10/11 Tahoe Weather, Conditions, Stoke, and What's Up Thread

[guermo]

i think it has more to do with no avy control requirements than being in nevada.

i don't think so.... cars have to chain up in CA on 267 with an inch of snow, with checkpoints everywhere to enforce. No such thing in Nevada and they do ALOT of avy control on the summit via those remote controlled avy bomb launchers up there.

[powdork]

checkpoints on brockway summit? really?
they don't even bother at the bottom of carson pass any more, although i have seen them set up for folks leaving the wood on weekends.

[QuikR12]

What are the chances we have something to ski on next weekend? pipe dream?

[LightRanger]

checkpoints on brockway summit? really?

I've definitely hit one at least once. But it was in the middle of a rather large storm (December 04-January 05)... aka the Hall of Fame basom thread storm cycle.

[guermo]

checkpoints on brockway summit? really?
they don't even bother at the bottom of carson pass any more, although i have seen them set up for folks leaving the wood on weekends.

Huh interesting north vs south shore info. It's been years since i've hit south shore much but the most nazi chain control checkpoints I ever remember were at the 89 / 88 intersection below carson pass. Back in '93 I was in a buddy's truck with pretty bald tires in a large storm and we got stopped there. The CHP told us we were in R3 chain control and since we didn't have chains on our 4wd, nor did we have them, they needed to tow us away! We let them tow the car to carson and we hitchhiked to kirkwood to ski, only to be stuck up to our armpits in the 10' fresh on the flat lower half of kirkwood. Interesting day, but the top half was good! Yes, HEAVY chain requirements on I-80 forever now... seriously 1" will cause R1 requirements. Must be I-80.

[powdork]

they still put up chain controls pretty quickly, they just don't have the checkpoints. when i first got to tahoe they had the checkpoints at 88/89. Then they had them forever under stevens peak. last year i saw them twice while leaving kirkwood, and never at stevens. they're still a regular sight at the bottom of echo, and that's a good thing.

[LightRanger]

they're still a regular sight at the bottom of echo, and that's a good thing.

Word. That's a sketchy drive in a good storm, even with chains on the usual dumbasses...

[powdork]

where they need them is kingsbury, but it wouldn't help. when i lived up there every good storm resulted in a crash, almost always near the beginning of the storm when all the tourons were trying to make it down the hill before they needed chains.

[bodywhomper]

i was always under the impression in CA that the frequency of checkpoints was related to caltrans budget stuff.

imo, CA needs to rethink what is and is not allowable for R1 and R2 conditions, and make the vehicle requirements related to severe storm rated tires rather than awd/4wd.

looking forward to some wet weather and tacky trails!

[powdork]

i was always under the impression in CA that the frequency of checkpoints was related to caltrans budget stuff.

which is what makes 267 so retarded.

[LightRanger]

i was always under the impression in CA that the frequency of checkpoints was related to caltrans budget stuff.

There's at least some correlation.

I know for a fact that once the state budget hit the skids, (what? five years ago?) they started to close 80 more often because they just didn't have the resources (i.e. plow drivers) to keep it open--especially overnight.

[Flexon Phil]

speaking of chains....suggestions for a Jetta (w/4 snow) and a Yukon?

[cat in january]

I used chains for the first time when I was out last winter for a month so very far from an expert. I got by with the cable ones, but if I was living out there I would want the real diamond 8 chain pattern ones. Also the rubber bungy cord thingy with the hooks I found made me feel more confident they were on securely. You only need chains for the front wheels on the Jetta.

[bodywhomper]

speaking of chains....suggestions for a Jetta (w/4 snow) and a Yukon?

i suggest a "4motion" decal bought off ebay or from a dealership for the jetta and the equivalent for the yukon. i've only used 'real' chains or cable chains and both have been adequate for me when needed. whatever you get, get some insulated work gloves for putting on and taking off. specifically, cable chains are brutal on cold hands/fingers and will wreck nylon-type ski gloves.

on the subject of caltrans road clearing, i vaguely remember hearing several years back that they were closing down plow operations for most of their maintenance stations earlier in the spring, meaning that they had skeleton staff/equipment for roadway clearing during later spring storms.

[splat]

speaking of chains....suggestions for a Jetta (w/4 snow) and a Yukon?

