4FRNT Renegade ~ Hand built in SLC.

**foreal** · 01-22-2013, 11:28 PM

I don't want to cunt up this thread but...

After 20 or so days my beloved Rens have lost a good amount of tip rocker and developed camber underfoot - basically eliminating any tail rocker. Last years 196. To me, they now ski/feel/look more like a 193 EHP than the slarvy fully rockered ski they initally were. Anyone else experience anything of this sort?

Will post pics when I have some time.

**bestskieratsnowbird** · 01-23-2013, 12:40 AM

interested to see pics, i don't even know how that would be possible.

Originally Posted by foreal

I don't want to cunt up this thread but...

After 20 or so days my beloved Rens have lost a good amount of tip rocker and developed camber underfoot - basically eliminating any tail rocker. Last years 196. To me, they now ski/feel/look more like a 193 EHP than the slarvy fully rockered ski they initally were. Anyone else experience anything of this sort?

Will post pics when I have some time.

**ARpowhound** · 01-23-2013, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by turkeyUP

Next years ren. Topsheets look awesome yet again.

Looks sweet. Especially with that Beast 16 on them. Anxious to hear what Hoji has to say about the binding.

**ASmileyFace** · 01-23-2013, 05:39 PM

New top sheet looks.... interesting. I'll wait to make my full judgement on seeing them in person.

I'm also a bit surprised about the change to the sidewalls but if they work the same except with better durability I'm down.

**ulty_guy** · 01-24-2013, 10:55 AM

Found a good line on a pair of 186s in Euroland.....

Trigger = Pullled

Knees = Shaking

I'm a firm Explosiv/RC112 rear mounting kinda guy. I guess I'm shooting for 86cm then? Or do I just sack it up and give in to the 88cm? Decisions decisions.

**auvgeek** · 01-24-2013, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by ulty_guy

I guess I'm shooting for 86cm then? Or do I just sack it up and give in to the 88cm?

There is a middle option...

**auvgeek** · 01-24-2013, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by foreal

After 20 or so days my beloved Rens have lost a good amount of tip rocker and developed camber underfoot - basically eliminating any tail rocker. Last years 196. To me, they now ski/feel/look more like a 193 EHP than the slarvy fully rockered ski they initally were. Anyone else experience anything of this sort?

How are you storing them? I bought a pair of 196s from GS and it looked like the owner had stored them with a Voile strap or something around the tip and the tail because that's where the contact points were. I wouldn't say they had camber underfoot, but it was some weird triple camber, Praxis Concept/Moment Deathwish thing going on. No idea how they ski compared to my 186 Rens. I was able to get some of the rocker back by stacking some textbooks on the ski and leaving them sit for a few weeks. I wrote this problem off as an issue with the way they were stored, but maybe it's bigger than that?

I wonder if this issue is isolated to the 196? That extra few inches doesn't seem like it would make a huge difference in the scheme of things...

**D(C)** · 01-24-2013, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by ulty_guy

Found a good line on a pair of 186s in Euroland.....

Trigger = Pullled

Knees = Shaking

I'm a firm Explosiv/RC112 rear mounting kinda guy. I guess I'm shooting for 86cm then? Or do I just sack it up and give in to the 88cm? Decisions decisions.

87 if you like a more traditional feel. 88 if you still like to charge but want something a bit looser and more slarvy. I tried both spots and found the difference to be dramatic. Personally I probably wouldn't go 86 as these have a very precise sweet spot and are quite mount-sensitive. Bear in mind Hoji designed these around an 88 mount.

**DudeLebowSKI** · 01-24-2013, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by D(C)

87 if you like a more traditional feel. 88 if you still like to charge but want something a bit looser and more slarvy. I tried both spots and found the difference to be dramatic. Personally I probably wouldn't go 86 as these have a very precise sweet spot and are quite mount-sensitive. Bear in mind Hoji designed these around an 88 mount.

Hoji now skis them at 87.

**foreal** · 01-24-2013, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

How are you storing them? I bought a pair of 196s from GS and it looked like the owner had stored them with a Voile strap or something around the tip and the tail because that's where the contact points were. I wouldn't say they had camber underfoot, but it was some weird triple camber, Praxis Concept/Moment Deathwish thing going on. No idea how they ski compared to my 186 Rens. I was able to get some of the rocker back by stacking some textbooks on the ski and leaving them sit for a few weeks. I wrote this problem off as an issue with the way they were stored, but maybe it's bigger than that?

I wonder if this issue is isolated to the 196? That extra few inches doesn't seem like it would make a huge difference in the scheme of things...

Storing base to base (without a strap) and standing against wall. Just wish the tail rocker was still there.

**bestskieratsnowbird** · 01-24-2013, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

How are you storing them? I bought a pair of 196s from GS and it looked like the owner had stored them with a Voile strap or something around the tip and the tail because that's where the contact points were. I wouldn't say they had camber underfoot, but it was some weird triple camber, Praxis Concept/Moment Deathwish thing going on. No idea how they ski compared to my 186 Rens. I was able to get some of the rocker back by stacking some textbooks on the ski and leaving them sit for a few weeks. I wrote this problem off as an issue with the way they were stored, but maybe it's bigger than that?

