Taos Expansion?

[R_&_R]

Minnesotas/Lorelei chutes-YES!
West Basin-HELL NO! Way too much traffic would go down the good stuff like waterfowl.
Kachina-no, the nicest stashes are up there, don't let the gapers find them!

[skieurmalade]

"A kachina (also katchina or katcina, pronounced /kəˈtʃiːnə/; Hopi: katsina /kətˈsiːnə/, plural katsinim /kətˈsiːnɨm/) is a spirit being in western Pueblo cosmology and religious practices.[1]...

A kachina can represent anything in the natural world or cosmos, from a revered ancestor to an element, a location, a quality, a natural phenomenon, or a concept."

-Wiki [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kachina[/ame]

I bet it would be called a Kachina Quad.

Jesus I hope that peak stays virgin. NM is rad because we don't do that stuff.

[strawjack]

North American was much much better prior to them cutting the "trail ". The trail isn't cut fall line at all, and all the good terrain in there is left beyond the ropes still. It gets a lot of ski school classes in there and ends up scraped and bumped quickly. Again back to their view on the whole mountain...rope everything!! If they had lightly gladed (or just left alone) the entire area between long horn and al's it would have been such a better decision. It will be interesting to see how they deal with the MN's, as that's much wider and shorter...they're almost forced to just open the entire thing....but who knows.

interesting. i don't remember the ropes being so prevalent except for heading up the ridges. maybe they were there and i just don't remember 'cause we ducked 'em too often i guess....hooking the trollers w/ tunes didn't hurt when it came to our brazenness. i do remember down by the MN area was roped...but i thought that was just to preserve my stash

[frandor55]

The Minnesotas is an excellent Idea.
The lifts to Kachina and W Basin are unneeded.

Taos has large amounts of tree'd areas that are now closed. A slight amount of thinning could really make for some dynamite runs on both the front and backsides.

For instance there are at least 5-6 smallish tree sections around lift 4 and 7 that are either closed or are too dense with small trees. A little thinning and there would a lot more stashes that would have very east access.

[R_&_R]

If North Americans deserted, just poach to the left of the ropes.

[TBS]

I guess I don't understand the problem with the plans, given that the Blakes need to earn money too. They aren't targeting the core bro-brah soul skier demographic, that stay in their vans or the Abominable Snowmansion, and get their passes off Liftopia - they would go broke.

Nope, they target the Tejano and New Yorker wanna-be rad skier tourists that stay slopeside, eat at the restaurants, take lessons and buy stuff in the shops. Those folks keep the bullwheels turning at TSV.

The glading opens up some quality terrain that won't get used by much of their target market. The Kachina chair has been part of their USFS-approved plan since the '80's - yes, change does come slowly at TSV.

The chair up West Ridge opens up terrain that is plenty knarly for the average tourist. That will keep the "advanced gapers" in the lower part of West Basin, so the truly core can get more fresh laps in Kachina.

And there is still plenty of hike-to terrain, just less hiking. I guess
if you feel really strongly about earning your turns, you can still hike the ridge to either Kachina or Wonder Bowl.

[alTAos]

I guess I don't understand the problem with the plans, given that the Blakes need to earn money too. They aren't targeting the core bro-brah soul skier demographic, that stay in their vans or the Abominable Snowmansion, and get their passes off Liftopia - they would go broke.

Nope, they target the Tejano and New Yorker wanna-be rad skier tourists that stay slopeside, eat at the restaurants, take lessons and buy stuff in the shops. Those folks keep the bullwheels turning at TSV.

The glading opens up some quality terrain that won't get used by much of their target market. The Kachina chair has been part of their USFS-approved plan since the '80's - yes, change does come slowly at TSV.

The chair up West Ridge opens up terrain that is plenty knarly for the average tourist. That will keep the "advanced gapers" in the lower part of West Basin, so the truly core can get more fresh laps in Kachina.

And there is still plenty of hike-to terrain, just less hiking. I guess
if you feel really strongly about earning your turns, you can still hike the ridge to either Kachina or Wonder Bowl.

I agree with the view on the demographic, and that they have to make money, you have to support that...but the ridge lift doesn't support this. It accesses by far the gnarliest terrain on the mountain. Heavy timber through wonder bowl (not including). Kachina is pretty mellow skiing minus hunzi and dahl-bradines. I agree, this can appeal to the general public. And the glades are great, but the lift to the ridge doesn't do this. The argument is that it will access the new glade down to the bottom of 8. So I hear that, but still think it's a bit ridiculous.