Def the "4motion" decal for the Jetta and you don't need chains for a 4x4 if you come up from the NV side. Nevadans are considered less 'flatlander tourists on a holiday weekend' than Californians, though I would beg to differ, given the number of imbeciles doing 10 mph on the Reno freeways the minute it snows.



Weatherwise.....what's up with these clouds?

[powdork]

Weatherwise.....what's up with these clouds?

Warm air near the Earth's surface tends to absorb moisture in the form of invisible water vapor from bodies of water, moist ground, and from plants. Warm moisture-laden air is inherently unstable and tends to rise. Clouds are formed when the air is lifted and cooled to saturation temperature which is also known as the dewpoint temperature. The altitude of the saturation level determines the altitude of the cloud base. The vapor begins to condense onto airborne hygroscopic particles like dust and salt from sea spray. This process of cooling and condensation continues until the air achieves temperature equilibrium with the surrounding atmosphere and stops rising. The altitude of equilibrium tends to determine the altitude of the cloud tops, although if the vertical air currents have become very strong, momentum can push the tops to even higher altitudes. Colder air at surface level absorbs less moisture than warm air and tends to be more stable. This type of airmass can become more moist and unstable over water, but otherwise usually requires an external lifting agent like an active front or area of low pressure to trigger cloud formation.

Small water droplets form at lower altitudes below the freezing level and ice crystals at high altitudes. In some cases, high clouds may be partly composed of supercooled water droplets. The droplets and crystals are typically about 0.01 mm (0.00039 in) in diameter. The most common agents of upward motion causing condensation are convective lift caused by daytime solar heating of the air at surface level, frontal lift that forces a warmer air mass to rise over top of a cooler airmass, and orographic lift of the air over mountains. When air rises, it expands as the pressure decreases. This process expends energy which causes the air to cool. When surrounded by billions of other droplets or crystals they become visible as clouds. In the absence of condensation nuclei, the air becomes supersaturated and the formation of cloud is inhibited.


That clear it up for ya? Or is it still cloudy?

[liv2ski]

where they need them is kingsbury, but it wouldn't help. when i lived up there every good storm resulted in a crash, almost always near the beginning of the storm when all the tourons were trying to make it down the hill before they needed chains.

PD, I have a time share at the top of Kingsbury and have always caught that week with clear weather, so I was wondering if you thought an AWD car with really good AS Tires would need chains from either the 395 side or the SLT side?
I always carry them for the CHP, but have yet to ever use them, but on that incline I am thinking I would. Your thoughts?

[PBR and POW = FUN]

Yeah, both states are a little too trigger-happy on the switch for the chain control signs and lights. I've hit that 267 one before, just after the Flatstar light, if you're headed towards the Lake. Most of the time the roads are dry when they're out there with the check...WTF. I've also crossed Rose many times when the chain lights are turned on, but the roads are only wet and its full sun outside...WTF.

The best place to use chains is the road up to Alpine Shreadows. On busy days (every weekend day) they send someone down to near the end of the road, just uphill from the R.Ranch. His job is to stop you on a snowy, steep, and busy little knoll on the road to let you know parking is full, but his real job is to cause everyone to stop on a steep slippery hill for really no good reason, and then cause 25 minutes of entertainment watching every soccer mom or teenager from SacCity trying to start moving again after they speak with him.

I think a shovel is a better thing to have in the car than chains anyway. I had rode Homewood's Ellis Chair up and then hiked back into some sweet spots one day this past winter. Nothing real steep, but real long tree runs through old open forests. It was snowing pretty good too, and I was pushing waste deep pow the whole hike. Time I got back to my car that evening I was exhausted. I was almost damn home but fell asleep going around the traffic circle on Pioneer Trail (pointless circle in Truckee)!! I just drove right off the side, into a stand of sparse trees across from the old Forest Service offices. That shit woke me up. I hadn't taken the time to renew my registration (or license) either, and I was like oh damn, Ive got to get this back on the road and normal looking before a cop sees me in here. I started with my tracks into the trees, and ended up digging what was essentially a dirt road back out to the circle. I did all this with my little avy shovel I had with me, and I did it all in like 20 minutes before a cop came. A few non-police people came around the circle while I was furiously digging and looked at me like I was insane. Chains wouldn't have done shit for me then. A shovel is also nice to carry because if someone else would have had one instead of chains, they could have stopped and help me dig out.

