4FRNT Renegade ~ Hand built in SLC.

[JRainey]

I'd like to think that review sold a lot of skis...

That was on pair #29 with was pre-production which I begged to get so I could have it on a trip to Chile. Due to mount fuckery in Chilean shop they had to be mounted at -3cm from center, and I fucking loved it there (except for really deep powder). Then due to maybe some repeat mount fuckery, the bindings ripped out and 4frnt and swapped my pair. Got pair #87 mounted at -5cm and the love was lost, not the same ski. In powder, sure, but the old ones had become my daily driver, and the new ones were beasts I couldn't tame.

No loss though as it started me down the rabbit hole: EHPs, Raven, double Hoji setup, Kusala. I still think EHPs are the best (except for pair #29). This winter I discommissioned the Hojis and went with more camber and more sidecut in and attempt to get "jibby" again. Don't worry, it worked, and the Bent Chetler 120 is a great ski that handles weird snow good enough. I do miss the stiff tail action, but the hojis were so rockered you'd be way back by the time the tail pushed back. My personal speed limit is lowering as well. But I'd really say BC 120 gives me 85% of top end performance (i'm 155lbs) and it's just so light and easy to ski.
/end-blasphemy

That said, all this talk of the new hoji has me wanting to get back in the game. I'm not really getting 'jibby' when I tour, so the bent chetler with shifts is kind of overkill. A flat cambered hoji (2mm narrower in the tip = more ehp for me) would basically be my touring ski 90% of the time in the alps.

I just had an amazing run on the ravens with decently light powder, sinking it 10-20cm, but I was just wishing I had the hojis. The ravens ski it fine, but the tails never come out of the snow, you never plane up. I woudn't have wanted the old hojis either, because there's just too much rocker. The BC 120s would have just been overkill, but maybe awesome.

The other side of the coin is bad snow, the 110 width just handles anything you're going to sink into better than 100 width. Even in rock hard sastrugi, I'd rather be on the hoji vs the raven. It just slides sideways better.

So I think I'll be getting some of the new ones, mounting with 250g bindings, and touring on them unless it's warm spring or 18" of powder. The new EHP is coming, best width and lighter!

That was more than I intended on writing. The same thing happened with the original Renegade review :-)

[tang]

^^^ Very excited for the new flat hoji. Yes, sounds like the closest to getting back to the EHP. I'll pick up a pair for sure and prob put inserts in for both alpine and a 300g tour binding. Glad to see this from them

[stealurface831]

anyone holding a pair of 196 renegades they would consider selling?

[LSeed]

I’m personally of the opinion that the hoji skis are meant to have a progressive mount point and that moving it back would mess with the magic. That said I haven’t skied the new design and have a hoard of og white room renegades that’ll probably last me until I’m too old to ski them anymore. I’d be very curious to try the new 184 as a touring rig.

I've been rocking the new 184 for a few months now as a touring rig. I love it they are really really fun in most conditions but really shine in anything variable, think slight sun effect wind pressed, just have the confidence to let um go and your on top of the world while everyone else is getting knocked around you just carve like its a perfect pow day. I feel like every big cliff(which isn't many these days) that I've hit this year I have been a little backseat on landing and they have just popped me right out of the snow into a wicked runout, and when I have nailed the landing gear its such a great stompy feel! A lot of that can just be lent to being a very fat touring ski but when I factor in the extreme lightweightness of the ski I have been grabbing them for even some narrower couloir missions as well. That being said when the going is really icy or hard I wish i was on my Hoji's(2015 versions I think) as they are a bit faster edge to edge and the extra weight gets bounced around less in those situations. The bases seem to scratch fairly easy on the rens, just a little rock walking at 0 speed seemed to take a fair bit of Ptex off of them but could have just been especially sharp rocks!.

Video of my skiing them a couple days ago, not really trying conditions again but pretty sure they saved me a bit on the one air hahaha.

[tang]

Sweet vid and nice sluff mgt!

[LSeed]

Sweet vid and nice sluff mgt!

Thanks! I really wanted to flash it and just go flying off the cliff but wasn't sure how close i was to the edge and if i was about to have a large river right on top of me so I played it safe! Hopefully go for a repeat of it at some point and maybe take the right hand exit for a bit more floaty air! Super fun zone though!

