Plum guide tech binding

[thin cover]

To my knowledge I am the only one with this heel plate. I am sure others can chime in. My contact there has since left so having trouble finding out about the heel unit. Since I was the first reported failure I think I was sent these as a result of that incident.

I dig my plums and definitely like the way they perform over my ft-12's that being said I will never have them or my ft's on steep firm terrain ever again.

[GeezerSteve]

Just how many failures are we talking about here? 10? 1% of units sold? I don't know what the answer is but I'd bet its on par with Dynafit.

It's not just the numbers. It's the nature of the failures and the fact that the product has been out there for only one season. I've never heard of a sheared pincer hole on a Dynafit -- that failure rate is 0% to my knowledge -- nor a catastrophic heel spindle failure except on Comfort/ST/FT with lots of miles on it. TMK, 0% failure rate on Speed/Classic heel spindles -- and we're talking millions and millions of verts on those.

Still too early to pass judgment one way or the other IMV.

[clintm]

I also have the new heel plate. Got this in the batch that escape route got a few weeks ago. Did not know of the purpose until now. The manual I got (in french) does not have it listed/pictured. I removed the screw to save weight

I'm also digging the plum koolaid so far. Concerned about these failure stories though, but they just look so sexy...

[dynamike]

We're at five reports of various failures in this thread. Christ I've broken two pair of Dynafits. Time will tell I suppose.

[1000-oaks]

It's a compression member under the boot heel which lessens the load on the heel pins. Some of us have experimented with DIY versions. It's not specific to wide skis.

Ah yes. Seems like the ideal heel support would be a height-adjustable AFD: a bit too low and it won't do any good (can't imagine there's much flex in a tech binding heel), too tight against the boot sole and it will hinder horizontal release.

[univurshul]

ive read your posts and damn you is super informed and opinionated
can't find the stoke though
You gots?????

That's probably because singularity with ski bindings is a matter of perspective and how you ski, what you ski.

I'm not stoked. never will be. I'm coming from a place plagued with drought and injuries, forced to travel and deal with pain to ski. A fucking binding isn't the only game in town. Your last day on Earth won't be wrapped up in bindings. It will be something else.

But when a machinist wakes up everyday with the intent to make skiing better, obviously, that is something to admire. So, yes I'm biased. But only toward ethic and good will of riding mountains.

my last post. feel free to bash the hell out of it.

[skifishbum]

That's probably because singularity with ski bindings is a matter of perspective and how you ski, what you ski.

I'm not stoked. never will be. I'm coming from a place plagued with drought and injuries, forced to travel and deal with pain to ski. A fucking binding isn't the only game in town. Your last day on Earth won't be wrapped up in bindings. It will be something else.

But when a machinist wakes up everyday with the intent to make skiing better, obviously, that is something to admire. So, yes I'm biased. But only toward ethic and good will of riding mountains.

my last post. feel free to bash the hell out of it.

no pics of machine shop then????? I love shops any kind hell i like cellphone photos
you ever travel to ski here i gots pain issue tools just as i have quite a few at binders and skis

[Ivan Oder]

I also have the new heel plate. Got this in the batch that escape route got a few weeks ago. Did not know of the purpose until now. The manual I got (in french) does not have it listed/pictured. I removed the screw to save weight

I'm also digging the plum koolaid so far. Concerned about these failure stories though, but they just look so sexy...

Probably some part of the new brake attachment system?

I think they would be awesome if they made interchangeable mounting plates that fit both the duke and dynafit patterns. (Like an integrated dynaduke.)

[auvgeek]

I think they would be awesome if they made interchangeable mounting plates that fit both the duke and dynafit patterns. (Like an integrated dynaduke.)

Yes! Particularly for those of us who have already drilled skis for the Dynafit/Guide pattern. But I guess a DYI plate wouldn't be terribly difficult.

I'm gonna be pissed if I have to buy a new pair to get brakes. But that's probably what's going to happen...

[sqikunst]

I'm gonna be pissed if I have to buy a new pair to get brakes. But that's probably what's going to happen...

In my mind if this is what eventually happens = weak development team with little forward thinking. No this is not a criticism of the product that they have brought to the market but what it is, is a criticism on their shortsightedness in terms of developing their product package as a whole. Things like hole patterns are a commitment. When they decided to go with the Dynafit hole pattern they were committing to people spending (for many of us) large amounts of money on a design template that we thought would have room for improvement and/or development. If they did this because they wanted to piggy back some sales off Dynafit then its shortsighted IMO. If they have to change the hole pattern to make a brake system work = Fail. They should try any and every configuration of brake on the current whole pattern even if it means a new base plate (with the same hole pattern) before even thinking about changing it. In this thread alone we have a solution in re-milling the heel unit with a longer heel plate and using a Dynafit brake. Let them do their own brake system and see if people by it but also give consumers the option to use the tried and tested Dynafit system. So where do we stand when they bring out a brake system and their widest brake available is 100mm. A lot of us are fucked!! This is TGR where wider and longer is better ....