I wonder if this issue is isolated to the 196? That extra few inches doesn't seem like it would make a huge difference in the scheme of things...

i've got 95s and do not have this issue. i bet they still retardedly awesome though!

**auvgeek** · 01-24-2013, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by foreal

Storing base to base (without a strap) and standing against wall. Just wish the tail rocker was still there.

You could try what I did: put them between two chairs and put something heavy in the middle. Just a thought.

The skis were an xmas gift to my brother, so I can't comment on how they compare to my 186s, which have held up just fine for the past 20-30 days.

**ulty_guy** · 01-24-2013, 02:08 PM

Yeah very excited, guess I'll give 87 a go then. Definitely that they're going to be a bit sensitive to mounting.

Of course the next new Ren owner dilemma is Dukes, 916s or p18s, but it's a good dilemma to have :-D

**DudeLebowSKI** · 01-24-2013, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by ulty_guy

Yeah very excited, guess I'll give 87 a go then. Definitely that they're going to be a bit sensitive to mounting.

Of course the next new Ren owner dilemma is Dukes, 916s or p18s, but it's a good dilemma to have :-D

If you are coming off the RC112 and Explosive and are a "rear mount guy", the mounting point on Renegade is going to feel super weird. I'd start with 86 which is still within the recommended range and then you have room to go all the way up to 88 once you 'figure them out'.

**DudeLebowSKI** · 01-24-2013, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

I wrote this problem off as an issue with the way they were stored, but maybe it's bigger than that?
.

I'd guess they were left wet on a roof top ski rack for a period of time.

**Skidog** · 01-24-2013, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by DudeLebowSKI

I'd guess they were left wet on a roof top ski rack for a period of time.

and you shouldnt be able to do this to a ski without it changing its characteristics? Seems odd to me that this would change simply with the pressure of a ski roof rack. i'd also imagine (though i have not handled the ren) that the ski rack wouldnt really be near the tail rocker more just in front and behind the bindings.

**DudeLebowSKI** · 01-24-2013, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Skidog

and you shouldnt be able to do this to a ski without it changing its characteristics? Seems odd to me that this would change simply with the pressure of a ski roof rack. i'd also imagine (though i have not handled the ren) that the ski rack wouldnt really be near the tail rocker more just in front and behind the bindings.

Well my thinking was that the Ren is full reverse camber so that any clamping done closer to the ends of the ski are going to create opposite tension on the core of the ski. Pair that with the fully exposed wood core sidewalls and the 4FRNT recommendation to dry the skis off after each use...my guess still stands.

**ulty_guy** · 01-24-2013, 03:10 PM

Yeah, I've accepted they'll be a bit weird but want to challenge myself a bit so excited bout them. My biggest worry is gonna be 'delicate' turns on hard crappy snow which tend to pop up round Cham.

**auvgeek** · 01-24-2013, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by ulty_guy

My biggest worry is gonna be 'delicate' turns on hard crappy snow which tend to pop up round Cham.

The Rens do this quite well, actually, IME. The centered mount allows you to get over the tips, and lack of sidecut makes the edge hold quite good.

I wouldn't worry about it till you've skied them.

**flatland** · 01-26-2013, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by foreal

I don't want to cunt up this thread but...

After 20 or so days my beloved Rens have lost a good amount of tip rocker and developed camber underfoot - basically eliminating any tail rocker. Last years 196. To me, they now ski/feel/look more like a 193 EHP than the slarvy fully rockered ski they initally were. Anyone else experience anything of this sort?

Will post pics when I have some time.

Just had a look at my 196s and I've got something similar happening. It's very minimal but there's definitely less tail rocker and a tiny bit of camber when they're held together in the middle. Picked them up at the end of last year have maybe 30 days on them. Always stored inside bases together leaning against the wall. No straps used.

**auvgeek** · 01-26-2013, 07:52 PM

Just had a look at my pair of 186 before I skied them today (first time I looked at their rocker profile this season). foreal -- you're right, same thing is happening on mine (11.12 vintage). Compared them to a newer pair today (same vintage, but fewer days on them), and it's quite obvious the differences in the rocker profile. No camber yet, but just a huge flat spot along most of the length. But there is a definite place where the bases meet near the tip and tail; similar to the pair of used 196 I bought and described above, though less dramatic. I bought them new, so I know it's not the way they were stored or anything. Always brought them inside after skiing and never had them on a roof rack (just a ski box). Prolly 20-30 days on them.

Anybody have this issue on the owl topsheet version? Heard they were holding their shape a bit better coming off the press, IIRC...?

**kc_7777** · 01-26-2013, 08:22 PM

Yikes,

Not cool.

Maybe this is why 4FRNT is bringing in the semi-cap/sidewall for the Rens next year?

Glad I bought the Hojis vs Rens at this point.

K

**flatland** · 01-26-2013, 08:53 PM

It's been too gradual for me I actually notice a difference in the way they ski but visually it's noticeable. Just noticed today at kicking horse so I've got them in a garage over night to see if they look better when they're warm in the am.