[JRainey]

Thanks! I really wanted to flash it and just go flying off the cliff but wasn't sure how close i was to the edge and if i was about to have a large river right on top of me so I played it safe! Hopefully go for a repeat of it at some point and maybe take the right hand exit for a bit more floaty air! Super fun zone though!

Looks amazing!

[pfluffenmeister]

I'd like to think that review sold a lot of skis...

That was on pair #29 with was pre-production which I begged to get so I could have it on a trip to Chile. Due to mount fuckery in Chilean shop they had to be mounted at -3cm from center, and I fucking loved it there (except for really deep powder). Then due to maybe some repeat mount fuckery, the bindings ripped out and 4frnt and swapped my pair. Got pair #87 mounted at -5cm and the love was lost, not the same ski. In powder, sure, but the old ones had become my daily driver, and the new ones were beasts I couldn't tame.

No loss though as it started me down the rabbit hole: EHPs, Raven, double Hoji setup, Kusala. I still think EHPs are the best (except for pair #29). This winter I discommissioned the Hojis and went with more camber and more sidecut in and attempt to get "jibby" again. Don't worry, it worked, and the Bent Chetler 120 is a great ski that handles weird snow good enough. I do miss the stiff tail action, but the hojis were so rockered you'd be way back by the time the tail pushed back. My personal speed limit is lowering as well. But I'd really say BC 120 gives me 85% of top end performance (i'm 155lbs) and it's just so light and easy to ski.
/end-blasphemy

That said, all this talk of the new hoji has me wanting to get back in the game. I'm not really getting 'jibby' when I tour, so the bent chetler with shifts is kind of overkill. A flat cambered hoji (2mm narrower in the tip = more ehp for me) would basically be my touring ski 90% of the time in the alps.

I just had an amazing run on the ravens with decently light powder, sinking it 10-20cm, but I was just wishing I had the hojis. The ravens ski it fine, but the tails never come out of the snow, you never plane up. I woudn't have wanted the old hojis either, because there's just too much rocker. The BC 120s would have just been overkill, but maybe awesome.

The other side of the coin is bad snow, the 110 width just handles anything you're going to sink into better than 100 width. Even in rock hard sastrugi, I'd rather be on the hoji vs the raven. It just slides sideways better.

So I think I'll be getting some of the new ones, mounting with 250g bindings, and touring on them unless it's warm spring or 18" of powder. The new EHP is coming, best width and lighter!

That was more than I intended on writing. The same thing happened with the original Renegade review :-)

How do the Renegade/Kusala compare?

[JRainey]

How do the Renegade/Kusala compare?

They are very similar. Kusala is basically a slightly better version of the OG Renegade. The tip profile and shape on the Rens are better. I never had the hail mary moments on Kusalas like I did the Rens, but day to day I liked them better. This is on Euro snow.

I skied them this year my first touring day with tlt8s and the "sock" liner, just to play around. They work for that, but really don't hold you back. I guess I feel like the kusalas were more like a fatter, stiffer EHP. Dems would back that up. Used them a decent amount the last two years for pure touring and they are very versatile. But I'd rather be at 112 most of the time touring versus 124. Even though for 124 the tips aren't much fatter than a 100mm touring ski, so they skin tracks around too bad. Good skis.

If I was buying now, I would prob go renegade, as they've gotten lighter and more relaxed, and EH is kinda pyscho about getting the skis to feel right.

[tang]

I guess this is the best “4frnt” thread, so putting it here. Hoji blister interview just dropped, him on the new hoji. Sounds like hoji updated to catch up with the ren and raven - so 184 and 191 lengths. Also sounds like the rocker profile will match. I was hoping for a flat hoji, more like ehp rocker. But early prototype was flatter and softer, and then evolved to stiffer and more rocker. Damn! Wanted stiffer flatter. But we’ll see...

https://4frnt.com/blogs/videos/hoji-on-the-updated-hoji

[rfconroy]

Blister's got a gear30 on the topic with Hoji, welp - i know what I am listening to later today.

Been real curious to try out the Renegade and Hoji - Who is in the Seattle area that has a BSL around 305 that would let me use a pair for a weekend?

[cravenmoorehed]

As Hoji gets older his skis get shorter and lighter. Rockered skis are meant to be skied longer.... Dumping the 195? Modernize? hmm

[Mustonen]

As Hoji gets older his skis get shorter and lighter. Rockered skis are meant to be skied longer.... Dumping the 195? Modernize? hmm

Oh snap!

