's all you need for a healthy diet

By the way if it has more that 4* ingredients it's not bread

* Flour, Yeast, Salt, Water

Well, it actually doesn't tell you anything.

Read the 4-hour body by Tim Ferriss.

I see you've bought into someone's money making scheme, eh?

My rapid weight loss came at 24 days straight of skiing in December, so I already broke one of those rules.





The 'just say no to drinking carbs' is just wrong. It totally eliminates beer.

[XXX-er]

This argument wouldn't be necessary if one never got fat in the first place. If we teach moderate carb consumption with a balanced intake of protein, fat, and other dietary needs that matches a person's lifestyle (dictated by caloric consumption based on daily activity levels) starting at an early age, much of our obesity problems would diminish. People just eat way too much in reference to their activity levels. If you were eating in a way to match your activity level, your body wouldn't be converting carbs/fat intake to stored fat to begin with.

.

I would agree with the above

eating less carbs is a good thing

hell eating less is a good thing

[XtrPickels]

My theory, which is supported by the research I’ve seen, is that by maintaining such a diet, our ability to metabolize body fat simply atrophies—because it’s never used! This is why dieters feel so desperately hungry, and why it’s hard to reduce ‘carbohydrate’ (= sugar) intake: we’ve got plenty of energy available in the form of body fat, but our body’s ability to metabolize it has atrophied—so we are metabolically starving in the midst of plenty. It’s like having a pantry full of canned tuna and discovering you’ve lost the can opener.

In regard to the above quote.
I spend a lot of time determining the caloric expenditure of exercising people. Part of this is the ratio of carbohydrate to fat being metabolized. In general it is completely correct that "what you eat is what you burn". We do see, however, with "proper" training, that people can become "fat burners" and alter that ratio with no significant change to their diet.

[BurnHard]

2) favour plant proteins over animal proteins

Fuck that. Animal proteins are the tastiest. And as healthy as plant proteins.

[BurnHard]

Anyway. In regard to the above quote.
I spend a lot of time determine determining the caloric expenditure of exercising people. Part of this is the ratio of carbohydrate to fat being metabolized. In general it is completely correct that "what you eat is what you burn". We do see, however, with "proper" training, that people can become "fat burners" and alter that ratio with no significant change to their diet.

You don't happen to work at the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine on Mapleton hill? Got lactate & FUEL test done there several times, that med-tech shit is so damn sick! (I'm a heavy carb burner during exercise, despite a high fat low carb diet)

[BCMtnHound]

Fuck that. Animal proteins are the tastiest. And as healthy as plant proteins.

Agreed. Totally. But generally more costly to produce and with higher potential health incidents (BSE anyone?) Hence the reference back to #1. So I live farther north where animal protein is <edit> comparably more plentiful

[jon turner]

Wheat is full of anti-nutrients like WGA and phytate, which binds to vitamins and minerals and actually decreases the nutritional value of what you eat along with it! The only meaningful nutrients in flour are there because the government requires them to be added ("enriched flour") -- because otherwise people die of deficiency diseases like pellagra.

I didn't say that the bagel was good for you per se; I was saying it's considerably different than a bag of skittles, and he oversimplified the issue. I did a quick search on anti-nutrients, and they are found "at some levels in almost all foods."

We've been teaching that for nearly forty years -- and it has been a miserable failure. That approach doesn't work, period. America is fatter and more diabetic than ever despite decades of anti-fat and pro-"complex carb" propaganda -- and the trend started right about the time we decided fat was evil.

The problem isn't the diet, it's the lack of follow-through on the diet. Not to say, it couldn't be refined or improved, but most people just don't do it. Just because something is taught, doesn't mean people follow it. Most people eat massive quantities of food that aren't recommended by the standard USDA diet and avoid much of the food that is.

But why do they eat way too much? It's not like people don't know that eating lots of food makes them fat...but they can't help themselves, because they're HUNGRY.

And why are they hungry? I'll quote the article, because it's spot-on:

Why do people do drugs and smoke cigarettes that they know are bad for them? It's because it's easy or it tastes good or feels good or whatever. People don't always make the choices that are best for their health, and given the massive amounts of sugary sweet foods available to us, it's hard to resist.

My recommendations for good health:
1) try to have the majority of the food you consume be produced locally (or at least be able to be grown in the local environment with as little additional input as possible - i.e. not hothouses, GMF's, etc);
2) favour plant proteins over animal proteins, consuming as varied a diet as possible, with consideration to #1;
3) of #1 and #2, cook it as little as possible, just enough to make it palatable/safe/digestible;
3) exercise every day. Just walk the dog for a hour, it doesn't have to hurt;
4) enjoy your treats. Nothing wrong with skittles, or a dram of whiskey, or herbal aroma therapy, now and then;
5) have fun. Engage in something for that makes you sweat and laugh as often as possible. At least a couple times a week. Preferably for an entire day. Ski, screw, ride, piggy-back your child, etc.

One size does not fit all, health and beauty execs can blow me, all 'ism's are schisms designed to divide and conquer for some else's benefit.

Pretty much agree completely on all of this. Stay local, varied, as close to fresh as possible, and with minimal chemical inputs, and balance your calorie intake with an equivalent activity level.

[advres]

I see you've bought into someone's money making scheme, eh?

Do you know anything about Tim Ferriss? Sure he wants to make money but the book is only partly about diet. Seriously, read it, I'll ship it to you and get back to me.

Do some research on the man before you pass judgment.

I personally, since December 20th have lost 4 inches off my waist, 1" off each thigh and .5" of my arms. I dropped 10 pounds body weight and have increased lean muscle (ie... I lost more than 10lbs of fat in 22 days). I'm doing a write up and timeline when I am finished with pictures of meals, weight totals, inches, exercises, etc that you are welcome to read when I am done. And guess what, I eat more than I ever have in my life on a daily basis. All these changes were from reading Tim's book. Yup, fucking crackpot.

