Lake Tahoe Instructor Training

[burghschred]

Wondering which mountain would be ideal for a first season as a full time snowboard instructor. I have no certifications yet, so I am interested in the most conducive resort to instructor training.

Basically, which mountain combines the best terrain, vibe, people, and guests with the ability to train/get certified as cheaply as possible, while getting enough lessons to pay the bills. I know I will probably have to compromise on some of these aspects, the mountains with the best vibe probably don't have enough tourists to support full-time entry level instructors, let alone train them for free. I also do have another part-time job which I can work from home to bring in some likely-necessary extra pay.

Already I've applied to Heavenly, Kirkwood, Squaw, Sierra and Northstar. I'm also strongly considering Alpine. I would like to live in Meyers, or somewhere near Tahoe City if I work on the NW coast. So far, Heavenly has been the most communicative and I am fairly certain I will be offered a job there. They also offer paid (8.25) training for AASI certifications, but I will be paying for the examinations. If I work at Heavenly, I will probably buy a pass to Kirkwood for my days off.

Mainly wondering if it is tolerable to work at Heavenly what with the Casino/tourist vibe, and if any of the northwestern mountains also offer instructor training/examinations.

Thanks

[digitaldeath]

heavenly is super strict with employees- also since you are a noob you will be on shittiest, sunniest, flattest run ever all day every day

[LightRanger]

heavenly is super strict with employees- also since you are a noob you will be on shittiest, sunniest, flattest run ever all day every day

That's pretty much the case everywhere.

[dookeyXXX]

1. all resorts offer instructor training of some sort.

2. all resorts will offer free clinics to help you train for your PSIA/AASI level certifications (though I have never heard of a resort paying you to take these clinics...usually they are offered free to employees of the ski/snowboard school and you take them on your days off or request to attend them).

3. Like any job, if you are the new guy/gal, then you can expect to work some of the less desirable shifts (every weekend, all the holidays). But it also depends on how good you are at the job, your personality, and your people skills. And also having a certification helps. Having a Level 1 bumps you up the scale from somebody who isn't certified. Having a Level 2 bumps you up further and so on. Being a full-time instructor gives you a certain amount of clout over a P/T weekends only instructor. Again, a lot of it depends on your personality and skills (I witnessed a lot of folks who weren't certified score regular private lessons and teach higher level classes because they had great personalities and the guests would request them...a lot of ski/snowboard instructing is in the presentation. It's one thing to be the best shredder on the hill, but it's another thing to be able to teach people how to shred in a way that's fun first and also informative, so that you get them to really enjoy the sport and also learn something at the same time).

4. In picking which resort you would most like to work for I would consider some of the following:
1. will you want to ski there on your days off? 2. are you looking to make snowboard instructing a career? The latter question I think is important if you plan to do this every season. I believe working at a larger resort (i.e. something akin to Heavenly) can look good if you decide to pursue this as a career and wish to apply at other resorts around the country/world. Having worked at a large resort and getting a good reference will show other large resorts that you know how to deal with crowds and large classes, etc.

I personally feel that teaching at a larger resort makes it easier to score a job elsewhere and would potentially make working at a smaller resort that much cooler. If you start out at a small resort and then decide you want to work at a larger one, you might very well be overwhelmed.

Also, there's the potential for more work at a larger resort that draws the big tourist crowds.

Again, it all really boils down to what you are looking for.

Questions to ask yourself:

1. are you becoming an instructor just for the free pass?
2. are you becoming an instructor because you want to improve your riding?
3. is this going to potentially be a new career path for you?
4. what do you hope to get out of the experience?
5. do you like to teach?
6. are you patient?

ski/snowboard instructing is actually hard work and you don't freeski as much as you think you might. also there are definite pros and cons to working at a large resort (i.e. a Heavenly) and a small resort (i.e. a Kirkwood or Mt. Rose). you need to weigh out those pros and cons.

all that said, instructing is fun and a good way to improve your skills while getting paid. plus you really get to know the mountain you end up working at, which is cool (i.e. you get to play tour guide to all your pals when they come to visit and expose them to the secret stashes that only employees and locals know about).

