Getting better at photography...

[jce338]

So if i don't participate in this exercise I will never get better at photography?


Seems like a good plan if you want to make a living as a photog...but also seems like it would take 6 hours a day for the average person, and is therefore not so realistic...unless you want to seem like the crazy-cat-lady of amateur photographers...

I do consider these and other questions about each photo that I snap, and I also discuss it with buddies that are out shooting with me for the day...

However, I also:

have a PhD to do,
have a girlfriend,
have friends,
ski occasionally,
mountainbike occasionally,
play the guitar like a mothafukin riot,
and have the strenuous upkeep of my daily TGR average post count to consider,

so in order to incorporate this type of regime as the only way to take better photos of my buddies riding or my niece playing with a toy, I'll pass...and spend the time actually making the memories instead of trying to perfect the process of momorexing the memories that I'm photographing.



Also I have posted shots in the Photo of the Day thread welcoming critique (which I love because it is the easiest way to consider the things that will make me a better photog) and have received none, which means one or many of several things, including: my photos are perfect, just live with the fact that I am the best photog on the planet, or nobody cares enough to comment and so while taking photos is fun to me, it is for me and my own purpose (like everything in life) and I will progress at my own pace associated with the importance I place on photography in my life at a given point...


Again, if I was aiming to be a pro photog and make a living at it, I would have a very different outlook.


IMHO of course.

quoted for the god damn truth. I was about to type up a response to the thread and saw this, which pretty much summarizes everything constructive that I wanted to say. So i'll say some nonconstructive shit too.

The fact that you all can get so buthurt over one image is a good sign - not for you as people - but for you as photographer. If making great images is what makes you happy then that's fine and dandy. You can argue about proper exposure, checking your histogram, waiting for afternoon light, and using 3 strobes vs 4. When it comes down to it, it's about what motivates YOU to shoot.

Personally, the thing I like most about photography is making friends and family (and me) happy by capturing memories. A memory frozen in time... "savoring life 1/100th of a second at a time." All I want is my technical ability to allow me a decent chance to capture images worth sharing (with the occasional banger of course.) But like iscariot says, once the photography gets in the way of enjoying or making those memories - what the fuck's the point?

oh and Lonnie...you're watermark has bother me for the longest time. Sick images with a trashy watermark. I actually think it draws attention away from the photos sometimes. x3 for making a new one.

[mtcham]

OK, I'm getting to the point where asking a simple question ........

I'm working on a website and initially watermarked my images across the bottom and yes I used my name and the word photography (quite pretentious of me). My pop ups are only 700x700. Too small to worry about, but then I noticed one can left click the popup and download it in a much larger size.
So, is a watermark a necessity and what makes a good one. I must have always been focused on Lonnies pictures instead of his watermark. And are they even worth doing as they could be chopped out in seconds if someone wanted your image.

[Lonnie]

Ok, Ok. The tribe has spoken. I have a crisp Five Dollar bill for the first person to make me a new one...

[Tye 1on]

Personally, the thing I like most about photography is making friends and family (and me) happy by capturing memories. A memory frozen in time... "savoring life 1/100th of a second at a time." All I want is my technical ability to allow me a decent chance to capture images worth sharing (with the occasional banger of course.) But like iscariot says, once the photography gets in the way of enjoying or making those memories - what the fuck's the point?

Yep. Which is why I take maybe a few hundred pics a year. Year. Don't want to stop what fun i'm having to record it, with the attendant theory that if i really like what/where i'm doing, i'll just have to go back again.

Which pretty much fully explains why i shouldn't be posting in this thread!!!!

[gholman12]

Ok, Ok. The tribe has spoken. I have a crisp Five Dollar bill for the first person to make me a new one...

Well Mr. Lonnie, what's your last name? Do you like pretty swirly things or block letters? Do you like capital letters or lower case letters? What's your social security number? Do you want it to say photography at the end, or just your name/initials? Got an example of one you like, and one you don't like?

That'll do to start.

[eug]

But I do practice as often as possible...

Probably not 3 hours every day though... Same for us mortals with cameras, as often as possible and more likely than not working on happy snaps at kids parties and ball games.

PS: That would be a project: ski every day/shoot 36 every day!

[bklyn]

You guys are cracking me up for arguing against practice as a sure method to improve skills.

It's too hard... wahh!
It's too much... wahh!
I don't have time... wahh!
I don't really want it... wahh!
It won't matter anyway... wahh!
I don't want to be a pro... wahh!

So don't! Do not do anything different. Do not try.... and.... do not expect results.

Probably not 3 hours every day though... Same for us mortals with cameras, as often as possible and more likely than not working on happy snaps at kids parties and ball games.