[LightRanger]

speaking of chains....suggestions for a Jetta (w/4 snow) and a Yukon?

For the Jetta:
http://www.tirechain.com/DIAMONDSTYLECARCHAINS.htm

Carry the same ones for the Yukon. They'll close the road before they have you put them on.

I've never even been asked on 80 (old Explorer, now lifted Cherokee), but I've heard they ask on other roads.

[Ottime]

Looks like Rose is finally getting some love. All this chain talk... what about the snow?

SIMILAR TO THE HIGH SIERRA SNOWFALL EARLIER THIS MONTH...SNOW
LEVELS WILL REMAIN ABOVE 8000 TO 8500 FEET THROUGH THIS EVENT.
THERE IS A GOOD POSSIBILITY THAT SIERRA PASSES NEAR AND ABOVE 8500
FEET WILL RECEIVE SNOWFALL WHICH COULD CAUSE TRAVEL DIFFICULTIES
SUNDAY THROUGH MONDAY. PASSES OF CONCERN INCLUDE THE MOUNT ROSE
SUMMIT...EBBETTS PASS...MONITOR PASS...SONORA PASS...AND TIOGA
PASS.

[splat]

Warm air near the Earth's surface tends to absorb moisture in the form of invisible water vapor from bodies of water, moist ground, and from plants. Warm moisture-laden air is inherently unstable and tends to rise. Clouds are formed when the air is lifted and cooled to saturation temperature which is also known as the dewpoint temperature. The altitude of the saturation level determines the altitude of the cloud base. The vapor begins to condense onto airborne hygroscopic particles like dust and salt from sea spray. This process of cooling and condensation continues until the air achieves temperature equilibrium with the surrounding atmosphere and stops rising. The altitude of equilibrium tends to determine the altitude of the cloud tops, although if the vertical air currents have become very strong, momentum can push the tops to even higher altitudes. Colder air at surface level absorbs less moisture than warm air and tends to be more stable. This type of airmass can become more moist and unstable over water, but otherwise usually requires an external lifting agent like an active front or area of low pressure to trigger cloud formation.

Small water droplets form at lower altitudes below the freezing level and ice crystals at high altitudes. In some cases, high clouds may be partly composed of supercooled water droplets. The droplets and crystals are typically about 0.01 mm (0.00039 in) in diameter. The most common agents of upward motion causing condensation are convective lift caused by daytime solar heating of the air at surface level, frontal lift that forces a warmer air mass to rise over top of a cooler airmass, and orographic lift of the air over mountains. When air rises, it expands as the pressure decreases. This process expends energy which causes the air to cool. When surrounded by billions of other droplets or crystals they become visible as clouds. In the absence of condensation nuclei, the air becomes supersaturated and the formation of cloud is inhibited.


That clear it up for ya? Or is it still cloudy?

Hazy. The word is haaazzzzyy.

[RaccoonFace]

...though I would beg to differ, given the number of imbeciles doing 10 mph on the Reno freeways the minute it snows.

They have to be CA transplants. I don't remember it being this bad 10 years ago. I wouldn't care so much if they would just do 10 mph in the slow lane and let me do 70 in the fast lane. For some reason they feel that they have to do it 3 across.

okbye

[powdork]

PD, I have a time share at the top of Kingsbury and have always caught that week with clear weather, so I was wondering if you thought an AWD car with really good AS Tires would need chains from either the 395 side or the SLT side?
I always carry them for the CHP, but have yet to ever use them, but on that incline I am thinking I would. Your thoughts?

you will be fine w/o chains as long as your tires are good (meaning not bald yet). the first two years in Tahoe I drove a honda prelude manual w/no clutch. since then, i haven't used chains in 14 years (and i'll go drive around in the worst of storms, just because it's fun).*
just remember, 4X4, awd, 4motion, etc, do not help at all going downhill. chains can help you break, but they don't help you turn.
and they suck. alot.





* show of hands - when it's totally puking at night, who likes to get really high then go drive down a dark straight road with the high beams on and watch the snowflakes coming at the windshield?

[RaccoonFace]

Looks like Rose is finally getting some love. All this chain talk... what about the snow?

SAWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just ordered skins on thursday, so I may be able to make the inaugural Rose poach with the rest of the cool kids this year.

okbye

[Zeppelinskier]

snow for rose? ill be there