[Super Bass-o-Matic '76]

If you want to improve your freestyle - go to Northstar. Chris Hargrave, who wrote the AASI Park and Pipe Manual, is the Burton Academy Director there. Chris is direct and doesn't bullshit. Ask if you get clinic training under him.

[bullhorn]

I taught at Heavenly for many years and found that they would do training most every day for all the instructors that weren't teaching. If you wanted to get certified they were very helpful and supportive. Having said that....If i had to ride that mountain every day on a snowboard instead of skis i'd claw my eyes out.

[burghschred]

Digideath - can you clarify what exactly you mean when you say heavenly is 'strict'

Dookey - thanks for the excellent response. To clarify my goals/expectations, I'll answer your recommended questions to ask myself:

1, 2, 3: I am hoping to improve my riding drastically and also obtain as many certifications as possible. I am definitely looking at it as a career path - whether I stay with the exact job as snowboard instructor or not, I will be pursuing an outdoors teaching/guiding career.

4. I hope to get at least AASI 1. Is it possible to get 1&2 in the same season? I will also be looking for classes at LTCC and other mountains to get my WFR and Avalanche 1 and possibly take a few mountaineering/rock climbing courses. Ultimately, I am trying to build my resume as a guide to the mountains/outdoors.

5. I love to teach. I taught rock climbing throughout high school and have missed teaching ever since. I have successfully helped teach several friends to snowboard, mountain bike, rock climb since. I thrive off of progression, whether it is my own or others.

6. Yes

Seems like Heavenly might be the right place to spend at least the first season, get some experience/certifications under my belt for next season. Sure, I'd probably prefer to ride Kirkwood or Alpine on my off-days, but I'm willing to bet Heavenly isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Those 'gapers' are, after all, the reason we can get paid to do something as awesome as teach snowboarding.

[burghschred]

Hm, so Heavenly really is that brutal on a snowboard, even if you work there and know the mountain really well? I have heard before that the trails/traverses are very flat/uphill but I just assumed if I worked there I'd find ways around that.

Also, is it possible to get AASI 1 & 2 in the same season or does level 2 require a full season's experience with level 1?

[G]

Don't be an instructor. It's the worst job in the world.

Especially if your a newb.

You will NOT be paid to train, but training is free.

You must be certified L1 for a year before attempting L2.

All heavenly instructors are required to wear a helmet when they're working, always.

You will only earn that $8 minimum wage when you're actually in a lesson. More than 50% of the time, you will only be standing around WAITING for a lesson (no pay). Lessons go from 10-4, so the best you can earn for a full day of work is $65 dollars before taxes. (Tips are minimal, especially in beginner lessons)

Don't be an instructor, it's the worst job ever.

[Patches]

Instructing is fun if you like instructing. If you just want to ride as much as possible get a night gig.

You can take L1 and L2 in the same season (I did) if you take the L1 at the very very beginning of the year and apply for a waiver.

If you are good with kids you should always get assigned to lessons, especially if you can ski too. Ski schools do more ski lessons than boarding lessons, and skiers tip better.

[bullhorn]

Hm, so Heavenly really is that brutal on a snowboard, even if you work there and know the mountain really well? I have heard before that the trails/traverses are very flat/uphill but I just assumed if I worked there I'd find ways around that.

Much of the good stuff there requires traverse on long skier cut single tracks that include periodic uphill side-stepping on skis. Even really good boarders are not able to do that with the same speed/ease as somebody on skis. The other problem is that you need to skate from the top of many of the lifts. Again, much easier to do on skis than a board. Every resort has it's long traverses and difficult to get to terrain, but at least at squaw or kirkwood there is good terrain that doesn't require so much work to get to.

[powdork]

as a snowboarder, your plan should be to work at sierra and get a pass at kirkwood, although you prolly could even do without the pass. sierra is the best snowboard mountain on the south shore and has the best pipe park on the south shore as well.

and what g said is true. if you are part time, you are the lowest of the low. you will get lessons when you backline and want to ride. you will get nothing when you need money and need to work.
if you are full time that moves you up a notch in the rotation
with a cert you will move up a notch
with a year's experience you will move up a notch

it turns what you love most into a job.
nonetheless, some people do enjoy it and once you do move up the ladder it's nowhere near as bad. i simply couldn't get past the fact that every minute i was teaching was a minute i wasn't skiing, so i no longer work while the lifts are spinning as a general rule.