PS: That would be a project: ski every day/shoot 36 every day!

Approx 100 days of skiing per year... maybe 6 hours a day if I subtract some for eating /lazyiness in the am/ tram lines .... divide by 365...

Damn, falling short averaging 2 hours per day.

[LeeLau]

Not sure why this seems to be such a controversial suggestion. I'm reminded of Malcolm Gladwell's maxim that becoming an expert takes lots and lots of practise and repeated things/motions/processes - ie the Beatles performing live, or tennis players robotically practising serves etc. The suggestion in this thread seems like a useful guideline perhaps tailored to one's own personal circumstance. Too bad the discussion has now somewhat degraded

[eug]

100 days of skiing per year... maybe 6 hours a day if I subtract some for eating /lazyiness in the am/ tram lines .... divide by 365...

Do you also make a point of skiing on shittiest skis you own from the 80s?

[gholman12]

Do you also make a point of skiing on shittiest skis you own from the 80s?

I hear that's the only way to improve.

[iscariot]

Not sure why this seems to be such a controversial suggestion. I'm reminded of Malcolm Gladwell's maxim that becoming an expert takes lots and lots of practise and repeated things/motions/processes - ie the Beatles performing live, or tennis players robotically practising serves etc. The suggestion in this thread seems like a useful guideline perhaps tailored to one's own personal circumstance. Too bad the discussion has now somewhat degraded

Which is exactly my point. None of us on this board are in danger of becoming the "Beatles" of photography. If you want to become the Beatles of photography, then this suggestion is likely a good idea. And you likely should have started this type of program at age 10, so you could get a full ride university scholarship from National Geographic, like a 15 year old girl I know.


My contention is that this type of regime is not practical for someone who is not a pro. Additionally, bklyn's assertion that this is the only way to get better and that we are all just making excuses is overly simplistic, and simplistically idiotic...

There are many different methods that work for many different people, the methods that typically work best for individuals are methods that they can practically accomplish and can stick with, while showing some measure of improvement.

In that context, bklyn's op and assertion of excuses is ridiculous.




What bkln is saying is akin to saying: in order to get better at playing hockey you must shoot 600 pucks a day.

While that may work for a pro like crosby, it is highly impractical for the average person. Additionally, there is a shit tonne of talent, intuition, luck and timing, as well as hard work and repetition, that goes into being good at anything, particularly at the Beatles level to which Lee eluded...

[Hugh Conway]

I hear that's the only way to improve.

Non-metal edged wooden skis with leather boots are the only way to improve. Something so crappy that people look at you in at amazement you managed to get down a slope and gloss over just how bad a descent you made.

No, Lee, not controversial, just sort of .... irrelevant as iscariot pointed out when many of the people here are looking to make better use of their existing limited time to improve their photography - hence asking for critiques to get outside input so they can do something different and get better results quicker.

Some people respond to people yelling at them to "ski better" (which is much of the advice in this forum, and this thread - hi truth!) others don't and can use actual technical advice of a simple tip to focus on (of which bklyn has provided many in the past)

[shirk]

6 weeks. You will be better at it and it will weed out those that don't have a passion for it.

I think the haters here are worried they'll weed themselves out. Realize they don't really need anything more than a point'n'shoot and snap family/friends/trips.

[Hugh Conway]

I think the haters here are worried they'll weed themselves out. Realize they don't really need anything more than a point'n'shoot and snap family/friends/trips.

more unintentional humor from the in crowd - keep producing stoke you guys

[Lonnie]

No, Lee, not controversial, just sort of .... irrelevant as iscariot pointed out when many of the people here are looking to make better use of their existing limited time to improve their photography - hence asking for critiques to get outside input so they can do something different and get better results quicker.

People are saying "I don't have the time to do that", yet we all seem to find enough time per day to read/post at tgr....

[dipstik]

You guys are cracking me up for arguing against practice as a sure method to improve skills.

It's too hard... wahh!
It's too much... wahh!
I don't have time... wahh!
I don't really want it... wahh!
It won't matter anyway... wahh!
I don't want to be a pro... wahh!

So don't! Do not do anything different. Do not try.... and.... do not expect results.

That's a pretty bullshit post, bklyn. How did you expect people to react? You gave a bunch of unsubstantiated advice that nobody asked for. If you stand by your method, sure would love to see some results.

[schindlerpiste]

Bullshit!
GREAT thread topic, Tracy.
Next week, my 11 year old starts his first photography course. WHo knows whether he has the passion, or not. With your initial advise, I wonder whether he really needs the course.

Some of the responses here are typical of this board...but you knew that already.