Dynafit brakes can be modded using Salomon brake arms so we freaks can have 130mm brakes. Modular designs are always best. I have very few pieces of equipment that I do not mod in some way or another. Everyone has their quirks but to have companies have us invest in systems that they are not willing to develop on is a cheap shot to loyal consumers. If dynafit said hey guys guess what we are changing our whole pattern which has worked for 15+ years. How would we react then??

I read somewhere in this thread that they might use a Duke whole pattern but as of right now it being unconfirmed this is just a statement. If they use a Duke pattern they are FUCKING stupid. The binding is an obsolete cheap piece of shit MARKER "Dreck". It is on its way out and the Salomon/Atomic, rumored Fischer/Tyrolia bindings are gonna clean house. I know it was the first and all but it was not a fully developed product with numerous short comings. To even think about using a Duke pattern is sacrilege to any sort of innovative/creative/smart/word of choice product development.

Give consumers choice and let the market regulate itself. Its a bitch in terms of product and development costs if they bring their own brake out and its a POS and everyone used the Dynafit brakes. Not giving consumers an option and then if the brake system is a POS hurts you company even more IMO. Because now you have an awesome binding with a POS brake and that is what people will thing about when buying PLUM. Why buy this system with a POS brake when Dynafit as a solid system??

[skifishbum]

more stoke

I think Olympus is stoked on this 5.1 lb rig

[sqikunst]

The whole rig weighs

5.1 lb rig

FUCK!!!!

Nice, props to that

[skifishbum]

The whole rig weighs

FUCK!!!!

Nice, props to that

pretty sure that would be 10.2 lb per rig
but hell I watched old trackhead ski out of timp on one ski ya never noes

[skis_the_trees]

Just because the Plums are aesthetic in their machined Al glory doesn't make them immediately superior to a good tech binding that uses a variety of materials i.e. steel, Al, plastic, Ti, etc. I think they *look* bomber but it doesn't necessarily translate into a safer/stronger/durable/more bomber binding -- that's a function of the overall product design. I'll freely admit that I'm biases towards nicely machined techy stuff... but it doesn't make it better defacto.

Shop stoke for SFB: (going to move my 2nd vertical milling machine into the basement next weekend, I'm stoked about that)

[Ivan Oder]

Yes! Particularly for those of us who have already drilled skis for the Dynafit/Guide pattern. But I guess a DYI plate wouldn't be terribly difficult.

I'm gonna be pissed if I have to buy a new pair to get brakes. But that's probably what's going to happen...

I'm holding off buying any tech / touring bindings at the moment to see how the MFD shakes out, what Plum does for brakes, and the Salomon/Atomic Duke killer.

For now, my ski has FKS on wood screws, but depending on how things shake out in the next year, I may end up putting inserts in for FKS and one of the above.

Luckily Tecnica knows what they're doing and has offered us burly boots with interchangeable soles. Now if we could get a binding company to start thinking like that...

Edit: I can still tour, I have Dukes mounted on another pair of older skis, but at this point I am looking to get rid of the Duke and I am unwilling to put Duke holes in my newest skis.

[sqikunst]

Luckily Tecnica knows what they're doing and has offered us burly boots with interchangeable soles. Now if we could get a binding company to start thinking like that..

^^ That is a pure illusion. Shells are dope liners are crap. They are offering a 98 last next year but you have to by tech soles extra (70usd). Tecnica will milk you like any other company. I have no qualms with their shells but they cheap out on the liners and make you buy extras in order to get the product you want. Sound familiar??

[1000-oaks]

If they use a Duke pattern they are FUCKING stupid. The binding is an obsolete cheap piece of shit MARKER "Dreck". It is on its way out and the Salomon/Atomic, rumored Fischer/Tyrolia bindings are gonna clean house. I know it was the first and all but it was not a fully developed product with numerous short comings. To even think about using a Duke pattern is sacrilege to any sort of innovative/creative/smart/word of choice product development.

You just lost all credibility, wtf does a mounting pattern have to do with the function of the Duke binding? It's a drill pattern, nothing more, nothing less. What drill pattern do YOU recommend then? If folks want a nice large drill pattern that works great on fat skis, why not use something that fits the bill and already exists? Why come up with a different pattern that has no advantage over the Duke pattern, just for the sake of being different? That's not "innovative". And if going with the Duke pattern allows some guys to use the Duke jig or just swap bindings without having to drill new holes, what's the problem with that?