[tylerjames]

2. all resorts will offer free clinics to help you train for your PSIA/AASI level certifications (though I have never heard of a resort paying you to take these clinics...usually they are offered free to employees of the ski/snowboard school and you take them on your days off or request to attend them).

Good advice, but their are some resorts that do offerr paid training. I get twenty paid training hours per year.

Also look in to see if their are any scolarships at the mountain to get some cash towards your psia/aasi events.

[digitaldeath]

as a snowboarder, your plan should be to work at sierra and get a pass at kirkwood, although you prolly could even do without the pass. sierra is the best snowboard mountain on the south shore and has the best pipe park on the south shore as well.

and what g said is true. if you are part time, you are the lowest of the low. you will get lessons when you backline and want to ride. you will get nothing when you need money and need to work.
if you are full time that moves you up a notch in the rotation
with a cert you will move up a notch
with a year's experience you will move up a notch

it turns what you love most into a job.
nonetheless, some people do enjoy it and once you do move up the ladder it's nowhere near as bad. i simply couldn't get past the fact that every minute i was teaching was a minute i wasn't skiing, so i no longer work while the lifts are spinning as a general rule.

do this - sierra kwood plan

[h-atlas]

If you are teaching snowboarding, you should teach at Sierra if you want to live in Meyers. Heavenly is a horrible snowboarder's mountain. Kirkwood just might not have their act together/probably doesn't need as much help.

Otherwise, can't go wrong with Squaw and that Northstar option sounds good.

[Bobby Light]

You said you eventually want to guide, why not patrol. On a board you're not going to work anywhere with a large avalanche program, but then you're at least headed down the right path. I don't want my guide to be able to teach me a stem-christi, I want them to be able to keep me out of trouble, and if we get in trouble, know how to get us out. Northstar, Sierra, Boreal, Diamond Peak and Boreal all have patrollers on Boards, I think. Some resorts will hire you if you're enrolled in an EMT or OEC class so long as it will finish by the beginning of the season. The resorts listed are the ones who would be most likely to do that. It's worth looking into.

[dookeyXXX]

I can only speak from my own personal experience:

Last season I worked P/T and I worked every single weekend, 9 days straight over Christmas and then 8 days straight over Ski Week. Additionally, when February came around a ton of the Aussie and Kiwi instructors left to return to Uni, thus more hours opened up (I continued to work P/T, but a lot of my co-instructors bumped up to F/T).

Getting a cert was very much a proactive-on-my-part-kind-of-thing (I had to check clinic schedules and make appointments with seasoned instructors to get training), but once I figured that out it was a piece of cake. In fact this is the major key to having a good experience: ask a lot of questions and be eager/available to partake in clinics, training, etc. It also helped greatly to introduce myself to everybody that I could on the ski school, especially the older instructors. Getting to know some of the OG's definitely helped, not so much in getting more hours, but definitely in terms of getting free instruction, knowing which clinics to take, and whatnot; they are a great resource and often have a ton of tricks to share regarding the gig.

Also, know that teaching in the "kid's school" is totally different than teaching in the "adult's school"; different hours, different routines.

I taught kids and a typical day included checking in around 8 a.m. and helping with set-up. Lessons started usually between 9 and 10 and went to 3:30/3:45, then there was tear-down.

The gig to get is private lessons, which usually start around 10. But you either have to be assigned to these or promote yourself to your clients (kids and adults in your lesson). I had a few friends who got season-long private gigs out of group lessons.

Also there's often a crew of instructors who do impromptu pre-work clinics that kick off with first chair and last 30 minutes to an hour. This is a great way to start the day if you don't have to do any pre-lesson work.

Like Powdork said, the downside to instructing is that it turns skiing into a job. The upside is that you can totally improve your skill set and get paid for it. My longtime ski buddies noticed a vast improvement in my skiing from November of last year to April of this year.

