Dynafit TLT 5 Boot

[gillesleskieur]

like, VERY much....

[fun2ski2]

I tried on the new TLT5 and they felt great and were surprisingly stiff. I was wondering why they do not need a shim under the ball of the foot like the Scarpa F1. It looks as though the small “rivet” at the toe prevents the shell from flexing more than a few millimeters. I assume this keeps the shell from sagging too far and popping out of the binding. If this rivet is the only thing keeping the boot from flexing any more than it already does, I wonder how long it will last with thousands of footsteps putting pressure on the rivet and the small piece of plastic limiting the boots flex. Just curious.

[Jonathan S.]

- Downhill performance, especially on the carbon version just impressive if you keep in mind what described on the previous point...
[...]
Differences between Mountain and Performance version: Weight is the same, up hill agility is the same... downhill performance extremely different approx 40% extra forward stiffness and approx 25% extra lateral stiffness. This is obtained thanks to the carbon fiber cuff.

In the shops you could have tried on the Mountain version, the performance is not delivered yet!... you will find quite some difference when you try that out.

Did you tried the Mountain or the Performance? if you say the forward flex is fairly soft and softer than the maestrale I gues the Mountain... try the carbon version as well...

Yes, sorry, I haven't seen his previouse message. so clearly from that he tested the mountain (full pebax cuff) ...
The difference in forward flex in the downhill mode (extra tongue added) of the performance compared with the mountain is very much.

So, Federico, you're saying . . . the "Performance" carbon fiber version will ski much better than the "Mountain" all-plastic version?
And I'm ready to say the same thing, given my experience with the DyNA this past season (and this past Saturday after our surprise two-foot snowstorm):
http://www.wildsnow.com/2346/dynafit...boot-its-here/
But, will the Performance version be available in North America? So far MEC has a placeholder listing, as does Mountain Gear, but then again the latter has been listing the ARVA Link for over a year now.
Is the carbon fiber boot going to be just a "concept car" in North America like the DyNA was last year?

[Jonathan S.]

I was wondering why they do not need a shim under the ball of the foot like the Scarpa F1.

Based on my experience with the DyNA last season, the flex zone has just the right of amount of give to impart a noticeable advantage in off-snow travel, a subtle advantage while skinning, yet so little compression while skiing that no shim is necessary.

[EvelKnievel]

But, will the Performance version be available in North America? So far MEC has a placeholder listing, as does Mountain Gear, but then again the latter has been listing the ARVA Link for over a year now.
Is the carbon fiber boot going to be just a "concept car" in North America like the DyNA was last year?

I'll just add what I've heard on this. I'm interested to hear what Federico has th say though. The black diamond store in SLC said they are going to carry them as did the sport loft. (ETA who knows when. Mid November?) I have a feeling that they will move fast once they arrive though. I heard through the grape vine that Sport Loft has already sold maybe 10 pairs and they haven't even arrived at the shop yet! I haven't heard about any etailers carrying them except for mountain gear.

With so much buzz about this boot, I wonder why Dynafit didn't have this thing shipped by 10/1. Seems strange to me. However, I'm sure there are several of Murphy's Laws in effect getting this boot ready for market when you consider all of the changes Federico mentioned from the prototype to the production version. Good thing it hasn't snowed yet or I'd be getting really itchy about these...

[andybrnr]

I special ordered a pair of Performances from Marmot Mountain Works in Bellevue, WA around mid September... was just told by one of the folks at the shop that the shipment is expected to hit the US in the next week, with distribution to local stores by the first or second week of November.

I think a number of retailers thought the price was a touch high for fully stocking the Performance version of the boot... but since the fit can be verified nicely with the Mountain version before ordering, this probably makes sense, since at its price point the Performance isn't exactly an impulse buy.

As soon as I get these, I'll either head down to Rainier or up to Baker to give them a trial run... can't wait, hope the upper levels will get a decent dump or two by then.

[Graeme]

Federico, I would appreciate your authoritative opinion on the differences between the liners between half sizes of TLT5. I currently ski Zzero 4s in a 28. These fit well (after moulding), but have only just enough shell width for me, with good room in other dimensions. Plenty of thickness at the heel would be good for me, to allow for padding during moulding over my Haglands Spurs. I presume the 28.5 will have a thinner liner than a 28 with the same shell - but what part of the liner is thinner? For instance is it just the sole that is different, or is there also different thickness in widther and length? How much difference does any of this make after moulding? In other words, will a 28.5 give me more available width after moulding?

[harpo-the-skier]

I heard from someone at Dyna USA that the half size has the same liner as the whole size, but it is premolded for a slightly bigger foot.

Federico, I would appreciate your authoritative opinion on the differences between the liners between half sizes of TLT5. I currently ski Zzero 4s in a 28. These fit well (after moulding), but have only just enough shell width for me, with good room in other dimensions. Plenty of thickness at the heel would be good for me, to allow for padding during moulding over my Haglands Spurs. I presume the 28.5 will have a thinner liner than a 28 with the same shell - but what part of the liner is thinner? For instance is it just the sole that is different, or is there also different thickness in widther and length? How much difference does any of this make after moulding? In other words, will a 28.5 give me more available width after moulding?