If you want Plum to match the new Salomon pattern fine, that makes sense too, just like using the Duke pattern makes sense. But to just bitch and offer no solutions is no help to anyone.

[sqikunst]

You just lost all credibility, wtf does a mounting pattern have to do with the function of the Duke binding? It's a drill pattern, nothing more, nothing less. What drill pattern do YOU recommend then? If folks want a nice large drill pattern that works great on fat skis, why not use something that fits the bill and already exists? Why come up with a different pattern that has no advantage over the Duke pattern, just for the sake of being different? That's not "innovative". And if going with the Duke pattern allows some guys to use the Duke jig or just swap bindings without having to drill new holes, what's the problem with that?

If you want Plum to match the new Salomon pattern fine, that makes sense too, just like using the Duke pattern makes sense. But to just bitch and offer no solutions is no help to anyone.

How do I lose cred cause of an opinion. They have been on the market for what 3 years. Hole patterns are one of the most important criteria's when designing a binding because it is a commitment not just for them but for comsumers. For them to be thinking about changing a hole pattern in as little as three years is weak. Why?? They should have considered future development of their binding when choosing to go with the Dynafit hole pattern in the first place. Bindings with longevity have the same hole pattern for years. Your hole pattern is your foundation to a binding. Its not only costs consumers but also to shops. Jigs cost money and to have a company constantly change their hole pattern is a pain in the ass. Props to you if you have dukes (if this is even the hole pattern they decide to use) and can then switch out between the two bindings thats cool.

Give consumers choice and let the market regulate itself. Its a bitch in terms of product and development costs if they bring their own brake out and its a POS and everyone used the Dynafit brakes. Not giving consumers an option and then if the brake system is a POS hurts you company even more IMO. Because now you have an awesome binding with a POS brake and that is what people will thing about when buying PLUM. Why buy this system with a POS brake when Dynafit as a solid system??

One of my big points is that Dynafit brakes can be modded to be fatter, PLUM might not bring out brakes that fat and modding might be out of the question.

I read somewhere in this thread that they might use a Duke whole pattern but as of right now it being unconfirmed this is just a statement. If they use a Duke pattern they are FUCKING stupid. The binding is an obsolete cheap piece of shit MARKER "Dreck". It is on its way out and the Salomon/Atomic, rumored Fischer/Tyrolia bindings are gonna clean house. I know it was the first and all but it was not a fully developed product with numerous short comings. To even think about using a Duke pattern is sacrilege to any sort of innovative/creative/smart/word of choice product development.

This is all new tech. Some of it may prove itself and some might not and disappear off the market but Dynafit will be Dynafit. If it aint broke dont fix it. Just a small scenario, now that Salomon/Atomic is bringing out their own binding and tyrolia apparently has one in the works we will likely see 2 brand new bindings and hole patterns coming onto the market in the next 3 years. Those 2 brands are going to try and address every problem that consumers have complained about the duke. Three bindings on the market leaving Marker with 6 year old technology. Now one thing Marker is famous for is changing hole patterns, what happens when the Marker Duke is no longer competitive and Marker needs to design a new binding but they cannot get the old hole pattern to work for any of their new designs to compete with the new generation of bindings. They will of course have to change it. If Salomon could have gotten a STH pattern to work well I think they might have used it. That is what was crossing my mind when I heard they might (rumored) use a Duke pattern. If they want to increase the amount of transfer on wide skis one of the easier things to do before changing hole pattern would be to put wings (straight up just make it wider) on the base plate. Hole pattern stays the same better transfer on wide skis.

This was my main point:

When they decided to go with the Dynafit hole pattern they were committing to people spending (for many of us) large amounts of money on a design template that we thought would have room for improvement and/or development. If they did this because they wanted to piggy back some sales off Dynafit then its shortsighted IMO. If they have to change the hole pattern to make a brake system work = Fail. They should try any and every configuration of brake on the current whole pattern even if it means a new base plate (with the same hole pattern) before even thinking about changing it.

Plus I did offer a solution = let us choose. Modding for a Dynafit brake is not hard. A lot of us who want PLUM's with brakes but with a Dynafit hole pattern. All it needs is a longer base plate and flanges to hold the brake down while in touring mode. PLUM could go a long way by keeping their design standard and modular.

[splat]

Should there be limitations in the evolution? Gear has never been obsoleted the way it is these days with a niche market feeding frenzy encouraging innovation at a fairly breakneck speed. Someone's gonna pop up with the right setup real soon with the mods you guys are screaming for and your reviews (along with the euros at skipass) will spin it into popularity. Jeezuz Christ, at least I hope they read this forum...