[burghschred]

Thanks for all the great advice. I am now probably more unsure of exactly what/where I want to be doing, but also more psyched for this winter than ever. I just got my official offer for f/t snowboard instructor from Heavenly, but we'll see what happens because I also got word back from Squaw that my info is moving on up to the hiring managers. Sierra's hiring fair is in late October so I'll be ready for that one too.

Don't think I will try and go the patrol route, least not this year, but thanks for the advice, that definitely does fit with my eventual goal. I think my plan will be to ride as much as possible, get my AASI 1 (& maybe 2), WFR, and whatever else I can through LTCC, and hopefully work at Sierra or Squaw. The heavenly offer is a nice safety though in case those don't work out.

Gotta take it slow, I think this season I'll just concentrate on my riding and stocking up on all the gear I'll be needing. Gotta get a whole backcountry boarding setup (pack, shovel, probe, transceiver), some new pants, new rope, some rock pro, maybe a few ice screws, crampons.... and of course snow shoes or a split board.... ahhh the list goes on and on. Flying back to the basin this Saturday, can't wait to do some long climbs at lover's leap, get myself back into the mountain mindset. Oh I cannot wait to be out of this OFFICE! Might even try my first trad lead...

Any further advice on pursuing this lifestyle/career would be much appreciated. Glad I stumbled upon this sick online community thing. Yinz are pretty chill.

[LightRanger]

burgh,

If you don't know how to already, learn to ski. Seriously.

I got my AASI Level I my second year snowboarding (and first year teaching), and then I eventually switched to (tele, mostly) skiing for numerous reasons. The main reasons in the teaching context, though, are: 1) There are more ski lessons at most resorts, and; 2) Even if there aren't, the resort I worked at for 10 P/T seasons (Boreal) paid more if you could teach both, and; 3) If you can switch and be flexible, you're more likely to get work. But still, don't count on it being your only F/T job because you very likely just straight won't get many hours on weekdays except during the holidays. You're lowest on the totem and long-time instructors get priority. And yes, I'm aware Boreal sucks, I worked there for reasons unrelated to the hill itself.

You may not necessarily have to buy your own stuff if you want to teach skiing, BTW. Sometimes you can swing gear from the rental shop.

And, P.S., if you really want to go the AMGA route, learn to ski well, and get on the patrol at Squaw or Alpine. As a former (and maybe soon to be again) snowboarder and longtime mountain employee, there are a lot of work-related things (both on the hill and in backcountry guiding context) that really really lend themselves to skis. I know there are splitboard guides (Stephen Koch, formerly at Exum, with whom I'm sure you're familiar, being a notable example), but they're pretty darn rare.

Just throwing some ideas out there.

[dookeyXXX]

LR says some good things.

Again, dunno about other resorts, but where I worked they taught a number of snowboarders how to ski in a couple of weeks (and also taught some non-skiers how to ski) so they could get more hours/work. It's basically up to you to let them know that you want to learn to ski. I actually found that where I worked they were pretty good about accommodating people's requests for more work and helping them get it (i.e. by teaching them how to ski or snowboard). The bottomline is that the more versatile you are, the more you have to offer. It all kind of goes back to the marketing yourself spiel I delivered a few posts above.

They also offer huge discounts on lessons (for example, if I had wanted to I could have taken snowboard or even tele lessons for next to nothing). But again this would be something that you do on your time off.

And in terms of gear, they "leased" skis/snowboards for the season to the kids who didn't own their own gear.

Oh yeah, while getting pro deals is part of the sweet benefits of being an instructor, be aware that every company offers different pro deals. For example some companies offering A/T equipment are pretty strict about their pro deals (when I checked last season, BD's pro deal was insane: you had to be a full-time certified instructor (I believe you had to have at least a Level 2) or a full-time Patrol and then you had to submit a pay stub and a letter of recommendation and even then the type of gear you could get at a discount was up to their discretion). That said, other companies usually offer 40% or more of a discount, as long as you are a member of PSIA/AASI (Smith has great pro deals, for example). Info on all of this is on the PSIA/AASI website. But also a lot of companies have pro deal info on their sites (but you'll have to dig for it).

[Bobby Light]

^the first rule about fight club is.......