[aepeak]

been following this thread.

well im ready to jump in ... i have a wavering opinion on this subject. if you want to become better shoot more. but because photography is not my priority while high school and running are i sort of saw no point in 36 photos because honestly 36 photos is hard to come by within 1 or 2 hours. but because i have to take a break from running for these 3 days i decided to take a shot at this challenge. you might remember my mediocre shots and my amateur skills as well as my stupid questions and inputs but i have slowly progressed. my ugly star trails to my shots at glacier np to my voyage in nyc and finally some work im going to post. you can see progression because of my practice. do it if you want. but ignore the advice if you feel the need to not heed. i say if you are on a slow weekend or a relaxing vacation, take the time to go out and shoot, even if its for 30 minutes. use that 30 minutes with a goal in mind and just focus on one subject. heck, today i just headed outside my house with some goals in mind and just started to pick the subject apart. for the gazebo shot on my flickr, i even took out the ladder to get some better angles. you can choose to be proactive or not.






more: http://www.flickr.com/photos/52976040@N02/

[LeeLau]

Hugh and Iscariot - I see where you're both coming from. But at the same time, I saw tracy's suggestion (although it was painted as a bright-line rule) as another practise mechanism that I or anyone else could use. Maybe the offence taken is because it was put forward as dogma? Just putting the point that maybe advice offered on TGR (mine included btw) should be taken by the person reading the post and tailored to their personal circumstance.

[kidwoo]

Maybe the offence taken is because it was put forward as dogma?

You're ignoring the obvious though. If brklyn is so god damn creative, why the hell was her first response a penis joke? Talk about common. I think she needs to go out and on the fly, make 36 jokes per day in the most unaccommodating situations in the most awkward social circles. Do it with a speech impediment. Do it with one eye looking off to the left. After six weeks, I think she'll see improvement.......or weed herself out of the pool.

[bklyn]

For those that decide to shoot more photos, with a focused objective and on a regular schedule, I applaud your decision to try it out. For those that know in an instant that this regimen is not for them and cannot be adapted to fit their lifestyle or goals, I applaud your knowledge of self.

For those wondering: Why "36" pictures?

It's a holdover from the film days where 36 completed your roll. You'd develop 1 contact sheet for each day of shooting and analyze it. Seeing them all together was good way to get a general view of how you met your objective. For today's digital photographer, it is a wonderful way to set a satisfactory limit. You can't go overboard. A person who modifies this number to 25, 18, 10 or x per day isn't making a mistake -the key is to be consistent for a time period you set. (unless they're using film and aren't willing to process a short roll, then you will miss out on the habit of reviewing the work while you still remember your intent clearly) One a day or less than 10 may be too little to get a skills boost, though YMMV.

For those wondering: Why shoot with a shitty camera?

It is a way to remove yourself from the gear. Forget about settings. Forget about lenses. Forget about post processing. Work on seeing. Involve yourself in all elements included in the frame. If you can't zoom, you must move your feet. If you can't remove that power line in post, you'll get accustomed to standing tall or crouching down to eliminate it (or make it a more compelling part of the story). If your subject is a person, you can cultivate talking to them and making them comfortable. An unassuming (old? cheap) camera has a distinct advantage of being less intimidating. Work on these skills and you'll spend less time with post work, see improvement in composition and approaching people/animals/children.

For those wondering: Why study for 1/2 an hour?

Glean just enough to get inspired by a technique, or approach and then try it. Or choose to try the complete opposite. Limit this time so you don't get analysis paralysis. You don't want to copy anything literally, just get a sprinkle of something different to fertilize your creative center. (you will need some creative help to keep going) You're free to come back to a topic later and explore it in depth.


For those wondering: Why 6 weeks?

Get the habit ingrained. Change the duration if you will, but the old saw is 21 days to make a habit. Don't shortchange yourself. Make time for the things you love to do.

For those saying: Why are they no pictures from you in this thread?

This thread was to encourage you to take and explore your own photography, your own craft. It's not about my photos or what I've shot (or what anyone else has shot), but about you and what you can do. Explore your own potential and you will be pleasantly surprised.

I was challenged by a friend whose work I admired to shoot a roll a day (purposefully), take notes on all the settings, process and review them. Not only was I "an anti-film-digital-is-better-gear-geek"; I, like many of you, balked at the seemingly daunting task of all that "work". It soon became easy, it will for you also if you try. I did get better. The rest I made up based on my experiences with that experiment.

Have fun trying it or have fun jeering in this thread. As long as you're enjoying how you spend your time, "it's all good".

[arild]

For those that decide to shoot more photos, with a focused objective and on a regular schedule, I applaud your decision to try it out. For those that know in an instant that this regimen is not for them and cannot be adapted to fit their lifestyle or goals, I applaud your knowledge of self.