[sfotex]

pretty sure that would be 10.2 lb per rig
but hell I watched old trackhead ski out of timp on one ski ya never noes

......................

[splat]

Whatchya got there, softex?

[Ivan Oder]

^^ That is a pure illusion. Shells are dope liners are crap. They are offering a 98 last next year but you have to by tech soles extra (70usd). Tecnica will milk you like any other company. I have no qualms with their shells but they cheap out on the liners and make you buy extras in order to get the product you want. Sound familiar??

Who gives a shit about price. If it is engineered well and allows me not to spend $700 on another tech boot, they can have my money.

The liners are not that bad. I've spent about a week so far this season in them and there's nothing that makes me hate them although I am sure an Intuition would be much better.
Discounting for sizing errors and different foot shapes, there's nothing terribly 'wrong' with them that would cut your day short.

Back to the topic at hand, crappy bindings can ruin your day far more seriously than a crappy liner.

I'm pretty sure most of us would be happy with Dukes if Marker just stop being cheap and fixed some of the critical problems with that binding.
People who complain about the stack height, the weight, the taking it off to change modes and the icing need to stop being pussies about
those things and start complaining about quality of the pivot pin, lever pin, slop, and the AFD instead. They can do this, but I am sure some
executive asshole figured out they could save five cents on some of those parts and make everyone buy a new binding when it explodes.

I think tech binding makers should realize that in the USA market we are not all weight weenies like in Europe and don't mind hauling a few extra
ounces of brake and metal if it means we can have a better run both inbounds and out. Inbounds means brakes. People who complain that tech
bindings pre-release all the time on anything that isn't powder need to stop being pussies and make sure their bindings are mounted with the
correct spacing and that the fittings in their boots aren't already fucked to begin with, and then stop bitching about getting ejected while
trying to zipper-line bumps. They need to start complaining about what it feels like to tomahawk with beater cords or chasing a ski down
something icy with no brakes. Tech binding manufacturers need to realize that not every approach and line in the backcountry is bottomless
pow and build in some strength. (Props to Dynafit power towers, but I take that back and fuck them for changing the hole pattern on the radical without making it better.)

Everyone who buys one of these new tech/DIN interchangeable sole boots will consider buying a beefy tech binding if they see it as a direct replacement of their shitty Dukes.
If it fits previously drilled holes, then people who are religious about the number of mounts in their skis won't bitch, and those of us that like inserts will rejoice.

If tech binding companies were really smart, they'd offer mounting plate options, one with Duke holes for fat skis and one with Dynafit holes for skinny skis, and make brakes an option.

So when you purchase your binding you could select which plate you want and what size brakes you want or none w/beater cords if you hate yourself.

They could charge extra for those things and people would offer up their firstborns and take out second mortgages and not care if it WORKS.

Right now I am of the opinion that the reason why we don't have these options isn't a problem of engineering, but rather more symptomatic of the monopoly some companies have on particular bindings.
It's more profitable to make a shitty product and have everyone buy the upgrades and new bindings when it breaks.

Hopefully a little competition will fix this...

[sqikunst]

If you scraped the little blob of glue hanging out off the binding you could propably get down to 4.03lb ..... What ski is that??

Who gives a shit about price. If it is engineered well and allows me not to spend $700 on another tech boot, they can have my money.

The liners are not that bad. I've spent about a week so far this season in them and there's nothing that makes me hate them although I am sure an Intuition would be much better.

^^I agree, as of right now I am going to ski the stock liners out till they just don't work anymore. They show their true shittyness on hard snow where you just don't feel a strong connection to your skis. Got a day in some boot deep pow on them and they were ok. I did cook them first though so now they are snugger on my skinny ass feet. Sorry for the thread jack no back to bindings.

If tech binding companies were really smart, they'd offer mounting plate options, one with Duke holes for fat skis and one with Dynafit holes for skinny skis, and make brakes an option.

Nice, simple, clean and cheap for them to produce = Win

[Ivan Oder]

Nice, simple, clean and cheap for them to produce = Win

I bet jondrums could make some plates... toughest part is brake integration and how to get them to deploy properly when needed but also stay up and out of the way when touring.

I sure hope Plum doesn't do something half-assed with their next binding and include elastic bands in the box...

[srsosbso]

If you drop your iphone do you blame Apple?

Skiing a blue square is like dropping a phone? hahaha, dude, WTF?!

ive read your posts and damn you is super informed and opinionated
can't find the stoke though
You gots?????

haha, skifishbum, you are the most quotable guy on TGR, awesome