[Patches]

Graeme- I have Haglunds too- and I bet mine are worse than yours. This shell is the best I have seen for freaks like us, the heel pocket is very roomy. so there is lots of space for our spurs.

[mortimer]

i tried the scrapa maestral again.

...there is a TON of flex in the lower with any weight on the rear cuff. the ting moves all over the place. you would have to ski this boot very forward to keep for touching the rear cuff, or it basically just folds on you.

im a little confused at what you mean here -- can you explain this a little more? any guess as to how the tlt and maestrale compare in lateral and rearward stiffness?

the maestrale fits my foot like a glove, but im a little worried at how soft it is. how would you suggest stiffening the forward flex this particular boot? if there's a way to get it into radium territory id be stoked!

[Federico]

No worries on this point, the rivet only hold on the shell "extension" which happens in skiing only if you lean backward... and to generate enough pulling to brake that rivet you will probably have to brake everything else on your body before

AS regards the front flex the rivet is only guiding, the stop is given by the shell. You can't see it from the outside but if you cut the boot in two parts(very good idea ) ... you will see that the white part of the shell is open with a vertical cut and that the two sides of the cut allows only exactly that amount of flex. So I can assure no more flex will happen and that the bindig, if correctly mounted and adjusted will never allow the boots to pops out.

I tried on the new TLT5 and they felt great and were surprisingly stiff. I was wondering why they do not need a shim under the ball of the foot like the Scarpa F1. It looks as though the small “rivet” at the toe prevents the shell from flexing more than a few millimeters. I assume this keeps the shell from sagging too far and popping out of the binding. If this rivet is the only thing keeping the boot from flexing any more than it already does, I wonder how long it will last with thousands of footsteps putting pressure on the rivet and the small piece of plastic limiting the boots flex. Just curious.

[Federico]

It's not going to be a "concept boot" .... anyway the boot is very expensive and the sell-in was good but on a very limited quantity compared with the market size and request...nobody could expect such a crazy sales result from the TLT5 line worldwide... So there will be not so many boots available in north america. Most probably more will come in december but this is still to plan.
They are being delivered soon in the shops, unfortunately we had a few weeks of delay compared with the original production plan, understandable as it's a very new model with a super complex production process.
Those few weeks delay allowed us to deliver some quantities in Europe this week and last week but unfortunately you have to consider at least 2-3 weeks more of logistics from Italy to USA, even if using air freight...
Anyway to deliver a new boot in north america by mid/end of October is a good performance...anyway I understand beginning of september would have been much better... ;-)

I'll just add what I've heard on this. I'm interested to hear what Federico has th say though. The black diamond store in SLC said they are going to carry them as did the sport loft. (ETA who knows when. Mid November?) I have a feeling that they will move fast once they arrive though. I heard through the grape vine that Sport Loft has already sold maybe 10 pairs and they haven't even arrived at the shop yet! I haven't heard about any etailers carrying them except for mountain gear.

With so much buzz about this boot, I wonder why Dynafit didn't have this thing shipped by 10/1. Seems strange to me. However, I'm sure there are several of Murphy's Laws in effect getting this boot ready for market when you consider all of the changes Federico mentioned from the prototype to the production version. Good thing it hasn't snowed yet or I'd be getting really itchy about these...

[Federico]

As some asked and I still see quite some confusion here a few info about the difference on half sizes... consider this is the standard used my most of ski boots producers not only by dynafit...
The premise is that for EVERY boot company every shell makes to size... for example 27 and 27,5 are the same shell. Of course the bigger 27,5.

TF liners ... or full thermoformable liners
- Different footbed, thicker on 27, thinner on 27,5. This adjust the internal volume
- Differente pre forming. The liners are mounted and pre formed on a longer last. This give more internal lenght.
- Thicnkess of materials and liner construction pattern is the same.

TF-X, MF or any other traditional construction liner.
- Different footbed, thicker on 27, thinner on 27,5. This adjust the internal volume
- Nothing else.

* Don't think the foobed thicnkess is just a trick to sell more boots... this makes a pretty big difference on the fitting.
* I would always recoment to buy the half size, 27,5 for instance and play with custom footbeds or extra layer under the footbed to reduce the volume if needed. As a few millimeters of extra lenght is never a problem for skiing.

[marshalolson]

im a little confused at what you mean here -- can you explain this a little more? any guess as to how the tlt and maestrale compare in lateral and rearward stiffness?

the maestrale fits my foot like a glove, but im a little worried at how soft it is. how would you suggest stiffening the forward flex this particular boot? if there's a way to get it into radium territory id be stoked!

you can make a stiff boot softer but you cannot make a soft boot stiffer... easily at least.

i have an issue with the rearward stiffness, not the forward stiffness.

the radium fits like ass, way too small in the toe, way too tall in the ankle. that is why you need more stiffness, to offer control over the ski that you cannot access since the fit is off. you have to flex into the boot to contact the top of your foot. a well fitting boot can be skied cenetered with no pressure fore or aft.

if you want radium stiff (or well... stiffer) a better fit, and .5lbs per foot lighter, look at the mobe.