[skieurmalade]

every single tree area is perfect in taos and does not require glading.

[skieurmalade]

I love jano and one day he'll make tons of money for having the most 'pristine' ski area left of the good ones

[alTAos]

every single tree area is perfect in taos and does not require glading.

Can't argue there, just fewer ropes

[wcf3]

Did you know that that NF land is actually all of ours and a ski area only has a lease with the NF? If you have the energy and the will you really can organize a group to get things done. T-Ride has gates and I'm sure the pack is comparable. Get ti together up there and make the NF listen to your group, it can happen, I see pics of that place and the side country looks SICK! The new lifts would be a great addition if there were gates.

A lot of the side country around Taos is actually in a wilderness area. As I understand it there are some legal issues providing access to a wilderness area from a ski area (something along the lines of "indirect motorized access"). Don't know the specifics though. Could be somebody here knows more.

[brunobrau]

That's what you use the mountain bike trials for during the summer. Secret stash ain't just a trail off of Otero.

[LivingOnTheRoad]

Ive made quite a few trips to Taos over the last 20 yrs. It has what I have found at no other resort, it has "soul", it history, it has honest cache. On-mountain changes Ive observed have been minimal during that time.

I dont object the MN glading, any extra terrain is good. However, I dont think that ANY of what is proposed will increase winter skier visits enough to matter.

There are endless stashes and variants to ski for good skiers that have intimate knowledge of the area or who hook up with someone that does.

On any day at almost any resort the number of beginner-advanced skiers will greatly outnumber the hardcore or experts. I would speculate maybe 10:1 or greater. That is how they earn their $. Nothing has been proposed to improve that, and honestly that is very hard to with the terrain that they have, or they would have already.

They can lament all they like about the drop in skier visits. What they are proposing WONT change that. It is the same as what Crested Butte has experienced too, and that is a much more well-rounded mountain for families, with all the goods you could want in the North Face.

I have a family. I have 3 kids I have dragged them around skiing with me every year at least one week for the last 15 yrs. I comparison shop destinations and pricing before deciding where we will go each year. I am a decent skier, they are everything else.

What happened to Crested Butte? IMO, people got greedy in the late 90s. They got rid of cheap lodging and lift tickets, built overpriced condos and jacked ticket prices and especially ski school prices up, and their skier visits fell accordingly. The new owners then decided to do more of the same, massive base area improvements, infusing $$$ that build high $$$ lodging, real estate sales, but could do nothing that would give anyone a reason to come back there. If you arent a expert skier, you ski all of CB you want in 2-3 days, and are done. They hoped they could make it in to a $$ place like Telluride, it will never happen. Why do I think this? Because I loved CB, look at going back every year, but found it got too expensive to take the family for what it offered. Something so simple as ski school pricing will make $1000 difference for a week for a family between destinations, not chump change. Honestly, the people running these resorts seem to have no concept of how much $ it takes to take a family skiing for several days.

On to Taos. In 1994 a lift ticket was $25. Co resorts were about $55 I recall. Today, $71. Co is about $90-95. What have they done to demand the higher lift price? Most Co resorts have DOUBLED their terrain during that time, Taos has done NOTHING. No more terrain at all. They raised prices because they thought they could. Lodging. They have lost the cache with the elimination of several of the older full-lodges and the condos there are now. Lodging prices are also too high in the valley, and in town, for what Taos is for family skiing. Yes its still cheaper overall to ski than anywhere in Co but Wolf Creek, but it offers families FAR less than Co resorts too. If they want to increase skier visits they need to reduce pricing IMO. I still go to Taos, and take family, but cringe at $190 for canyon lodging 1.5 miles from the resort. And $400/night for a condo at the base is ridiculous.

My favorite photo is a picture of me and my 14 yr old daughter on top of Kachina Peak after hiking it. It is a rite of passage for a skier. Almost like summitting a peak in exhilaration for the first time. To destroy that by putting a lift up there is beyond stupid, its assinine. It wont bring any more skiers to Taos, and will mogul the terrain if anything, ruining the experience.
Putting a lift up there reeks of desperation to me to try to make $ by throwing away their cache, all to really claim more lift served vertical. I know they dont have many other choices, but I am against that one.

My family once owned a business my great-grandfather started. In the german tradition, everyone in the family worked there for several generations. It was killed by a combination of changing markets we couldnt adapt to, AND eventually too many family members that believed that they were entitled to a comfortable livelihood from it. The latter often strangles many family businesses. I cant help but wonder ......