I'm not saying his methods are for everyone but they are helping me.

Can you do this with a 53lb Kettlebell? 83 reps in 5 minutes?

[Yukonrider]

Can we get some cliff notes?

[concretejungle]

Can we get some cliff notes?

Bagels are worse than crack.

[Verde]

with "proper" training, that people can become "fat burners" and alter that ratio with no significant change to their diet.

I'd be interested in reading more about this. Care to elaborate?

[hutash]

Do you know anything about Tim Ferriss? Sure he wants to make money but the book is only partly about diet. Seriously, read it, I'll ship it to you and get back to me.

Do some research on the man before you pass judgment.

I personally, since December 20th have lost 4 inches off my waist, 1" off each thigh and .5" of my arms. I dropped 10 pounds body weight and have increased lean muscle (ie... I lost more than 10lbs of fat in 22 days). I'm doing a write up and timeline when I am finished with pictures of meals, weight totals, inches, exercises, etc that you are welcome to read when I am done. And guess what, I eat more than I ever have in my life on a daily basis. All these changes were from reading Tim's book. Yup, fucking crackpot.

I'm not saying his methods are for everyone but they are helping me.

Can you do this with a 53lb Kettlebell? 83 reps in 5 minutes?

Odds are this time next year you will be as big or bigger then when you started.

[lrjcrj]

People (fat, metabolically challenged, whatever) don't eat because they're hungry, they eat because they're greedy - big difference. Remember, it's not you, it's your metabolism! BS!

Eat less, move more...

(I almost include myself in this after xmas excess)

[advres]

Odds are this time next year you will be as big or bigger then when you started.

The most I have ever weighed is 158lbs. I am down to 144lbs right now. Will I gain weight lifting? yes. But will I have more body fat? unlikely.

[yippeekiyayMF]

In regard to the above quote.
I spend a lot of time determining the caloric expenditure of exercising people. Part of this is the ratio of carbohydrate to fat being metabolized. In general it is completely correct that "what you eat is what you burn". We do see, however, with "proper" training, that people can become "fat burners" and alter that ratio with no significant change to their diet.

my key to health is to not take advice from pickles...hell, any food in general.

anytime food talks to you, it ain't good for you.

[Hugh Conway]

As a health care professional, this thread brings the lulz

As a TGR member, every thread brings the lulz

[Tippster]

Can you do this with a 53lb Kettlebell? 83 reps in 5 minutes?

No, I can't. Neither can you nor 99% of the rest of the douchebags who find that "important."

I also can't run a marathon (much less an Ultra-marathon,) hold my breath for 5 minutes, Swim the English Channel, climb Everest, bench 500lbs, Hit Chad's gap switch, session Wolverine Cirque all morning then go to work, and a shitload more things that are impressive to many.

Why?

Because I don't care to. If it was important to me I would train and hope to be able to do it. As it is I don't give a flying fuck what that bald dude can lift over his gleaming noggin, nor how many times he can do it.

Spats seems to have found the Atkins Echo Chamber.

[splat]

A piece of toast has more nutrition in the butter you spread on it than the bread itself.

[toast2266]

A piece of toast has more nutrition in the butter you spread on it than the bread itself.

so the butter really does make it better!

(note to self, put lots of butter on everything)

[advres]

No, I can't. Neither can you nor 99% of the rest of the douchebags who find that "important."

I also can't run a marathon (much less an Ultra-marathon,) hold my breath for 5 minutes, Swim the English Channel, climb Everest, bench 500lbs, Hit Chad's gap switch, session Wolverine Cirque all morning then go to work, and a shitload more things that are impressive to many.

Why?

Because I don't care to. If it was important to me I would train and hope to be able to do it. As it is I don't give a flying fuck what that bald dude can lift over his gleaming noggin, nor how many times he can do it.

Spats seems to have found the Atkins Echo Chamber.

You're right, I can't and don't plan on training to do that. But, I do care to be healthier and made a conscious choice to eat better, work out more often and drink less. I don't see that as a negative. I, even at my light weight for my size, wasn't happy with my body. No depressed, just knew I could do more for myself.

In my last 22 days I have felt better than I have in a long time (mentally and physically), have more energy, sleep less and feel more awake during the day. Plus, I haven't "not done" anything I normally did before my diet change and additional exercise.

Really, I don't want to be a big bulking guy but I also don't want to be a fat lazy fuck. Different strokes you know. And any parent who doesn't take an interest in getting healthier for their kids sake (at least) is a POS.

[Tippster]

I think that's great, really I do. Keep it up!

My point was more about the "look how awesome he is for lifting a heavy thing many times." Although quite the feat of strength for Festivus it's not all that important in the grand scheme of things if he could only do 40 in 5 minutes instead.

[jfost]

Why is everyone so down on juice? I think it beats the nutritional profile of soda... I've been giving our 3yo 50/50 juice/water since she could drink out of a cup and people keep telling me it is bad. I guess milk or plain water would be better, but most of what I've seen focuses on the high caloric intake angle. What am I missing?!?

[Art Shirk]

Why is everyone so down on juice? I think it beats the nutritional profile of soda... I've been giving our 3yo 50/50 juice/water since she could drink out of a cup and people keep telling me it is bad. I guess milk or plain water would be better, but most of what I've seen focuses on the high caloric intake angle. What am I missing?!?

I think juice is fine, as long as its just that, juice, not some cornsyrup bomb. You giving your kid capri sun or not from concentrate pure shit?

[Mazderati]

Fruit juice and seltzer water as a substitute for sodas works out pretty well.