[mortimer]

you can make a stiff boot softer but you cannot make a soft boot stiffer... easily at least.

i have an issue with the rearward stiffness, not the forward stiffness.

the radium fits like ass, way too small in the toe, way too tall in the ankle. that is why you need more stiffness, to offer control over the ski that you cannot access since the fit is off. you have to flex into the boot to contact the top of your foot. a well fitting boot can be skied cenetered with no pressure fore or aft.

if you want radium stiff (or well... stiffer) a better fit, and .5lbs per foot lighter, look at the mobe.

yea unfortunately since the mobe uses the skookum lower it's way too high volume in the ankle and instep for me. do you think the lateral stiffness is as weak as the rear (hard to tell w/o being on snow i guess)?

[verbier61]

yea unfortunately since the mobe uses the skookum lower it's way too high volume in the ankle and instep for me. do you think the lateral stiffness is as weak as the rear (hard to tell w/o being on snow i guess)?

tried the mobe yesterday. The lower looks similar to skookum, but believe me it fits different, ie it's more tight than skookum on my slim foot. I'll ski them the day after tomorrow, BTW

[marshalolson]

yea unfortunately since the mobe uses the skookum lower it's way too high volume in the ankle and instep for me. do you think the lateral stiffness is as weak as the rear (hard to tell w/o being on snow i guess)?

its the hurricane lower, not the skookum. somewhat lower volume.

[mortimer]

tried the mobe yesterday. The lower looks similar to skookum, but believe me it fits different, ie it's more tight than skookum on my slim foot. I'll ski them the day after tomorrow, BTW

ah that is encouraging -- look forward to reading the review

[gillesleskieur]

Skied the boots again, have to confirm my earlier impressions... they rock! skied on packed and wind affected powder in Saas Fee.
i wear a 27.5 as in ANY other AT boots.

[ready2tumble]

So, Federico, you're saying that the liner in my 26.0 Zzeus is exactly the same as a 26.5, once I take the footbed out? I wouldn't gain any length with a 26.5 liner? Shell fit on them seems good, and I'm trying to keep things as close to my narrow foot as possible, but the liner feels really short. I haven't had them cooked yet, and hope to add some length to the liner in the process, but there doesn't seem to be much padding in there to compress in that direction. And going up to a 26.5 wouldn't help?

[harpo-the-skier]

I am a 26 Titan and Zzero (with punching), but a 27 TLT5.

I have heard that you can punch these boots, but it is a much more delicate operation than with other AT boots, much less alpine boots.

[Nick W]

I am trying to decide between the Scarpa F1 and the TLT-5 Mountain or Performance. I just ordered a pair of Scarpa F1's for long, high speed tours in the Adirondacks and ski mountaineering elsewhere on skinny skis (BD Cult). However, I, like everyone else here, am becoming obsessed with the TLT-5, especially the Performance model. Now I am thinking about returning the F1's and dishing out the cash for the TLT-5 Performance, as a boot to use for the aforementioned purposes, but also to replace my current heavier 4 buckle AT boots, to use with lightweight mid-fat (what were previously fat skis - older foam core BD Verdicts) skis, as well.

Some questions hopefully someone can help with:

1) How does the overall weight of the Scarpa F1 compare to the Dynafit TLT 5 (Mountain and Performance; my understanding is that both of these models weigh the same)

2) As I said, I am looking to do long tours in the Adirondacks on skinny skis, and ski mountaineering. The F1's seem very comfortable for long, all day tours. Will I sacrice all-day comfort and tourability with the TLT-5 (especially the Performance) in comparison to the Scarpa F1?

3) If I choose the TLT-5 Performance compared to the TLT-5 Mountain, I gain downhill performance with fore/aft and lateral stiffness, but do I also lose all day comfort and touring agility on the flats???

Thanks!!

Nick

[gillesleskieur]

NIck W

2) As I said, I am looking to do long tours in the Adirondacks on skinny skis, and ski mountaineering. The F1's seem very comfortable for long, all day tours. Will I sacrice all-day comfort and tourability with the TLT-5 (especially the Performance) in comparison to the Scarpa F1?

NOt at alll, comfort and tourability are great.


3) If I choose the TLT-5 Performance compared to the TLT-5 Mountain, I gain downhill performance with fore/aft and lateral stiffness, but do I also lose all day comfort and touring agility on the flats???

Ther re no comparisson possible in beetween f1 and tlts downhill performances. tourability and comfort are just the same. or even better for tourability imo

[El Chupacabra]

I am a 26 Titan and Zzero (with punching), but a 27 TLT5.

I have heard that you can punch these boots, but it is a much more delicate operation than with other AT boots, much less alpine boots.

Did you find somewhere around Tahoe to try on the TLT5? if so.... where?

[harpo-the-skier]

Did you find somewhere around Tahoe to try on the TLT5? if so.... where?

Mammoth Mountaineering has the Mountain in a couple of sizes including 26 and 27. Alpenglow in Tahoe City and Reno Mountain Sports should also be getting some sizes soon.