He certainly challenges my long ski fetish.

Also, the blister podcasts are particularly hard to watch. Why does everything have to be video/audio these days? Takes me 15 minutes to watch something that would be a 3 minute read. [/shit that annoys you]

[XavierD]

Hoji isn’t a big dude. Did he ever ski the 195/196?

[altacoup]

I think he did some heli skiing on the original 196 renegades. It’s unfortunate but the long skis don’t sell and those who want them almost never pay full price. I have OG 196 renegades. I only use them at snowbird on really good days. The terrain at Alta isn’t big enough for them. Doesn’t sound like I’ll be running out to buy the new hoji. In fact since 4frnt production has moved to the utopia factory I haven’t bought a pair of their skis. And over the years I’ve owned probably 20 pairs of 4frnt skis.

[mr_pretzel]

I think he did some heli skiing on the original 196 renegades. It’s unfortunate but the long skis don’t sell and those who want them almost never pay full price. I have OG 196 renegades. I only use them at snowbird on really good days. The terrain at Alta isn’t big enough for them. Doesn’t sound like I’ll be running out to buy the new hoji. In fact since 4frnt production has moved to the utopia factory I haven’t bought a pair of their skis. And over the years I’ve owned probably 20 pairs of 4frnt skis.

He definitely didn’t spend much time on the 195 hoji if at all.

I’m bummed I missed out on the flat hoji prototype. I’ll probably give the new hoji a shot, but the utopia construction doesn’t feel as good as the whiteroom skis did

[altacoup]

Yeah I’m wishing I would’ve bought the flat proto types. I was always pretty pumped on the skis that came out of the elan factory. Not sure on the quality coming out of utopia but all the updated designs (devestator, renegade, hoji) have gone lighter and softer. So I’m not really that interested.


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[tang]

Kind of an echo chamber here, but yes I don't understand the whole line up going lighter. I kind of get the hoji line up since it's more bc-oriented... but why not keep or add back a chargier heavier flatter inbounds version? And then the dev was sort of that, but it also got a lot lighter despite being an inbounds ski. I get that they're a business and long skis don't sell, etc etc. But it's also a small biz with a cult group, so seems they should tip their hat to that in some way - like maybe do some pre-order special runs?
And back to the hoji, whats the point of a bunch of prototyping if the new version is just a 112 waist version of the renegade?

[cravenmoorehed]

Ive owned the og renegade 196, the ehp 193, all the hojis in 187 for touring and 195 for resort, and even ravens. I enjoy all of the newer skis now for touring but, are definitely tuned down charging skis from the earlier years.

[altacoup]

Kind of an echo chamber here, but yes I don't understand the whole line up going lighter. I kind of get the hoji line up since it's more bc-oriented... but why not keep or add back a chargier heavier flatter inbounds version? And then the dev was sort of that, but it also got a lot lighter despite being an inbounds ski. I get that they're a business and long skis don't sell, etc etc. But it's also a small biz with a cult group, so seems they should tip their hat to that in some way - like maybe do some pre-order special runs?
And back to the hoji, whats the point of a bunch of prototyping if the new version is just a 112 waist version of the renegade?

I guess I’m most disappointed in the changes to the devastator. It was such a great inbounds daily driver before. I’ve got enough og renegades to get me through until I’m too old to ski such a ripper. I understand why the hoji designs have gone the way they have. I love my ravens. Bummer that 4frnt doesn’t do demos anymore, as I’d like to try the new devastator but don’t want to throw down for them when I’m quite skeptical about their weight. I know they have the refund policy but it seems wasteful if I don’t like them.

[Self Jupiter]

I wish they had added 188-190 length for the old Devastator and kept them as-is. It’s such a fantastic ski.

[4FRNT_Skis]

Wanted to hop in real quick and show the new rocker line with you to clear up any questions about it. We took the tip and tail rocker that we know works well in the Renegade and adapted that to the new Hoji while flattening out under foot substantially. Take a peek
-Sam

[Mustonen]

Attachment doesn’t seem to work. Not your fault, the board is shitty and is sustained by an old box fan that rolled off the assembly line in the late 70’s.

Edit: Nevermind, you got it.

[mr_pretzel]

That looks..... dramatic

[XavierD]

Looks like the camera angle is amplifying the rocker line.