For those wondering: Why "36" pictures?

It's a holdover from the film days where 36 completed your roll. You'd develop 1 contact sheet for each day of shooting and analyze it. Seeing them all together was good way to get a general view of how you met your objective. For today's digital photographer, it is a wonderful way to set a satisfactory limit. You can't go overboard. A person who modifies this number to 25, 18, 10 or x per day isn't making a mistake -the key is to be consistent for a time period you set. (unless they're using film and aren't willing to process a short roll, then you will miss out on the habit of reviewing the work while you still remember your intent clearly) One a day or less than 10 may be too little to get a skills boost, though YMMV.

For those wondering: Why shoot with a shitty camera?

It is a way to remove yourself from the gear. Forget about settings. Forget about lenses. Forget about post processing. Work on seeing. Involve yourself in all elements included in the frame. If you can't zoom, you must move your feet. If you can't remove that power line in post, you'll get accustomed to standing tall or crouching down to eliminate it (or make it a more compelling part of the story). If your subject is a person, you can cultivate talking to them and making them comfortable. An unassuming (old? cheap) camera has a distinct advantage of being less intimidating. Work on these skills and you'll spend less time with post work, see improvement in composition and approaching people/animals/children.

For those wondering: Why study for 1/2 an hour?

Glean just enough to get inspired by a technique, or approach and then try it. Or choose to try the complete opposite. Limit this time so you don't get analysis paralysis. You don't want to copy anything literally, just get a sprinkle of something different to fertilize your creative center. (you will need some creative help to keep going) You're free to come back to a topic later and explore it in depth.


For those wondering: Why 6 weeks?

Get the habit ingrained. Change the duration if you will, but the old saw is 21 days to make a habit. Don't shortchange yourself. Make time for the things you love to do.

For those saying: Why are they no pictures from you in this thread?

This thread was to encourage you to take and explore your own photography, your own craft. It's not about my photos or what I've shot (or what anyone else has shot), but about you and what you can do. Explore your own potential and you will be pleasantly surprised.

I was challenged by a friend whose work I admired to shoot a roll a day (purposefully), take notes on all the settings, process and review them. Not only was I "an anti-film-digital-is-better-gear-geek"; I, like many of you, balked at the seemingly daunting task of all that "work". It soon became easy, it will for you also if you try. I did get better. The rest I made up based on my experiences with that experiment.

Have fun trying it or have fun jeering in this thread. As long as you're enjoying how you spend your time, "it's all good".

Awesome advice, Bklyn! My 36 photos a day regime starts monday. Will review my own progress in four weeks, and see how far I´ve come. Thanks for the "unsubstantiated advice" no one asked for, but some of us can find great use in.

[eug]

Some of the responses here are typical of this board...but you knew that already.

Yours is one of them... Why is it that just because people don't drink the coolaid right away they are automatically haters?

bklyn your advice and commentary on photos are spot on. Please continue to critique even though most of us are not worthy... Think of instructors at Snowbird and Alta that teach people to ski powder, same question every day blah blah blah. Telling clients to go away and ski 3 hours a day for a few years is probably not a viable coaching approach.

[khakis]

Next week, my 11 year old starts his first photography course. WHo knows whether he has the passion, or not. With your initial advise, I wonder whether he really needs the course.

I think (hope) that bklyn's advice assumes a basic technical background...the class should put your kid on the express route to that better than a bunch of trial and error shots every day for 6 weeks.

[Noonan]

bklyn - thank you for the unsolicited advice. I always appreciate your insight on here.

Shooting more and relying less on technology seems like sound advice to me.

When I am shooting more I am definitely more creative and I tend to take the time to look at photos with more open eyes. I've never done the 36 pictures a day routine, I probably should - I'm confidant it would improve my photography.

I have come learn that I am more creative when I have a subject - one of the reasons I like the contests here - it gives me something to focus on and work through to end with something outside of the proverbial box.

Ditching the reliance on technology leads to better photos. Personally, I move to fast when taking pictures. I had the opportunity to take a weekend landscape photography seminar with one of the guys here in the Colorado Springs. Yes, we spent time on exposure, depth of field and photoshop, etc. but out biggest focus was on composition. We spent lots of time setting each shot up, moving the camera an inch to the left, etc. So bklyn's advice about working with a focused subject but looking at it with different light, settings and angles is spot on.

Will I jump right into bklyn's photo bootcamp? That I don't know if I can find the time to dedicate to do it properly. I do know that if I made the effort to take 36 pictures a day over the next 6 weeks that after 1,512 pictures and analysis I would be a much improved photographer.